List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[Gone Critical]

I think he’s not a bad money ball selection and will cost virtually nothing.

Having watched him a bit I reckon he has the ability to play to a similar level as Roughie. Not a world beater by any means, but a lock down defender who is capable of taking the bigger key forwards. Also capable of taking an occasional intercept mark with his kicking probably superior.

It will be important for us as it will free up Howe, Moore and Murphy to come across and intercept mark.

Unfortunately given the types players in Adelaide’s backline I think they were expecting too much from him.

He’ll be competing with Dean, and Kelly to a lesser extent, for that role, but there is an opportunity there. At worst he will be great depth.

As i said i know little but a mature player who has had so little impact over 8 seasons sounds more delisted FA than somone you trade for. As for comparing him to Roughie that is a stretch. Even when he dropped out of favour at the Dogs he ppayed 12 games in that season. He was a flag player who hasd seasons of solid AFL games behind him. He was proven

Frampton is unproven after 8 seasons having been coached by multiple different coaching groups. Must be long odds to make it. Do we really want to use a list space on him

 

[Everybody Panic]

I confess to knowing little about Frampton but on the surface it seems he has had plenty of time to make a go of AFL footy but hasnt.

8 seasons, 2 clubs, 24 games. Been moved back since 2021 and that doesnt seem to have clicked for him by selection.

Can anyone think of someone who has had such a long time in the AFL then becoming a player?

He has always looked average as a forward but has the height and athleticism to be given more time. As a intercepting defender he looked AFL quality in the games I saw him play. He is actually a very good kick as well. Now I feel like he is a bit like Crouch, in that Adelaide already decided that he wasn't wanted anymore, so he was only going to play if they didn't have any other options.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

I think he’s not a bad money ball selection and will cost virtually nothing.

Having watched him a bit I reckon he has the ability to play to a similar level as Roughie. Not a world beater by any means, but a lock down defender who is capable of taking the bigger key forwards. Also capable of taking an occasional intercept mark with his kicking probably superior.

It will be important for us as it will free up Howe, Moore and Murphy to come across and intercept mark.

Unfortunately given the types players in Adelaide’s backline I think they were expecting too much from him.

He’ll be competing with Dean, and Kelly to a lesser extent, for that role, but there is an opportunity there. At worst he will be great depth.

Frampton would be competing with Dean, Kelly (if not delisted) and McMahon in my opinion for that lockdown spot. All have all show something in the seconds. We just need one of them to come good and play some serious time in the firsts next year, although if two of them show some promise we can send Moore forward more often. I really like the chances of at least one of them being very competitive next year. Frampton according to the Adelaide supporters was more an intercepting back then a lock down back, although he as not spent too much time in the backline so maybe we see him more the Roughead replacement. He seams to play like Moore more so then Roughead, however who knows in our backline with a better structure he may be able to lockdown better then he did in Adelaides.

 

[Carlthetruth]

The old 'Moneyball' reference and completely out of context. What is Frampton's skill ie on base percentage that we have identified that all the other clubs have missed? Moneyball, often quoted rarely read.

 

[manicpie]

I confess to knowing little about Frampton but on the surface it seems he has had plenty of time to make a go of AFL footy but hasnt.

8 seasons, 2 clubs, 24 games. Been moved back since 2021 and that doesnt seem to have clicked for him by selection.

Can anyone think of someone who has had such a long time in the AFL then becoming a player?

There is also the question, why has he not been delisted after 8 seasons? His form in the SANFL has been brilliant. Maybe we've been into him for most of the year and Adelaide know he's leaving. Who knows, but a 200cm defender who kicks beautifully and marks very well is exactly what we need in terms of balancing our list

 

[Apex36]

Richmond: They will beat us to McStay?

lolwut?

 

[Carlthetruth]

I’m all on board in regards to getting Tom Mitchell especially if we lose Grundy.

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When you compare the pair, Mitchell is an upgrade on Grundy. Grundy I’d a clearance player. Apart from the Hitouts, Mitchell dominates Grundy elsewhere.

If we are planning to go with “marking ruckman” rather than a clearance ruckman, Tom Mitchell is the perfect midfielder.

I've compared the pair and Reg is a ruckman and Mitchell is not so it's pretty simple this one, he's not an upgrade.

 

[Rusty Beam]

Frampton according to the Adelaide supporters was more an intercepting back then a lock down

.

That’s what I was getting at when I mentioned that Adelaide appeared to be asking too much of him.

I think he will do better playing a more simple role. Similar to Roughie.

We already have significant intercepting ability and rebound from the other players in our backline.

