List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[Mr Meeseeks]

He still might have some value next year (3rd rounder and I dont think he is a free agent). But I think Mitchell might be desperate to play elsewhere (due to reduced midfield time) and this is Hawthorns last chance to get something half decent for him. I still think they will stick there noses up at a 3rd rounder this year.

Yeah they will not take a 3rd rounder for him, I doubt it anyway.

That said, Mitchell has not played him in that position all year with an eye to the future so all signs point to Mitchell not having him as part of his plans going forward.

He is a clearance machine and has had to carry our crap midfield almost on his own since signing, put him in a decent side and he will feed outside players all day long, he's a pig. Im not sure why his value is so low but it is, so its an interesting one...

Might be a good fit for the Pies given poor old Tay-tay just cant get it going?

I dont think Im biased when I say he is a far, far superior player to Fiorini and Setterfield though! I can understand why old mate Rob was laughed off the Hawthorn board for saying that...

 

[jonbe54]

Yeah they will not take a 3rd rounder for him, I doubt it anyway.

That said, Mitchell has not played him in that position all year with an eye to the future so all signs point to Mitchell not having him as part of his plans going forward.

He is a clearance machine and has had to carry our crap midfield almost on his own since signing, put him in a decent side and he will feed outside players all day long, he's a pig. Im not sure why his value is so low but it is, so its an interesting one...

Might be a good fit for the Pies given poor old Tay-tay just cant get it going?

I dont think Im biased when I say he is a far, far superior player to Fiorini and Setterfield though! I can understand why old mate Rob was laughed off the Hawthorn board for saying that...

Interesting insights

By the way on Tay tay

He has been suffering with groin issues for a while now but there is no other in and under type on the list and hasn't been for a while so he plays really before he is totally healed.

 

[Carlthetruth]

Spend some time today on the Hawks board before getting booted off for suggesting a 3rd rounder for Mitchell. The general theme there was that it would require a pick around 25 and we pay 100% of his contract. If that's the club's position too, I can see why we're chasing Fiorini!

The general theme should be after they've been trying to dump him since last year with no takers is a pick in th 70's and they pay half his salary, so a hard rubbish style pick up for the club that is prepared to take him on.

 

[JLC]

This is a joke right? Beams second time around was a complete farce, Degoey as he is right now, is better than Beams was when he decided he wanted to come back

That was my point re Stocker.

Second time around we knew about his mental health issues and still went ahead.

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Interesting insights

By the way on Tay tay

He has been suffering with groin issues for a while now but there is no other in and under type on the list and hasn't been for a while so he plays really before he is totally healed.

Im guessing thats why the connection is being made between Collingwood and Mitchell? They are very similar players.

Collingwoods resurgence this year has suprised me a bit but there is no doubt they should be contending for the near future, Mitchell has 3 or 4 years left at his best IMO, his skillset doesn't wane with age as much as other players... Seems a good fit for mine

 

[JuniorB]

Yeah they will not take a 3rd rounder for him, I doubt it anyway.

That said, Mitchell has not played him in that position all year with an eye to the future so all signs point to Mitchell not having him as part of his plans going forward.

He is a clearance machine and has had to carry our crap midfield almost on his own since signing, put him in a decent side and he will feed outside players all day long, he's a pig. Im not sure why his value is so low but it is, so its an interesting one...

Might be a good fit for the Pies given poor old Tay-tay just cant get it going?

I dont think Im biased when I say he is a far, far superior player to Fiorini and Setterfield though! I can understand why old mate Rob was laughed off the Hawthorn board for saying that...

It would hinge on what Hawthorn are prepared to let him go for.
If they want a 2nd round pick, we ain't got one, and if they want us to pick up the full tab, it might only be a 3rd, of which we have 3.
His age might be another factor.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

It would hinge on what Hawthorn are prepared to let him go for.
If they want a 2nd round pick, we ain't got one, and if they want us to pick up the full tab, it might only be a 3rd, of which we have 3.
His age might be another factor.

This might be the kicker. Hawks are struggling to meet the minimum salary cap, especially if Gunston leaves. Collingwoods cap issues are known.

