List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade and FA

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gtrain23 said:
Houston isn’t a need?
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More of a case of we could bring in two or maybe even three pieces of the puzzle that we're missing right now for what we'd be outlaying to get Houston.

Realistically we also need someone who will do a job for us for 2-3 years, not 5-6 on big money, as our window will be closing for a bit once the elder statemen all retire and players like Moore, and DeGoey slip into their 30's.

I'm always mindful of our age profile so, while Houston is a good player, he'll probably be wasted on us for the last 2-3 years that we're paying him big money because we'll more than likely be going through a mini rebuild starting in 2026/27

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We really are in win-now mode and have other gaps we need to to fill both short term and towards the back half of that 5-6 year period Houston would theoretically be with us. I'm also mindful that mid-sized outside mid / wing / half back flanker isn't really an area of need for us right now, especially not given that we'll have to throw the kitchen sink at him.
 
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Ugene41 said:
Naicos was pretty effective as that HBF creator and pretty useless as a defender...
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Yeah, it's only really a defensive role for 15 seconds after a centre bounce - not many teams hold 6 in forward positions. They push one at least one of them up into the edge of the pack.
 
Meh, if Ben McKay is on a heavily front-ended contract that sees him earn $1.5 million for a couple of years then Perryman is 100% worth $850k a year.


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partypie said:
More of a case of we could being in two or maybe even three pieces of the puzzle that we're missing right now for what we'd be outlaying to get Houston.

Realistically we also need someone who will do a job for us for 2-3 years, not 5-6 on big money, as our window will be closing for a bit once the elder statemen all retire and players like Moore, and DeGoey slip into their 30's.

I'm always mindful of our age profile so, while Houston is a good player, he'll probably be wasted on us for the last 2-3 years that we're paying him big money because we'll more than likely be going through a mini rebuild starting in 2026/27

View attachment 2123377

We really are in win-now mode and have other gaps we need to to fill both short term and towards the back half of that 5-6 year period Houston would theoretically be with us. I'm also mindful that mid-sized outside mid / wing / half back flanker isn't really an area of need for us right now, especially not given that we'll have to throw the kitchen sink at him.
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This is the best anaylsis I have seen on here.

We really ae in a win now mode and yes, its a dangerous place to be in.

Bringing in FA's and maintining draft picks is going to have to be the plan over the next few years in order to:
1. Top up with ready made players
2. ensure that in 5 years time, there is still a crop of kids who can play consistent AFL football.

As it stands, our U23 Crop is limited to Beau and Nick...
 
Stronzatello said:
Yep the same as Bucks thought we’d be better with Quinten Lynch, Tony Armstrong, Clinton Young, Jordan Russell and Jesse White 👍
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I like to pot Bucks the coach as much I can but I don’t think it’s fair to hold him to account of list management decisions when he wasn’t in charge of list management. Given how little he played Armstrong and Russell I’m not sure they were his idea either.
 
Bianconeri said:
I like to pot Bucks the coach as much I can but I don’t think it’s fair to hold him to account of list management decisions when he wasn’t in charge of list management. Given how little he played Armstrong and Russell I’m not sure they were his idea either.
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Yep. The way people talk about the coach bringing these guys in - jeez we're blowing some footy department money on list and recruiting management. They'd request player types and then they'd get a vote on the targets that it has been narrowed to.
 
manicpie said:
I wonder if the Sydney players have a problem with grundy being on a million a year regardless of who's paying the majority of it. I don’t think they would.
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They wouldn’t have any problem as only 600k-odd of his wage is under the Swans cap. That’s slight unders and is not eating into the pay of others on the list. Grundy and Treloar are unfortunately still OUR problem.

We are almost out from under it, though I really don’t want to see us splashing crazy money on anyone but A-graders especially as Nick and Josh have signed for reason able dollars. We should be aiming for a good, deep list rather than the few superstars on huge coin and then having a list that drops away like Carlton’s.
 
stormskye said:
Lots will depend on the noble trade I think schu. But for mine, earlier we get started on developing the next gen the better. Will be interesting how high McGuane is rated internally. Might impact what we look at this year. Then also there’s Allan. If the club views Allan as taking the next step next year; then McGuane in 25. Is mid the first pick we look at. Time will tell I guess
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I’d be very keen to do both

Put a young gun in beside Nick / then bring in Perryman (Allan et al)
They still have McStay / Checkers (and maybe Steene / Smit) to kick to
Also draft your KPP - by the time our other KPP are on the way out, our stocks come through

All of this supported by RFAs and UFAs
 
manicpie said:
His pace, athleticism, best mark in the comp and beautiful disposal didn't do it for you when he was at Melbourne? I would have thought you might have picked up on that.
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The first two are traits that even the worst players can have. Being fast and athletic doesn’t automatically make you a better player. Yes he had good disposal, but he played safe footy while in defence for Melbourne and was just ok going in to the forward 50 while playing forward.

He had the traits but didn’t put it all together until he was at the pies, which is kind of the point I was making. The fact we were able to turn two depth players in Seedsman and Kennedy in to Howe speaks volumes about his value at the time.
 
Spuddd said:
This is the best anaylsis I have seen on here.

We really ae in a win now mode and yes, its a dangerous place to be in.

Bringing in FA's and maintining draft picks is going to have to be the plan over the next few years in order to:
1. Top up with ready made players
2. ensure that in 5 years time, there is still a crop of kids who can play consistent AFL football.

As it stands, our U23 Crop is limited to Beau and Nick...
Click to expand...
Agree, good analysis of age profile.