 

[WeedsMullet84]

Frampton would be competing with Dean, Kelly (if not delisted) and McMahon in my opinion for that lockdown spot. All have all show something in the seconds. We just need one of them to come good and play some serious time in the firsts next year, although if two of them show some promise we can send Moore forward more often. I really like the chances of at least one of them being very competitive next year. Frampton according to the Adelaide supporters was more an intercepting back then a lock down back, although he as not spent too much time in the backline so maybe we see him more the Roughead replacement. He seams to play like Moore more so then Roughead, however who knows in our backline with a better structure he may be able to lockdown better then he did in Adelaides.

Since being dropped after Rd 6 he has gone back to the SANFL and developed his KPD skills very well, whilst still maintaining his intercepting, DE%, and ability to get the ball going forward. Currently playing SANFL finals.

Will be a good pickup for basically zero cost.

 

[gouki88]

As i said i know little but a mature player who has had so little impact over 8 seasons sounds more delisted FA than somone you trade for. As for comparing him to Roughie that is a stretch. Even when he dropped out of favour at the Dogs he ppayed 12 games in that season. He was a flag player who hasd seasons of solid AFL games behind him. He was proven

Frampton is unproven after 8 seasons having been coached by multiple different coaching groups. Must be long odds to make it. Do we really want to use a list space on him

He was playing well this season, in fact had a couple of really excellent games. Adelaide wanted to persevere with their younger (yet worse) KPDs, like Butts and Murray.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

Since being dropped after Rd 6 he has gone back to the SANFL and developed his KPD skills very well, whilst still maintaining his intercepting, DE%, and ability to get the ball going forward. Currently playing SANFL finals.

Will be a good pickup for basically zero cost.

Im curious about Matt Crouch. What would Adelaide supporters think he is worth in a trade? What sort cash would he be on? Do you think Adelaide would be open to paying some of his contract if they could to free up some of ours for a better draft pick?

 

[cakewalk06]

We don’t need him up against Gawn. That’s the point. Cameron & Cox take care of Gawn, whilst Mitchell dominates as midfielder.

Grundy couldn’t take care of Gawn around the ground. He beat him in Hitouts and broke even on clearances. He would lose the contested marking.

We will have Cameron & Cox to compete in contested marking and Hitouts. Mitchell will replace Grundys clearance domination.

I think you are missing the point that with Grundy, we have an EXTRA clearance option. Unless Mitchell is rucking as well he is not replacing Grundy's potential clearances.

 

[WeedsMullet84]

He was playing well this season, in fact had a couple of really excellent games. Adelaide wanted to persevere with their younger (yet worse) KPDs, like Butts and Murray.

Correct. Their developing KPD qualities (Butts/Murray) are probably more of a known quantity than Frampton, but I would have absolutely have persisted with Frampton as a KPD going into next season if it was up to me.

His games against Port, Bulldogs and Richmond (all wins) were very good.

 

[gouki88]

I’m all on board in regards to getting Tom Mitchell especially if we lose Grundy.

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When you compare the pair, Mitchell is an upgrade on Grundy. Grundy I’d a clearance player. Apart from the Hitouts, Mitchell dominates Grundy elsewhere.

If we are planning to go with “marking ruckman” rather than a clearance ruckman, Tom Mitchell is the perfect midfielder.

You're not seriously comparing a rover to a ruckman, and claiming said rover's statistical dominance as some victory, are you?

 

[domus]

I didn't realise we had already signed him. I thought he was just a free agency potential. Oh dear!

Thank god you are not in charge of our recruiting department.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

You're not seriously comparing a rover to a ruckman, and claiming said rover's statistical dominance as some victory, are you?

You’re missing the point. The point being that Grundy is a clearance first ruckman (it also happens to be what we are smashed at when he’s not around).

If we were to lose Grundy - a clearance first player- we need to replace him with a player who does the same thing.

Grundys #1 trait is that he’s a contested clearance bull. By playing Cameron and Cox, we have moved away from our ruckman needing to be a contested bull. We are expecting our ruckman to be more “traditional”.

Best way to describe it would be in basketball terms.

Shaq absolutely dominated the paint. However, so does Ja Morant (at times). 2 completely different players, but they played a similar role just in a different style.

 

[Couch Coach]

Correct. Their developing KPD qualities (Butts/Murray) are probably more of a known quantity than Frampton, but I would have absolutely have persisted with Frampton as a KPD going into next season if it was up to me.

His games against Port, Bulldogs and Richmond (all wins) were very good.

Frampton's main problem seems to be between his ears.
Can play very well one week and then drop the bundle the next week.
At 25 years old hopefully he has started to mature a bit and become more consistant if he is locked into one role rather than playing all over the place.

Drafted at Pick 84 in 2014
Traded from Port to Adelaide for future 4th Pick

 

[WeedsMullet84]

Im curious about Matt Crouch. What would Adelaide supporters think he is worth in a trade? What sort cash would he be on? Do you think Adelaide would be open to paying some of his contract if they could to free up some of ours for a better draft pick?