He isnt worth a 1st but is worth more than a 3rd. Pies wont give up a 1st even if we pay the tab so count that out....

Maybe Henry comes into play? ( I can only hope!)

The clubs have generally dealt well with each other so it should be sorted if thats the way Mitchell wants to go

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

This might be the kicker. Hawks are struggling to meet the minimum salary cap, especially if Gunston leaves. Collingwoods cap issues are known.

He isnt worth a 1st but is worth more than a 3rd. Pies wont give up a 1st even if we pay the tab so count that out....

Maybe Henry comes into play? ( I can only hope!)

The clubs have generally dealt well with each other so it should be sorted if thats the way Mitchell wants to go

I feel that Henry either signs with us or goes to play with his brother. He is worth somewhere in the 12-20 range in terms of draft picks. If magically Henry picks Hawthorn and Mitchell picks Collingwood then maybe 24 and Mitchell for a 3rd rounder and Henry would be close. I dont think that deal pleases anyone which makes it about right.

 

[Bussie]

does anyone know if Mitchell would be a mentor for the younger blokes? Or, have enough of a footy brain to be an on-field mentor/coach type?
He might get a load of 'cheap' possessions, but at least he has the ball. He reads it beautifully off the ruckman from both sides.

It's be a shame to lose Henry, but if he really wants to go, then by all means, thanks and good luck. Swap him with Ratugolea. Fixes a few issues.

 

[gouki88]

does anyone know if Mitchell would be a mentor for the younger blokes? Or, have enough of a footy brain to be an on-field mentor/coach type?
He might get a load of 'cheap' possessions, but at least he has the ball. He reads it beautifully off the ruckman from both sides.

It's be a shame to lose Henry, but if he really wants to go, then by all means, thanks and good luck. Swap him with Ratugolea. Fixes a few issues.

We can do so much better than a swap for Ratugolea. He is worse than Cox in every way.

 

[jmac70]

I feel that Henry either signs with us or goes to play with his brother. He is worth somewhere in the 12-20 range in terms of draft picks. If magically Henry picks Hawthorn and Mitchell picks Collingwood then maybe 24 and Mitchell for a 3rd rounder and Henry would be close. I dont think that deal pleases anyone which makes it about right.

That would really suck

 

[RobJD]

Yeah they will not take a 3rd rounder for him, I doubt it anyway.

That said, Mitchell has not played him in that position all year with an eye to the future so all signs point to Mitchell not having him as part of his plans going forward.

He is a clearance machine and has had to carry our crap midfield almost on his own since signing, put him in a decent side and he will feed outside players all day long, he's a pig. Im not sure why his value is so low but it is, so its an interesting one...

Might be a good fit for the Pies given poor old Tay-tay just cant get it going?

I dont think Im biased when I say he is a far, far superior player to Fiorini and Setterfield though! I can understand why old mate Rob was laughed off the Hawthorn board for saying that...

To be fair, I was clearly laughed off by those who didn't comprehend the thread of the discussion - what I said about Mitchell was that right now he is "clearly better than Fiorini and Setterfield et. al" - what the younger candidate recruits have is a greater potential as a strategic recruit, the example that I gave was Will Brodie. If you compare the return from Mitchel over 1-2 years and a Fiorini over say 5-7 years then there's greater risk/reward potential with the younger recruit - interested in Pie's feedback as I got the feeling the Hawks posters struggled with the concept of the strategic comparison and simply focussed on inane insults

 

[RobJD]

Yeah they will not take a 3rd rounder for him, I doubt it anyway.

That said, Mitchell has not played him in that position all year with an eye to the future so all signs point to Mitchell not having him as part of his plans going forward.

He is a clearance machine and has had to carry our crap midfield almost on his own since signing, put him in a decent side and he will feed outside players all day long, he's a pig. Im not sure why his value is so low but it is, so its an interesting one...

Might be a good fit for the Pies given poor old Tay-tay just cant get it going?

I dont think Im biased when I say he is a far, far superior player to Fiorini and Setterfield though! I can understand why old mate Rob was laughed off the Hawthorn board for saying that...

