List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[Everybody Panic]

He's contracted.

Yep. And which party do you think instigated his start to look for a new club?

 

[LuckyLee]

The Grundy contract was reportedly below 1m and over 900K for it's duration.
For the next five years there's strong word that it's actually below $900K which would make sense given the shedding of Treloar, Aish, Phillips and Stephenson.
Pies contributing 100K max is the word
If the Pies were contributing 300K which is a crock of s**t purported by stains like Ralph then...
They can cough up two first rounders.
Grundy plays a position that is much rarer than the dime a dozen midfielder.
He was widely considered the best and most important player in the league over 2018/2019.
Re watch the 2019 prelim - we came from the clouds, Grundy was on fire. He is capable to produce this footy over the next few seasons.
If the club doesn't get compensated properly I'd rather keep Grundy and not give someone like WHE a contract. This happens.
Grundy may also take a hair cut on his deal and stay.
Club should be aiming for maximum compensation, if it's to Geelong or Melbourne - they are right in their window - Grundy could equal a flag. So we make them pay through the nose.

I think you are kidding yourself and are in for a very big disappointment.

Have you ever been to a house auction with only one bidder?

What about a house auction with only one bidder and where the house is a bit run down?

What about a house auction with only one bidder, where the house is a bit run down and where the sellers are getting divorced?

None of the above result in strong sale prices - especially the third one, which is the position that we’re in with Grundy. It will be ugly.

We have near-zero leverage and unless more keen bidders emerge, we are going to cop a lousy deal on Grundy. If you accept that now, you’ll feel much less bitter about it when it happens.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Juan Ide]

Yeo is a midfielder with a history of soft tissue injuries. It's a poor example.
Not sure what planet your on if you don't rate Grundy to be top five talent at our club.
But you've gone all out to claim he's not even close to that.

Grundy is definitely top5 in our club and anyone else's. Question is only what he's worth as part of a perceived 'fire sale'.

 

[adammania9]

The Grundy contract was reportedly below 1m and over 900K for it's duration.
For the next five years there's strong word that it's actually below $900K which would make sense given the shedding of Treloar, Aish, Phillips and Stephenson.
Pies contributing 100K max is the word
If the Pies were contributing 300K which is a crock of s**t purported by stains like Ralph then...
They can cough up two first rounders.
Grundy plays a position that is much rarer than the dime a dozen midfielder.
He was widely considered the best and most important player in the league over 2018/2019.
Re watch the 2019 prelim - we came from the clouds, Grundy was on fire. He is capable to produce this footy over the next few seasons.
If the club doesn't get compensated properly I'd rather keep Grundy and not give someone like WHE a contract. This happens.
Grundy may also take a hair cut on his deal and stay.
Club should be aiming for maximum compensation, if it's to Geelong or Melbourne - they are right in their window - Grundy could equal a flag. So we make them pay through the nose.

Lot of wishful thinking here imo.

What word is there that the Grundy deal was front loaded? Probably the same word that said in 2020 we didn't have serious salary cap issues and that the media was making it all up. Big contracts have always traditionally been back ended, or at least equal across years. Doesn't make much sense to be front loaded.

He was considered by some to be the best player in the game in 2019. That was a bad misjudging by football fans who thought this. He was a very good player, but might have been in the bottom rung of the top 10 at best. Nevertheless, this was in 2019 which will be 4 years ago by the commencement of round one. Past performance has zero baring on his worth to us in 2023.

I remember the preliminary final well. That's the game we won hitouts 78-16, and lost the clearances 35-54, which cost us a grand final appearance. I don't think Grundy's performance is a model of strong ruck craft.

If Grundy wanted to take a haircut on his deal to stay, he would have by now. Instead he wants his money - which is his right - but he should earn that elsewhere. Play for the jumper, not the pay.

 

[ExcitementMachine]

I think you are kidding yourself and are in for a very big disappointment.

Have you ever been to a house auction with only one bidder?

What about a house auction with only one bidder and where the house is a bit run down?

What about a house auction with only one bidder, where the house is a bit run down and where the sellers are getting divorced?

None of the above result in strong sale prices - especially the third one, which is the position that we’re in with Grundy. It will be ugly.

We have near-zero leverage and unless more keen bidders emerge, we are going to cop a lousy deal on Grundy. If you accept that now, you’ll feel much less bitter about it when it happens.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

The leverage is Grundy is contracted. You have no idea of the relationships he has at the club.
He could just as easily sign on for all we know.
I would suspect that there are two bidders in the same town Geelong and Melbourne with several other clubs also interested but ruled out due to Grundy not interested in moving interstate.

