List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[Scodog10]

Had to have a giggle on two fronts:

The Suns stuffed up majorly, which I would've assumed they were OK with had it not been for Greenwood's tweet before he shifted.

And secondly because North have clearly just plucked a player simply because he's gettable and free, not because he's apart of their list strategy or anything. When did a genuine premiership contender (or someone bound to contend in the next 2-4 years) ever just recruit a player of the sake of recruiting a player?

This Pokemon "gotta catch em all" attitude is what has St Kilda treading water/going backwards.

Greenwood might be a decent stop-gap for Cunnington if he were a few years younger, but they'll both be ready to hang them up very soon.

The one that made the most sense and I would have have said was savvy is Richmond. They’ll give it one last crack with this group and desperately need some reinforcements in the midfield, but North making the play is overly opportunistic to me.

 

[well left]

On Greenwood my main interest is in the vibe that it’s a coup for North to get him as a free hit. I’m personally not investing $500k pa into an injured 30yo mid range player when we have Moore, JDG and Maynard OOC post 2022, but it seems there’s plenty out there that would. He’ll be best 22 there no doubt and probably handy for them we’d just have been mad to go there.

Couldn’t agree more. He’ll be good for North and I applaud them for the get but he’s certainly not one for us. I like him but the priority had to be signing at least Moore and Maynard.


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[well left]

Yeah I agree. Maybe some insurance for Cunnington?

He’ll definitely play and be more than insurance but outside of Cunnington I think the midfield is pretty young.

2-3 years of Cunnington and Greenwood showing the way might fast track the development of JHF, Powell, Phillips etc and allow Simpson and Thomas to be more attacking.

I’m guessing that’s the thought anyway. He won’t be there for their next flag tilt but he can help set them up for it a la Vandenberg at Hawks.


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[Babylove]

The lesson in this whole Greenwood debacle is you don’t get cute when it comes to the strategy of delisting and redrafting players. It’s not a new strategy, we’re doing it with Chugg. But you don’t pick players your top players you want to retain because you think other clubs won’t want because of age or contracted remuneration levels. You pick the fringe guys that you can live other clubs recruiting with the commitment to re-draft should they still be available. Don’t forget they still need to get Rory Thompson

16

Rory Thompson

Age

33

Ht

200cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.6

2star

K

5.7

2star

HB

3.9

3star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

126.3

2star

No current season stats available

D

11.0

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

4.2

4star

M

4.6

5star

T

3.4

5star

past every other club multiple times because after their pick three they don’t have any draft picks until the end of the draft.

 

[Scodog10]

The lesson in this whole Greenwood debacle is you don’t get cute when it comes to the strategy of delisting and redrafting players. It’s not a new strategy, we’re doing it with Chugg. But you don’t pick players your top players you want to retain because you think other clubs won’t want because of age or contracted remuneration levels. You pick the fringe guys that you can live other clubs recruiting with the commitment to re-draft should they still be available. Don’t forget they still need to get Rory Thompson past every other club multiple times because after their pick three they don’t have any draft picks until the end of the draft.

Bookmark this. You and I are more likely to be drafted than Thompson is to be poached. At 31 by Rd 1 with his injury profile (he hasn’t played at senior level since 2018) you can completely rule out opposition interest.

 

[RobJD]

The lesson in this whole Greenwood debacle is you don’t get cute when it comes to the strategy of delisting and redrafting players. It’s not a new strategy, we’re doing it with Chugg. But you don’t pick players your top players you want to retain because you think other clubs won’t want because of age or contracted remuneration levels. You pick the fringe guys that you can live other clubs recruiting with the commitment to re-draft should they still be available. Don’t forget they still need to get Rory Thompson past every other club multiple times because after their pick three they don’t have any draft picks until the end of the draft.

Makes sense for the GCS to trade back into this draft rather than simply taking the last two picks - makes it even more of a stuff up losing Greenwood, but at least they will increase their ability to recruit for a need (although their greatest need might be in list management!)

 

[Quicky]

If the AFL were to “give up” they’re still contractually obliged to have an 18 team competition (19 or perhaps even 20 with the next tv rights deal) so the franchise would just relocate and all else would stay the same. It’s a 2 year process though so players would make their own calls on whether they stick with the club or not.

On Greenwood my main interest is in the vibe that it’s a coup for North to get him as a free hit. I’m personally not investing $500k pa into an injured 30yo mid range player when we have Moore, JDG and Maynard OOC post 2022, but it seems there’s plenty out there that would. He’ll be best 22 there no doubt and probably handy for them we’d just have been mad to go there.

It's not just cap space to re-sign players. It's also cap space to attack free agency. It's minutes denied to a developing midfield group in Macrae/McInnes/N Daicos/Poulter. I think we're far better off retaining our quality players, targeting free agency and taking a short term hit in midfield while we get our next generation of mids to 40 games for long term gains.

