List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[swoop42]

I would have thought we wouldn't be bringing in McStay if our cap was a "disaster" or being linked to the likes of a Taranto or Mitchell.

 

[VinnieB]

You say that you’re wrong most of the time and then you also say that “most people are wrong most of the time”…….so does that mean that most people are actually right most of the time?

You might have just torn a hole in the space-time continuum!


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I should have used quotation marks. Apologies to the teachers out there.

 

[Quicky]

Grundy/Jackson/Logue
Melb/freo/Coll

Exchange of picks and salary

Heard it’s a distinct possibility. I do like Logue and will watch him carefully Saturday. He would have been a handy Cameron match up last week that is for sure.

This is one of the few scenarios discussed where I would be comfortable losing Grundy. It's rare for those kinds of trades to happen but the last one involved Collingwood and Melbourne also. It worked out well for us.

 

[VinnieB]

You might upset some people here - not me though - I'm not in that category

I did say ‘most’ not all

I would have thought we wouldn't be bringing in McStay if our cap was a "disaster" or being linked to the likes of a Taranto or Mitchell.

Sam Manure has as much an idea as I do about our salary cap.

 

[Quicky]

It just pisses me off we are in this position that we are having to throw our best ruck away in years

Does my head in

We don't have to though. If we do it's by choice. I'd be expecting something good back our way if it happens.

 

[LuckyLee]

I should have used quotation marks. Apologies to the teachers out there.

Nothing to do with quotation marks - I was trying to make a joke about you being wrong about most people being wrong….never mind….I was a bit too cryptic!


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[brockbruiser]

Losing Grundy and Henry for McStay 700k and Bobby Hill is acceptable to you? With the players available this trade period, that's an enormous failure. Other clubs will be improving next year while Collingwood at best will be slightly worse with ageing stars not being replaced and young talent leaving or just mediocre.

1. You don't know that Henry is leaving because of McStay and Hill, they both play very different roles. Ash Johnson is the one who has taken Henrys role and he deserves to be there. There are plenty of reasons he might be leaving but it's not for McStay.
2. McStay $700k is a long way off from the high $500ks that's being reported.
3. You need some perspective when viewing losing Grundy for McStay and Hill. The Fact is there is only ever 1 ruck in every best 22, with a 2nd ruck/forward option typically. Cameron has done an amazing job, so all of a sudden we have this $1m player, playing a role that could be done by Cameron on much less money. Now we have some obvious gaps on our list. KPB, KPF and small forward. McStay and Hill will fill areas we desperately need and best of all we will likely get a first round pick for Grundy, which gets us back into the draft. If you can't see how trading Grundy balances our list then i'm afraid you should just let GW and the experts do their job.
4. Trading Grundy is a sign of moving away from huge contracts which we have foolishly made in the past to keep big name players. If you want to win premierships you need to balance out the salary on your list. No more huge long term contracts that create future fiscal problems.

 

[Apex36]

Gawn's forward work is worse than Cox's. Yes, Gawn has impacted games as a forward but Cox has a more accurate kick. A few games this year, I felt as if Gawn was going to unleash but his inaccuracy cost him.

So in other words, Gawn’s forward work is in fact, not worse than Cox’s. Just his goal kicking is. In pretty much every other aspect he’s superior. Leading patterns, ability to get separation and marking inside 50 you’d take Gawn every day of the week. If he trains as a forward over the preseason and can manage to clean up his set shots, he’ll be legit.

 

[ThePhantom777]

It just pisses me off we are in this position that we are having to throw our best ruck away in years

Does my head in

Same. The mismanagement of our salary cap was always going to hurt us. The money Stephenson and Phillips were on beggars belief.

Losing Grundy's contract will hopefully be the last bit of pain to get us back on track. Grundy should be on $750-800k. If he kicked more goals, took more marks or was more of a tall presence around the ground $1m would have been fine.

 

[Apex36]

He thought he could sneak that one in…with nobody noticing.
It‘s a Fox news tactic.
Place something yourself…then another employee/show on Fox runs with it…as a fact.

As terrible as his posting is, I’m pretty sure he meant $700k of cap space, not McStay at $700k.

 

[Lings of Geelong]

Grundy/Jackson/Logue...get it done!

Henry and Hawthorn's 3rd for Geelong's 1st.

Bulldogs' 3rd for Mitchell.

Richmond's 3rd for Hill.

Poulter for Frampton.

In: McStay, Logue, Mitchell, Hill, Frampton, our 1st, Geelong 1st

Out: Grundy, Henry, Poulter, TBrown, CBrown, Madgen, Chugg

Just need someone to cook the books a little...

 

[magpies42]

Geez you guys are going to be disappointed when you see what the Grundy trade actually is. Just prepare yourselves for less than van Rooyen and a first, thats all I ask.

If that’s the case then I’d argue he should stay or you take on the full salary. There is no doubting his quality, hence the reported interest from 5 clubs.

If we are paying the reported 300k, then you’re talking about a 600-700k player…there aren’t too many better than Grundy at that price. So I think what you’ve stated there in return is well under what I would accept.

 

[gouki88]

So in other words, Gawn’s forward work is in fact, not worse than Cox’s. Just his goal kicking is. In pretty much every other aspect he’s superior. Leading patterns, ability to get separation and marking inside 50 you’d take Gawn every day of the week. If he trains as a forward over the preseason and can manage to clean up his set shots, he’ll be legit.