 

[ExcitementMachine]

Grundy is definitely top5 in our club and anyone else's. Question is only what he's worth as part of a perceived 'fire sale'.

And the key word there is perceived and perceived by who?
If we could afford Tarranto but missed out, we can certainly afford Grundy.
So a club in contention can pay the full price.
Otherwise Grundy stays.

 

[Everybody Panic]

Yeo is a midfielder with a history of soft tissue injuries. It's a poor example.
Not sure what planet your on if you don't rate Grundy to be top five talent at our club.
But you've gone all out to claim he's not even close to that.

He wasn't top 5 in the copeland last year without the injuries. I rate Daicos, Moore, Maynard, Pendles, Daicos, Crisp and Elliot (barely) above him based on 2020 and 2021/2 form. If he was at any other club you would say he's not worth it. I say that and still think he's the best ruck on our list.

 

[ExcitementMachine]

Lot of wishful thinking here imo.

What word is there that the Grundy deal was front loaded? Probably the same word that said in 2020 we didn't have serious salary cap issues and that the media was making it all up. Big contracts have always traditionally been back ended, or at least equal across years. Doesn't make much sense to be front loaded.

He was considered by some to be the best player in the game in 2019. That was a bad misjudging by football fans who thought this. He was a very good player, but might have been in the bottom rung of the top 10 at best. Nevertheless, this was in 2019 which will be 4 years ago by the commencement of round one. Past performance has zero baring on his worth to us in 2023.

I remember the preliminary final well. That's the game we won hitouts 78-16, and lost the clearances 35-54, which cost us a grand final appearance. I don't think Grundy's performance is a model of strong ruck craft.

If Grundy wanted to take a haircut on his deal to stay, he would have by now. Instead he wants his money - which is his right - but he should earn that elsewhere. Play for the jumper, not the pay.

It wasn't misjudging. Grundy was the best ruckman in the game, and has been a top 2 ruckman for most of the past four or five years or so.

 

[adammania9]

He wasn't top 5 in the copeland last year without the injuries. I rate Daicos, Moore, Maynard, Pendles, Daicos, Crisp and Elliot (barely) above him based on 2020 and 2021/2 form. If he was at any other club you would say he's not worth it. I say that and still think he's the best ruck on our list.

Or the year before

 

[ExcitementMachine]

He wasn't top 5 in the copeland last year without the injuries. I rate Daicos, Moore, Maynard, Pendles, Daicos, Crisp and Elliot (barely) above him based on 2020 and 2021/2 form. If he was at any other club you would say he's not worth it. I say that and still think he's the best ruck on our list.

If we had Grundy fit - we'd be in a prelim against Brisbane at the MCG.

 

[Everybody Panic]

Grundy is definitely top5 in our club and anyone else's. Question is only what he's worth as part of a perceived 'fire sale'.

Moore, Daicos, Maynard, Pendles, DeGoey. Which is he better than based of the past 3 years?

 

[ExcitementMachine]

Yep. And which party do you think instigated his start to look for a new club?

yeah well, he probably should take a pay cut.

 

[JOELY]

Melbourne are not giving up Van Rooyen. Their key forward situation is dire. They aren't parting with a first year promising key forward taken with a first round pick. He would be off limits.

 

[adammania9]

It wasn't misjudging. Grundy was the best ruckman in the game, and has been a top 2 ruckman for most of the past four or five years or so.

Why were we shown up in big finals in successive years by sides who fielded Lycett and Vardy, then Mumford against the best big man in the game? Rucks aren't worth the big coin, because their influence is only limited to the midfielders that rove at their feet. I don't disagree Grundy was the 2nd best ruck in the comp at the time, but that doesn't make him a top player in the game.

 

[Everybody Panic]

yeah well, he probably should take a pay cut.

He should take a pay cut but also is elite and should be worth 2 first. Your logic comes down to "in dreamland what would be the best deal for the pies".

 

[Chrispiesssss]

I wasn’t a big fan of Mcstay, but he’s impressed in his last couple of games.

Hopefully he continues with playing majority of the season as he did at the lions.

2022 - played 20 out of 24 games
2021 - played 19 out of 24 games
2020 - played 17 out of 19 games
2019 - played 24 out of 24 games

 

[ExcitementMachine]

Why were we shown up in big finals in successive years by sides who fielded Lycett and Vardy, then Mumford against the best big man in the game? Rucks aren't worth the big coin, because their influence is only limited to the midfielders that rove at their feet. I don't disagree Grundy was the 2nd best ruck in the comp at the time, but that doesn't make him a top player in the game.