And to be fair, I wasn't laughed off as much as your Moderator - I think his name is Joey Goebbles, kicked me off

 

[sr36]

To be fair, I was clearly laughed off by those who didn't comprehend the thread of the discussion - what I said about Mitchell was that right now he is "clearly better than Fiorini and Setterfield et. al" - what the younger candidate recruits have is a greater potential as a strategic recruit, the example that I gave was Will Brodie. If you compare the return from Mitchel over 1-2 years and a Fiorini over say 5-7 years then there's greater risk/reward potential with the younger recruit - interested in Pie's feedback as I got the feeling the Hawks posters struggled with the concept of the strategic comparison and simply focussed on inane insults

I don't agree with your concept. It's a bit like saying that we should delist Noble and replace him with a lat draft pick, because at 18 with a potential 15 years ahead of him, that 5th round draftee has far greater risk/reward - and he does, but you seem to be ignoring the far greater risk part of it.

 

[Matrix10]

does anyone know if Mitchell would be a mentor for the younger blokes? Or, have enough of a footy brain to be an on-field mentor/coach type?
He might get a load of 'cheap' possessions, but at least he has the ball. He reads it beautifully off the ruckman from both sides.

It's be a shame to lose Henry, but if he really wants to go, then by all means, thanks and good luck. Swap him with Ratugolea. Fixes a few issues.

Ratugowhoa. No thanks. Are you serious.

 

[stormskye]

I’ve been a fan of Henry but if he wants out so be it. Can’t have your cake and eat it to. Current afl environment players are moving a lot more, and we are looking at bringing in close to 4-5 ourselves. Gotto expect some to leave. That’s just the nature of the game

 

[swoop42]

Remind me how AFL contracts work again.

If Mitchell was set to earn something around the $800,000 mark next season at Hawthorn can we sign him to a 3 year 1.5 million contract and divide out that 1.5 million as we wish across those 3 seasons?

If that's the case and Hawthorns primary motivation is to get his entire salary off their books for 2023 (and we don't have to pay him $800,000 in his first season) then it's entirely possible he could be gotten for a discounted cost like one or two 3rd round selections.

People should remember he was still Hawthorns leading possession winner this season and averaged 5 clearances so even a 2nd round selection wouldn't be overs for him IMO.

 

[RobJD]

I don't agree with your concept. It's a bit like saying that we should delist Noble and replace him with a lat draft pick, because at 18 with a potential 15 years ahead of him, that 5th round draftee has far greater risk/reward - and he does, but you seem to be ignoring the far greater risk part of it.

Risk/reward is a balancing act - there's not much risk with Mitchell as we know what we're going to get, he'll be good for another 2-3 years and then he'll be gone - he's not going to get any better than he is now, and hopefully he'll maintain that standard for another year or so before time starts catching up with him. Compare that to another hawks on-baller that the Swans recruited - Josh Kennedy in 2009 was at best an emerging in-side mid who struggled to get a game with the Hawks - Swans recruiting him was high risk but, in the end, provided a high reward. So, the question for the Pies is whether we go high risk/high reward with someone like Fiorini or low risk/med reward for a Mitchell - I rank that decision line-ball/even hence the comparision that they're even. For the Noble example I'd rate him low risk/high reward vs a late draft pick as high risk/low return (not many late draft picks even play a single game)

 

[cityslick1]

does anyone know if Mitchell would be a mentor for the younger blokes? Or, have enough of a footy brain to be an on-field mentor/coach type?
He might get a load of 'cheap' possessions, but at least he has the ball. He reads it beautifully off the ruckman from both sides.

It's be a shame to lose Henry, but if he really wants to go, then by all means, thanks and good luck. Swap him with Ratugolea. Fixes a few issues.

Is already mates with Ginni and seemed to lend some support during the media uproar. Check out the podcast if you’re keen to delve deeper. But he seems to have good comm skills with young blokes, and already showing an interest in Ginni’s development and career…

 

[JLC]

I’ve been a fan of Henry but if he wants out so be it. Can’t have your cake and eat it to. Current afl environment players are moving a lot more, and we are looking at bringing in close to 4-5 ourselves. Gotto expect some to leave. That’s just the nature of the game

Just love how “Tom Hawkins is on 300k” is leaked to the media. Geelong are surely after a big fish and this is the spin beforehand. Might be Henry and Grundy.