 

[Kirby]

Why in the hell would we want Greenwood anyway? He is literally the slowest midfielder I've ever seen (putting aside his age and wage issues). Our midfield is slow enough already.

It seems like a total waste for North to pick him up too.

 

[Crazy Tails]

Looks like Darcy Wilmot is the player we are trying to get with the dogs pick 23 if we happen to do that

Interesting; he and Chesser are the ones I would like us to target if we can get back into that 20-25 range (and they are still on the board).

As an aside can someone explain to me how we get our hands on that pick 23 from the Dogs without it being consumed on Daicos? I just can't work out how we would work it. Two of our future 3rds for 23? Reckon that only works if Daicos gets bid on first and then we do a live trade before the Darcy bid comes in. Even then feel like the Dogs would be short on points.

 

[Crazy Tails]

I wouldn't be surprised if the GC were happy to dangle him out there. Frees up some much needed space for King etc.
Who knows, maybe even gets them a seat at the table for a play for that free agent JDG?

Campbell didn't seem too fussed by it. It sounded as if they were unsure if they would even extend his contract past the next year.
I don't think it was an 'accident' they were unprepared for at all. Possibly even set up.

Yeah I thought this too. The guy will be 30yo before the start of next season and coming off an ACL. He's a good player but he's probably not in the Suns side if/when they are ever challenging for a flag. If they can replace him with a Dumont (4 years younger and cheaper) or Charlie Constable (better list fit) a lot cheaper they are probably not much worse off. Not sure Greenwood is in Norths next push for a flag either but each to their own.

 

[Helena4556]

Interesting; he and Chesser are the ones I would like us to target if we can get back into that 20-25 range (and they are still on the board).

As an aside can someone explain to me how we get our hands on that pick 23 from the Dogs without it being consumed on Daicos? I just can't work out how we would work it. Two of our future 3rds for 23? Reckon that only works if Daicos gets bid on first and then we do a live trade before the Darcy bid comes in. Even then feel like the Dogs would be short on points.

If we are going down this path then between them GW and Fly will have spoken to all parties already and have a plan of action worked out. It could all go south as easily as it might work but that's the perils of live trading.
Besides that pick 23 isn't the holy grail, we still keep our 2X3rds so no harm, no fail.

 

[unplugged]

Obviously if Daicos is still on the board at GCS' pick they will bid on him.

With Greenwood departing I'd be very surprised now if they went past Hobbs.

 

[Babylove]

Bookmark this. You and I are more likely to be drafted than Thompson is to be poached. At 31 by Rd 1 with his injury profile (he hasn’t played at senior level since 2018) you can completely rule out opposition interest.

It is a lot less likely, but there are clubs that could do with a key back who may see Rory as a cheap stop gap and worth taking the risk on Rory despite his bad run with injuries. I mean Carlton just unexpectedly lost Liam Jones to retirement of the the vaccination mandates, who happens to play the same position as Rory.

Don't get me wrong Rory isn't as bad a decision to try a delist & re-draft scenario as Greenwood, it wouldn't be as devastating if someone else picked him up. But the principle point remains the same. The lesson here is you don't gamble with best 22 (when fit) players, because you think their contract, age or injury situations will discourage other clubs to recruit them out from under you, because if the players are talented enough there'll be someone who will take the opportunity to recruit them.

 

[Jen2310]

It is a lot less likely, but there are clubs that could do with a key back who may see Rory as a cheap stop gap and worth taking the risk on Rory despite his bad run with injuries. I mean Carlton just unexpectedly lost Liam Jones to retirement of the the vaccination mandates, who happens to play the same position as Rory.

Don't get me wrong Rory isn't as bad a decision to try a delist & re-draft scenario as Greenwood, it wouldn't be as devastating if someone else picked him up. But the principle point remains the same. The lesson here is you don't gamble with best 22 (when fit) players, because you think their contract, age or injury situations will discourage other clubs to recruit them out from under you, because if the players are talented enough there'll be someone who will take the opportunity to recruit them.

Rory has had 2 ACLs in a row. Hasn’t played a senior game in 3 years. Not even Carlton are taking that gamble. They could find someone fitter in the state league.

We did the same thing to Dunn. Delisted then put him on the rookie list. Nobody else came for him.


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[manicpie]

Interesting; he and Chesser are the ones I would like us to target if we can get back into that 20-25 range (and they are still on the board).

As an aside can someone explain to me how we get our hands on that pick 23 from the Dogs without it being consumed on Daicos? I just can't work out how we would work it. Two of our future 3rds for 23? Reckon that only works if Daicos gets bid on first and then we do a live trade before the Darcy bid comes in. Even then feel like the Dogs would be short on points.

I think we have to make that trade straight after the daicos bid, ahh, what am I talking about, I got no idea

 

[manicpie]

Why in the hell would we want Greenwood anyway? He is literally the slowest midfielder I've ever seen (putting aside his age and wage issues). Our midfield is slow enough already.

It seems like a total waste for North to pick him up too.