It did. I can think of several high profile experts who made claims that he was - the best player in the game. Why would you reference 2019 prelim anyway. I clearly remember Grundy being the catalyst to our comeback that was nearly a win for the ages.

 

[adammania9]

One question that is never answered - why would Brodie Grundy

4

Brodie Grundy

Age

30

Ht

202cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

9.6

5star

CL

4.1

5star

HO

32.0

5star

D

16.4

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

9.6

5star

CL

4.0

5star

HO

34.6

5star

D

13.8

4star

K

5.2

2star

HB

8.6

5star

CL

2.6

5star

HO

20.6

5star

's 2018-19 form have any baring on his trade value leading into the 2023 season? We should need to pay 2x first round picks for Brownlow medallist Tom Mitchell by the same logic

 

[ExcitementMachine]

One question that is never answered - why would Brodie Grundy's 2018-19 form have any baring on his trade value leading into the 2023 season? We should need to pay 2x first round picks for Brownlow medallist Tom Mitchell by the same logic

Because he has played games to that standard over 2020-22 and some of those seasons were disrupted by a one in a 100 year pandemic.

 

[adammania9]

Because he has played games to that standard over 2020-22 and some of those seasons were disrupted by a one in a 100 year pandemic.

Please remind me

 

[Piesinfront]

Brodie Grundy:
28 years old
2x best and fairest winner
2x All-Australian
Peaked in 2018-19
$925000-1025000 salary (5 more years)
27 coaches votes in 20 games in 2021
3 coaches votes in 6 games in 2022
26/46 games played in last two seasons (56.5% availability)
Injury plagued 2022

Elliot Yeo:
28 years old
2x best and fairest winner
2x All-Australian
Peaked in 2017-19
750000-850000 salary (2 more years)
9 coaches votes in 12 games in 2021
4 coaches votes in 5 games in 2022
17/44 games played in last two seasons (38.6% availability)
Injury plagued 2022

Some perspective on Brodie Grundy's trade value. Don't spit the dummy when we don't get two first rounders or a first and a player for him. Would you trade that for Elliot Yeo?

Couple of factors to consider re Grundy.......if looking at stats as a guide on performance we need to consider that 2020 was shortened quarters (16 mins), and shortened season (17 games) .....so on paper Grundy look like is 2020 fell away (stats and games), but if you check back all did..... and 2021 was a tough year which was spent with loads of time away.....same for all but not necessarily handled the same by every player. Out side of this year, Grundy has been pretty injury free for a ruck....and as a provocation they can last a long time...Goldstein is 34, Gawn nearly 31. I do agree that he is not worth anywhere near what he was when we locked him in, but I do think he has lots of football left and if he comes back with a point to prove I think he be a top 5 ruck .....I think he is worth more to us to stay than as trade bait, or salary space.....On his potential move to Melbourne, from his perspective I reckon he is nuts to consider moving to play alongside the best ruck in the comp.....when Grundy's pref is to play virtually full time in the ruck, surely he realises this before he puts pen to paper! It will be interesting to see what plays out!

 

[ExcitementMachine]

He should take a pay cut but also is elite and should be worth 2 first. Your logic comes down to "in dreamland what would be the best deal for the pies".

It would be good list management to do that, keep Grundy then do what your suggesting for some unknown reason - to force our hand and a trade not on our terms for a contracted player to get peanuts.
Why should we actually do that?

 

[Everybody Panic]

One question that is never answered - why would Brodie Grundy's 2018-19 form have any baring on his trade value leading into the 2023 season? We should need to pay 2x first round picks for Brownlow medallist Tom Mitchell by the same logic

But Grundy plays for Collingwood, and has a contract everyone suggest is inflated, so naturally he's worth much more!

 

[adammania9]

But Grundy plays for Collingwood, and has a contract everyone suggest is inflated, so naturally he's worth much more!

It's the same as giving up our first round pick and Oliver Henry for Elliot Yeo, and the Eagles pay $200k of his salary. Outlandish.

 

[Everybody Panic]

It would be good list management to do that, keep Grundy then do what your suggesting for some unknown reason - to force our hand and a trade not on our terms for a contracted player to get peanuts.
Why should we actually do that?

There is only 1 reason we trade Grundy, we think his salary could be better used elsewhere on the list. Despite what you think, the contract puts the pies in a weak position. He can stay, on the same cash and there's nothing we can do about it. If he was on 450k there's no suggestion we would be trading him. He also is under no obligation to take a pay cut.