List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[No SPIN]

Not when the whole point of Grundy trade is salary cap relief.

The numbers for salary cap relief are marginal once the cost of adding decent Ruck depth to replace the aging Cox. And Cap is also increasing by $1.5 mill.
Pointless trading Grundy unless we get some great picks that GW can put into his magic soup to get Cadman.

 

[OEP MKII]

Bobby Hill won’t cost us a first rounder. The Giants themselves have said they think he’s worth a second rounder.

So if that’s their starting position I can see us pushing that out to a late second or early third.

If that happens, and I REALLY hope your correct, and we only cough up a late 2nd or early 3rd for him I'll be doing backflips I'll be that happy

 

[No SPIN]

Brodie Grundy:
28 years old
2x best and fairest winner
2x All-Australian
Peaked in 2018-19
$925000-1025000 salary (5 more years)
27 coaches votes in 20 games in 2021
3 coaches votes in 6 games in 2022
26/46 games played in last two seasons (56.5% availability)
Injury plagued 2022

Elliot Yeo:
28 years old
2x best and fairest winner
2x All-Australian
Peaked in 2017-19
750000-850000 salary (2 more years)
9 coaches votes in 12 games in 2021
4 coaches votes in 5 games in 2022
17/44 games played in last two seasons (38.6% availability)
Injury plagued 2022

Some perspective on Brodie Grundy's trade value. Don't spit the dummy when we don't get two first rounders or a first and a player for him. Would you trade that for Elliot Yeo?

Your way off re the “injury plagued”.
Grundy has been far more durable over the entirety of his career than Yeo, and doesn’t have chronic issues.
Clubs will rightly baulk on Yeo with his injury history but not so with Grundy.

 

[ExcitementMachine]

Your way off re the “injury plagued”.
Grundy has been far more durable over the entirety of his career than Yeo, and doesn’t have chronic issues.
Clubs will rightly baulk on Yeo with his injury history but not so with Grundy.

Plus Grundy already has many suitors with him reportedly only keen on either Melbourne or Geelong.

 

[adammania9]

Plus Grundy already has many suitors with him reportedly only keen on either Melbourne or Geelong.

Grundy will pick his club of choice and we'll only be able to deal with that club. This will not result in Collingwood receiving a premium

 

[ExcitementMachine]

There is only 1 reason we trade Grundy, we think his salary could be better used elsewhere on the list. Despite what you think, the contract puts the pies in a weak position. He can stay, on the same cash and there's nothing we can do about it. If he was on 450k there's no suggestion we would be trading him. He also is under no obligation to take a pay cut.

If that happens, the club should retain Grundy and not offer someone like WHE a contract. Let's see how Grundy goes in 2023 if he can perform up to his contract value.

 

[No SPIN]

Yep. And which party do you think instigated his start to look for a new club?

Grundy has a contract so he doesn’t need to go anywhere unless he chooses.
Club will try to get a win win but ultimately Grundy can’t be forced to do anything.

 

[No SPIN]

I think you are kidding yourself and are in for a very big disappointment.

Have you ever been to a house auction with only one bidder?

What about a house auction with only one bidder and where the house is a bit run down?

What about a house auction with only one bidder, where the house is a bit run down and where the sellers are getting divorced?

None of the above result in strong sale prices - especially the third one, which is the position that we’re in with Grundy. It will be ugly.

We have near-zero leverage and unless more keen bidders emerge, we are going to cop a lousy deal on Grundy. If you accept that now, you’ll feel much less bitter about it when it happens.


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Sorry mate but if you think the Club is desperate as with Treloar, Stevo and Phillips, then you are sadly mistaken.

 

[Juan Ide]

Moore, Daicos, Maynard, Pendles, DeGoey. Which is he better than based of the past 3 years?

Equal to each and every one of them, if he can recapture his best form and remain injury free. The 'past 3 years' thinking is a complete red-herring, only attractive to people with short term memories, (and, of course, to low-balling suitors), imho.

 

[live fast pieyoung]

I think you are kidding yourself and are in for a very big disappointment.

Have you ever been to a house auction with only one bidder?

What about a house auction with only one bidder and where the house is a bit run down?

What about a house auction with only one bidder, where the house is a bit run down and where the sellers are getting divorced?

None of the above result in strong sale prices - especially the third one, which is the position that we’re in with Grundy. It will be ugly.

We have near-zero leverage and unless more keen bidders emerge, we are going to cop a lousy deal on Grundy. If you accept that now, you’ll feel much less bitter about it when it happens.


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Ummm have you ever been to a house auction in australia any time in the last 30 years???

 

[ExcitementMachine]

Grundy will pick his club of choice and we'll only be able to deal with that club. This will not result in Collingwood receiving a premium

They still need to do a deal that satisfies as he's contracted, at least that's the stand the club should take.

 

[No SPIN]

Why were we shown up in big finals in successive years by sides who fielded Lycett and Vardy, then Mumford against the best big man in the game? Rucks aren't worth the big coin, because their influence is only limited to the midfielders that rove at their feet. I don't disagree Grundy was the 2nd best ruck in the comp at the time, but that doesn't make him a top player in the game.

Grundy is not being paid big money just because he can get taps. Unlike bog average Ruckman you are comparing him to, he offers midfielder stats and an Elite Tank, that boost his value.