AFL have an integrity department - they tick off on every contract? But that is lip service. They need to go further than that and review employment of relatives, changes to other investments held, deals with sponsors etc etc. The logical club to start with is Geelong as it doesn’t add up.

 

[jmac70]

Just love how “Tom Hawkins is on 300k” is leaked to the media. Geelong are surely after a big fish and this is the spin beforehand. Might be Henry and Grundy.

AFL have an integrity department - they tick off on every contract? But that is lip service. They need to go further than that and review employment of relatives, changes to other investments held, deals with sponsors etc etc. The logical club to start with is Geelong as it doesn’t add up.

And yet, if we kick straight we roll them in a QF.

 

[RobJD]

Remind me how AFL contracts work again.

If Mitchell was set to earn something around the $800,000 mark next season at Hawthorn can we sign him to a 3 year 1.5 million contract and divide out that 1.5 million as we wish across those 3 seasons?

If that's the case and Hawthorns primary motivation is to get his entire salary off their books for 2023 (and we don't have to pay him $800,000 in his first season) then it's entirely possible he could be gotten for a discounted cost like one or two 3rd round selections.

People should remember he was still Hawthorns leading possession winner this season and averaged 5 clearances so even a 2nd round selection wouldn't be overs for him IMO.

As I understand it, if he agrees to a contract with the Pies (within the enterprise bargaining agreement guidelines) and the Hawks agree to trade him to us, then the new contact negates the existing contract with the Hawks. The Pies aren't bound to pay him $800,000 next year (and Mitchell isn't bound to agree to a lowering of the contract amount). As seen with the Lions and Daniher, that contract can be subsequently re-drawn as long as both parties agree. So yes, we could offer $1.5 over 3 years and he could accept that and the Hawks would have the full $800k off their books.

 

[JLC]

As I understand it, if he agrees to a contract with the Pies (within the enterprise bargaining agreement guidelines) and the Hawks agree to trade him to us, then the new contact negates the existing contract with the Hawks. The Pies aren't bound to pay him $800,000 next year (and Mitchell isn't bound to agree to a lowering of the contract amount). As seen with the Lions and Daniher, that contract can be subsequently re-drawn as long as both parties agree. So yes, we could offer $1.5 over 3 years and he could accept that and the Hawks would have the full $800k off their books.

Similar to Treloar……what if

We say to Melbourne we will pay Grundy $300k per season for the next five years……$1.5m. Melbourne obligated to pay the remaining $700k per year

Grundy signs with Melbourne and says tear up my contact and pay me $1.5m per year for 3 years only.

Are we still obligated to pay part of that money?

Surely we should have a side contract saying if the main contract is varied/terminated then any requirements for us to pay monies to Grundy are null and void?

 

[sr36]

Risk/reward is a balancing act - there's not much risk with Mitchell as we know what we're going to get, he'll be good for another 2-3 years and then he'll be gone - he's not going to get any better than he is now, and hopefully he'll maintain that standard for another year or so before time starts catching up with him. Compare that to another hawks on-baller that the Swans recruited - Josh Kennedy in 2009 was at best an emerging in-side mid who struggled to get a game with the Hawks - Swans recruiting him was high risk but, in the end, provided a high reward. So, the question for the Pies is whether we go high risk/high reward with someone like Fiorini or low risk/med reward for a Mitchell - I rank that decision line-ball/even hence the comparision that they're even. For the Noble example I'd rate him low risk/high reward vs a late draft pick as high risk/low return (not many late draft picks even play a single game)

Agree. And what you're talking about is already built into trades. I've never seen Fiorini, but it seems really unlikely that a 24 year old fringe player is valued as highly as Tom Mitchell.

 

[manicpie]

Agree. And what you're talking about is already built into trades. I've never seen Fiorini, but it seems really unlikely that a 24 year old fringe player is valued as highly as Tom Mitchell.

People need to get a grip. Mitchel won the B&F last year, he was played as a high HF this year and still averages 26 disposals and 5 clearances. If we get him it will be massive in for a teams who's flag window is wide open