Big mistake ny Norf, they obviously think that Greenwood would help develop their young midfield, however, playing him ahead of a youngster only delays their development. Strange move by Norf. That also tells me they will bid on Daicos at 1

 

[Gone Critical]

Yeah I thought this too. The guy will be 30yo before the start of next season and coming off an ACL. He's a good player but he's probably not in the Suns side if/when they are ever challenging for a flag. If they can replace him with a Dumont (4 years younger and cheaper) or Charlie Constable (better list fit) a lot cheaper they are probably not much worse off. Not sure Greenwood is in Norths next push for a flag either but each to their own.

To be fair his was an MCL anot an ACL so he will be ready to go for start of 2021. I reckon probably a good fit for NM as they have a young inexperienced midfield and having a big body who is AFL competent wont hurt. We have Adams,Pendles, Sidey, De Goey, Elliott, Crisp so plenty of mid experience , our hole is in the younger part of the list making Greenwood not a need. I also assume their cap is in much better position to accomodate Greenwood for a few seasons where it would be a struggle for us.

 

[jatsad]

I personally don't think the Suns here erred here.

They needed to vacate a list spot. They delisted an expendable player given his age and cost.
If no one takes him, fine, they redraft him.
If he goes, replace him with a Constable, who is exactly the same type of player, younger and cheaper.

 

[Harry O]

Cal Twomey has updated his rankings this morning. Not a mock draft but he has speculated the Suns might be the more likely to bid on Daicos.
so we will get him at pick 3 (or 4 if Either bid on Darcy first)
Which should enable us to live trade 36 out and then trade it back in after matching

 

[Gone Critical]

Big mistake ny Norf, they obviously think that Greenwood would help develop their young midfield, however, playing him ahead of a youngster only delays their development. Strange move by Norf. That also tells me they will bid on Daicos at 1

Its a much more nuanced argument than saying bringing in an established mid will delay the development of your youngsters.

Especially in NM position with a young list development needs careful management. A strong experienced mid can help set the tone for the youngsters and show them how to play and prepare. It can protect them from being exposed too early and thus learning survival mode rather than good habits. For some youngsters VFL time is very important in their development so delaying AFL exposure can be as much a benefit as a problem

I am sure Noble and the NM coaches considered all those factors before signing Greenwood. On the surface it looks a good pick up for them. I think they will see a pretty strong lift in the season ahead as I reckon they are getting their rebuild right.

 

[partypie]

I personally don't think the Suns here erred here.

They needed to vacate a list spot. They delisted an expendable player given his age and cost.
If no one takes him, fine, they redraft him.
If he goes, replace him with a Constable, who is exactly the same type of player, younger and cheaper.

Let's not get carried away, Constable isn't a patch on Greenwood as the latter can actually get around the ground and has more than one gear in his running.

Greenwood is one of the more underrated mids going around in the competition for mine (probably due to playing mostly out of sight, out of mind at the Suns), similar to how Touk is acknowledged as being good when he is really and out and out gun.

Aside from being a tackling machine Greenwood is also a monster at the stoppages with high clearance and contested possession numbers and just keeps showing up and playing his role every week pretty much without fail. He would have made a very solid addition to most (if not all) of the other 17 teams in the competition.

 

[jatsad]

Let's not get carried away, Constable isn't a patch on Greenwood as the latter can actually get around the ground and has more than one gear in his running.

Greenwood is one of the more underrated mids going around in the competition for mine (probably due to playing mostly out of sight, out of mind at the Suns), similar to how Touk is acknowledged as being good when he is really and out and out gun.

Must disagree. Greenwood is good but I hardly think he can move around the ground. He is not quick and has injury concerns as well. Constable, from what I've seen, is very similar and only requires a chance. Way to young to be of any value to the handbaggers.

 

[Rusty Beam]

You’d have to think the Suns will now definitely have the cash to hold onto their young guys like King, Rankine etc if they can convince them to stay.

Greenwood and Brodie out this year would clear about $1m based on their grossly bloated contracts.

 

[sr36]

I personally don't think the Suns here erred here.

They needed to vacate a list spot. They delisted an expendable player given his age and cost.
If no one takes him, fine, they redraft him.
If he goes, replace him with a Constable, who is exactly the same type of player, younger and cheaper.

I agree. People are talking as though he was randomly selected, which he clearly wouldn't have been. They didn't want to delist anyone, but chose Greenwood, assumedly as they considered him more expendable than others. The AFL insist on them delisting blokes. It's one of the AFLs dumbest rules.

 

[partypie]

Must disagree. Greenwood is good but I hardly think he can move around the ground. He is not quick and has injury concerns as well. Constable, from what I've seen, is very similar and only requires a chance. Way to young to be of any value to the handbaggers.

You clearly haven't seen much of Greenwood if you think that's the case, or that the two are even comparable. Constable is a decent VFL standard accumulator but he's nowhere near the level of Greenwood who gets it done as the big body against AFL-standard opposition virtually every single week.