 

[ExcitementMachine]

Grundy will pick his club of choice and we'll only be able to deal with that club. This will not result in Collingwood receiving a premium

What on earth would you personally accept if you were in charge of negotiations?

 

[live fast pieyoung]

i think its more like the beams trade, where the buyer (us) overpaid because they thought he was the last piece of the puzzle for a flag and there was no other alternative.

A contending team would pay a premium because they know they cant make-do with an inferior replacement.

So there is some leverage going both ways

 

[ExcitementMachine]

If Grundy was fully fit we would be playing in a preliminary and be up against Brisbane.
He'd be the best ruckman left in the season and by a long way.

That one got crickets for some reason

 

[No SPIN]

One question that is never answered - why would Brodie Grundy's 2018-19 form have any baring on his trade value leading into the 2023 season? We should need to pay 2x first round picks for Brownlow medallist Tom Mitchell by the same logic

Why are you discounting his ability to get back to his best?
He’s only 28, and has every opportunity to improve under McCrae, as many others have on the list.

The “McCrae effect” is the big stumbling block you critics have in suggesting Grundy can’t improve.

 

[Everybody Panic]

Equal to each and every one of them, if he can recapture his best form and remain injury free. The 'past 3 years' thinking is a complete red-herring, only attractive to people with short term memories, (and, of course, to low-balling suitors), imho.

Short memories? You're suggesting that clubs will pay top dollar for someone who hasn't been near their best since 2019? 3 years is a long time in footy. Yes I agree, in 2018/19 he was the best ruck in the game. That's why he got such a big contract.

 

[ExcitementMachine]

Short memories? You're suggesting that clubs will pay top dollar for someone who hasn't been near their best since 2019? 3 years is a long time in footy. Yes I agree, in 2018/19 he was the best ruck in the game. That's why he got such a big contract.

And for most of 2020-22 he was the second best ruckman?

 

[Juan Ide]

Short memories? You're suggesting that clubs will pay top dollar for someone who hasn't been near their best since 2019? 3 years is a long time in footy. Yes I agree, in 2018/19 he was the best ruck in the game. That's why he got such a big contract.

I'm not suggesting that at all. Calm down, mate. Please!

 

[LuckyLee]

The leverage is Grundy is contracted. You have no idea of the relationships he has at the club.
He could just as easily sign on for all we know.
I would suspect that there are two bidders in the same town Geelong and Melbourne with several other clubs also interested but ruled out due to Grundy not interested in moving interstate.

We shall see. I admire your optimism but also hope you remember this exchange of opinions.

BTW, your argument about Grundy being contracted has a huge flaw in it. We are clearly planning - and making offers to new players - on the basis that Grundy’s list spot is open and a portion of his wage is freed-up. Keeping him on his current wage is no longer an option. Either he voluntarily takes a substantial pay cut to stay, or we’ll be taking whatever we can get for him.

The only hope I see is that a second club emerges and a bidding war breaks out. But I think that’s extremely unlikely.

Anyway, let’s see what happens.


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[Everybody Panic]

If Grundy was fully fit we would be playing in a preliminary and be up against Brisbane.
He'd be the best ruckman left in the season and by a long way.

That one got crickets for some reason

Except he played against Geelong in round 3 and we lost. You gotta get out of pretend land.

 

[adammania9]

Grundy is not being paid big money just because he can get taps. Unlike bog average Ruckman you are comparing him to, he offers midfielder stats and an Elite Tank, that boost his value.

Well I don’t think the rest of his game is worth anywhere near the money he earns. So he can win some clearances, but we can dump $700k of his salary and bring in Tom Mitchell who is a much better clearance winner

 

[ExcitementMachine]

We shall see. I admire your optimism but also hope you remember this exchange of opinions.

BTW, your argument about Grundy being contracted has a huge flaw in it. We are clearly planning - and making offers to new players - on the basis that Grundy’s list spot is open and a portion of his wage is freed-up. Keeping him on his current wage is no longer an option. Either he voluntarily takes a substantial pay cut to stay, or we’ll be taking whatever we can get for him.

The only hope I see is that a second club emerges and a bidding war breaks out. But I think that’s extremely unlikely.

Anyway, let’s see what happens.


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There's already about five clubs interested.
Qe will get a lot more than a masterly second rounder.
Bookmark this thread. Noted.

 

[adammania9]

What on earth would you personally accept if you were in charge of negotiations?

I’m not in charge of negotiations, and neither are any biased Collingwood supporters. That’s my point. Adjust your expectations, or else you’ll be seriously disappointed

 

[Juan Ide]

We shall see. I admire your optimism but also hope you remember this exchange of opinions.

BTW, your argument about Grundy being contracted has a huge flaw in it. We are clearly planning - and making offers to new players - on the basis that Grundy’s list spot is open and a portion of his wage is freed-up. Keeping him on his current wage is no longer an option. Either he voluntarily takes a substantial pay cut to stay, or we’ll be taking whatever we can get for him.

The only hope I see is that a second club emerges and a bidding war breaks out. But I think that’s extremely unlikely.

Anyway, let’s see what happens.


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If Grundy chooses to stay here and on his current deal, presumably we will be required to stand by our contractual obligations to him? Or have I misunderstood things? Please help me understand this.