Had hip surgery in the 2020 off-season and spent the 2021 season on the injury list with consistent groin complaints after the surgery.

End of 2021 season also happened to be the season he came into Restricted Free Agency. Obviously with his injury he had no suitors/offers with other clubs, and the Crows signed him on a 2 year contract on what I would imagine is a fairly mid-level salary.

Coming into 2022 it became clear he'd rehabbed his injury very well, but by this stage our younger midfield players had started developing without him.

Crouch is an inside mid and nothing else. We were just far too similar with Laird/Keays and Crouch all in there at the same time, and Laird/keays certainly have better 2-way running qualities. Crouch was sent back to SANFL to work on his defensive running, and was getting 40+ possessions before the season ended. He looked a lot less like a crab in the SANFL and appeared to have worked on his defence pretty well.

What's he worth with a draft pick? My guess is Crows will offer to pay his entire salary next year, which should attract a better draft pick than otherwise. We certainly have the cap space to do so.

If paying his entire salary I can see a late 2nd/early 3rd being the Pick

Might be a few inside mids on the market though (eg Mitchell) so this might also dilute his trade worth, but he is still only 27.

Would suit a team that just needs a fairly vanilla inside mid that gets the ball out, tackles prolifically on the inside but that has other players that can cover for his lack of defensive work.

 

[Carlthetruth]

You’re missing the point. The point being that Grundy is a clearance first ruckman (it also happens to be what we are smashed at when he’s not around).

If we were to lose Grundy - a clearance first player- we need to replace him with a player who does the same thing.

Grundys #1 trait is that he’s a contested clearance bull. By playing Cameron and Cox, we have moved away from our ruckman needing to be a contested bull. We are expecting our ruckman to be more “traditional”.

Best way to describe it would be in basketball terms.

Shaq absolutely dominated the paint. However, so does Ja Morant (at times). 2 completely different players, but they played a similar role just in a different style.

So we need to replace a ruckman who is good at clearances with a ruckman who is good at clearances. And heaven forbid the cod ordinary Mitchell comes in which mid does he replace? You haven't thought this through, Mitchell cannot replace Reg not even in an alternative universe.

 

[gouki88]

You’re missing the point. The point being that Grundy is a clearance first ruckman (it also happens to be what we are smashed at when he’s not around).

If we were to lose Grundy - a clearance first player- we need to replace him with a player who does the same thing.

Grundys #1 trait is that he’s a contested clearance bull. By playing Cameron and Cox, we have moved away from our ruckman needing to be a contested bull. We are expecting our ruckman to be more “traditional”.

Best way to describe it would be in basketball terms.

Shaq absolutely dominated the paint. However, so does Ja Morant (at times). 2 completely different players, but they played a similar role just in a different style.

That is a shocking analogy mate. It doesn't work in basketball terms either, for a variety of reasons, much the same as it doesn't work in football terms.

Grundy's #1 trait is ruckwork, and contested midfield work relative to being a ruckman

 

[manicpie]

So we need to replace a ruckman who is good at clearances with a ruckman who is good at clearances. And heaven forbid the cod ordinary Mitchell comes in which mid does he replace? You haven't thought this through, Mitchell cannot replace Reg not even in an alternative universe.

I think he means replacing a clearance ruckman with a clearance mid

 

[Chrispiesssss]

That is a shocking analogy mate. It doesn't work in basketball terms either, for a variety of reasons, much the same as it doesn't work in football terms.

Grundy's #1 trait is ruckwork, and contested midfield work relative to being a ruckman

Yeah, but his “ruckwork” isn’t something we value hence we are moving towards Cameron and Cox who’s ruckwork is okay at best.

Contested midfield work will be replaced by Mitchell.

Grundy (900k) vs Cameron & Mitchell

Hitouts: Grundy wins

Midfieldclearances, tackles& CPs) Mitchell wins
Contested mark: Cameron

You can’t think about this in linear manner.

We are moving away from a clearance first ruckman towards a marking ruckman who “competes in the ruck”.

Mitchell can fill the Grundy size midfield hole.

 

[Kings_Gambit]

lolwut?

I hope McStay doesn’t make it

 

[BlackNWhiteFreightTrain]

SEN just said Jacob Hopper

2

Jacob Hopper

Age

27

Ht

187cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.0

5star

K

9.9

4star

HB

11.1

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

4.5

5star

CL

4.3

5star

D

17.6

4star

K

8.8

4star

HB

8.9

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

4.6

5star

CL

4.0

5star

D

18.6

5star

K

8.4

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.8

5star

CL

3.4

5star

most likely to go to Hawthorn. We want him

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

Hawks delist Flip and Callow.

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