I'm not sure that he has the ability to clean up his set shot routine with how tall and old he is. His technique is incredibly ingrained as someone who is nearly 31. He also doesn't generate a heap of scoring opportunities in general. 2.5 in the last 9 games, with plenty of time spent up forward. 7 scores in 9 games is pretty poor for someone who spends a lot of time forward.

For reference, Darcy Cameron has kicked 7.3 in his last 9 games despite much lower TOG%. Gawn as a forward just does not seem natural at all

 

[magpies42]

Grundy/Jackson/Logue...get it done!

Henry and Hawthorn's 3rd for Geelong's 1st.

Bulldogs' 3rd for Mitchell.

Richmond's 3rd for Hill.

Poulter for Frampton.

In: McStay, Logue, Mitchell, Hill, Frampton, our 1st, Geelong 1st

Out: Grundy, Henry, Poulter, TBrown, CBrown, Madgen, Chugg

Just need someone to cook the books a little...

Why are we trading Henry for a pick that will be lower than what we got him for?

We’ve spent two years developing him, given him 25 games experience and proven that he can play at the level. He’s a far less risky prospect now, than when we picked him up! The kid has star potential, he just needs to fill out over the next couple of seasons.

From that perspective I’d be after Geelongs first and second or he can go to the draft.

 

[Apex36]

I'm not sure that he has the ability to clean up his set shot routine with how tall and old he is. His technique is incredibly ingrained as someone who is nearly 31. He also doesn't generate a heap of scoring opportunities in general. 2.5 in the last 9 games, with plenty of time spent up forward. 7 scores in 9 games is pretty poor for someone who spends a lot of time forward.

For reference, Darcy Cameron has kicked 7.3 in his last 9 games despite much lower TOG%. Gawn as a forward just does not seem natural at all

Fair enough. I don’t watch a lot of Melbourne games, just basing it on what I saw against us. He looked dangerous all night in our last encounter and if he’d kicked straight then Melbourne would have won.

 

[gouki88]

Fair enough. I don’t watch a lot of Melbourne games, just basing it on what I saw against us. He looked dangerous all night in our last encounter and if he’d kicked straight then Melbourne would have won.

He definitely has his moments, I just think it takes away from their strongest attributes. We saw Jackson get completely punked in the ruck by Hickey, and I think it was a real mistake to not move Gawn there.

 

[Apex36]

He definitely has his moments, I just think it takes away from their strongest attributes. We saw Jackson get completely punked in the ruck by Hickey, and I think it was a real mistake to not move Gawn there.

Yeah I have to admit that was a strange move given Gawns relative strength as a ruck vs Jackson.

 

[jathanas]

Another two busts in the first round from Hine (Macrae and Henry) and Wright is looking like Ned Guy 2.0 more every day (Richmond gets both Taranto and Hopper?), Hawthorn knew he was past it.

Taranto would be a great acquisition but not at any cost. Overpaying is a mistake that the club has made in the past that thankfully won't be repeated.

I know you love the side as much as everyone else here but it's hard to see that sometimes.

BTW the young ones are developing just fine. Smell the roses mate, it has been an amazing season; no need for the doom.

 

[Prexm]

Grundy/Jackson/Logue...get it done!

Henry and Hawthorn's 3rd for Geelong's 1st.

Bulldogs' 3rd for Mitchell.

Richmond's 3rd for Hill.

Poulter for Frampton.

In: McStay, Logue, Mitchell, Hill, Frampton, our 1st, Geelong 1st

Out: Grundy, Henry, Poulter, TBrown, CBrown, Madgen, Chugg

Just need someone to cook the books a little...

My only change to this would be to get more for Henry. Keep Hawthorn’s third and even upgrade it to Geelongs 2nd as part of a Henry trade and maybe get someone who slides. Kelly might go if we bring all those talls in.

 

[Kings_Gambit]

There is one article under the Fox banner saying we have a cap disaster but having us into everyone

 

[sideswipe]

There is one article under the Fox banner saying we have a cap disaster but having is into everyone

It will definitely be a disaster if we get all the players we are meant to be targeting. Plus our list will be at about 50.

 

[SquirrelGrrripp]

So I think if we aren’t adequately compensated by Geelong, then we let him go to the draft. If you’re going to set a standard then you go all the way. Teach players and other clubs all in the one transaction.

I reckon he wants to head to Geelong ultimately and is just playing funny buggers with us to justify his departure.

Quite possibly mate.. That might be the right call at the end of the day and we just have to cut our losses to prove a point.

Conversely, Is it counterintuitive to knock back a (hypothetical) really good offer from Geelong and cut of our nose to spite our face?


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[LuckyLee]

Same. The mismanagement of our salary cap was always going to hurt us. The money Stephenson and Phillips were on beggars belief.

Losing Grundy's contract will hopefully be the last bit of pain to get us back on track. Grundy should be on $750-800k. If he kicked more goals, took more marks or was more of a tall presence around the ground $1m would have been fine.

Ruckmen are crash-and-bash work horses. They should NEVER be the highest paid players. It ought to be a Golden Rule of list management. We choked.

The elite money should be reserved only for match-winning key forwards and Brownlow-worthy midfielders. No exceptions.


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[gouki88]

It will definitely be a disaster if we get all the players we are meant to be targeting. Plus our list will be at about 50.

Having a half dozen more players than anyone else would probably strain the cap

 

[sr36]

It will definitely be a disaster if we get all the players we are meant to be targeting. Plus our list will be at about 50.

Wright stopped being Hawthorn's list manager at the end of 2017. Has anyone told him that they reduced list sizes as a consequence of covid?