The grass is always greener though. I'd much prefer to be in 'win now' mode with a real shot at a flag in the next year or two than in a perpetual state of rebuilding and future forecasting. It's more exciting than dangerous IMO.

I'm in the camp that if you can engineer a way to get a 27 year old dual AA in an area of need vs pick 12 (as an example), you pull the trigger on the known quantity while you're in the window. Could be the difference between flag number 17 and missing out, and pick 12 quite possibly ends up a Scharenberg or Freeman.

If you want to have your cake and eat it too I.e. challenging whilst also preparing for the future, you risk forgoing a premiership in service of a fairly speculative future.

Sometimes you just have to go all chips in. Now is our time.
 
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partypie said:
More of a case of we could bring in two or maybe even three pieces of the puzzle that we're missing right now for what we'd be outlaying to get Houston.

Realistically we also need someone who will do a job for us for 2-3 years, not 5-6 on big money, as our window will be closing for a bit once the elder statemen all retire and players like Moore, and DeGoey slip into their 30's.

I'm always mindful of our age profile so, while Houston is a good player, he'll probably be wasted on us for the last 2-3 years that we're paying him big money because we'll more than likely be going through a mini rebuild starting in 2026/27

View attachment 2123377

We really are in win-now mode and have other gaps we need to to fill both short term and towards the back half of that 5-6 year period Houston would theoretically be with us. I'm also mindful that mid-sized outside mid / wing / half back flanker isn't really an area of need for us right now, especially not given that we'll have to throw the kitchen sink at him.
Click to expand...
I somewhat agree though if by mid-sized you mean around the 187cm-190ish range I’d like one of each outside mid/wing/back flanker with a bit of pace and marking ability.

Houston would be great but I feel we might struggle to offer enough. I’d try and prize Bergman out as part of a Richards trade as an alternative.
 
DopeMaster said:
Agree, good analysis of age profile.

The grass is always greener though. I'd much prefer to be in 'win now' mode with a real shot at a flag in the next year or two than in a perpetual state of rebuilding and future forecasting. It's more exciting than dangerous IMO.

I'm in the camp that if you can engineer a way to get a 27 year old dual AA in an area of need vs pick 12 (as an example), you pull the trigger on the known quantity while you're in the window. Could be the difference between number 17 and missing out, and pick 12 quite possibly ends up a Scharenberg or Freeman.

If you want to have your cake and eat it too I.e. challenging whilst also preparing for the future, you risk forgoing a premiership in service of a fairly speculative future.

Sometimes you just have to go all chips in. Now is our time.
Click to expand...

That's the thing though, if we go all chips in on a single 27 year old AA half back flanker on a big contract who will be the subject of a bidding war then how do we fill the other gaps we need to fill in that short term?

I'd also argue that Houston as an half back flanker / wing / outside mid (maybe) doesn't really fill an area of need for us, what we desperately need is (in order) a lock down KPD down back, a big bodied inside mid or two in the rotation to take the pressure off Naicos and DeGoey, and some help up forward (no depth behind Mihocek and McStay right now). We'll also need to find some run off half back if Noble goes, but we can likely fill that from within with a little luck.

There are options floating around that I'd hope we'd be talking to as short term rentals who can help us fill those gaps in a win-now situation, but probably not if we literally throw the kitchen sink at Houston, when imo he doesn't really fill a pressing need for us.
 
FromTheBoundaryLine said:
I somewhat agree though if by mid-sized you mean around the 187cm-190ish range I’d like one of each outside mid/wing/back flanker with a bit of pace and marking ability.

Houston would be great but I feel we might struggle to offer enough. I’d try and prize Bergman out as part of a Richards trade as an alternative.
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By mid-sized I mean the level below that 187-190cm range (ie. 183-186cm if you want to put numbers on it), Houston is 186cm and doesn't play a big bodied / tall game, more of a sweeper / runner off the half back flank and occasional outside mid / wing has been his go.

It is all about the cost to get him though, we'd have to throw every trade asset we have at Port to secure him and win the bidding war with what appears to be multiple other clubs. If we could get him for the right price both on the trade table and contract wise then yeah sure, go for it, but I doubt that we can find a way to achieve either of those things, never mind both of them.
 
I just looked and according to footywire SDK is contracted until end of next year. We should go big this year because the threat of what Geelong are about to do to the Dogs for Bailey Smith we could do to them. I can see Geelong giving nothing but pick 15 for Smith. If we get pick 12 out of the Noble deal I would offer that to Geelong for SDK. Pick 12 and we throw in Reef or Dean for SDK. He can play wherever he wants.
 
partypie said:
By mid-sized I mean the level below that 187-190cm range (ie. 183-186cm if you want to put numbers on it), Houston is 186cm and doesn't play a big bodied / tall game, more of a sweeper / runner off the half back flank and occasional outside mid / wing has been his go.

It is all about the cost to get him though, we'd have to throw every trade asset we have at Port to secure him and win the bidding war with what appears to be multiple other clubs. If we could get him for the right price both on the trade table and contract wise then yeah sure, go for it, but I doubt that we can find a way to achieve either of those things, never mind both of them.
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Thanks for that. I don’t watch a lot of non-pies games so defer to those that do as far as trades go. Given your analysis I reckon a Bergman type would be a useful pick up.
 
Scodog10 said:
Naicos>>>>>>Daniel.

We also happened to have Murphy in that defensive mix who had a remarkable ability to cover his teammates.
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Of course Naicos is better than Daniel. But Daniel is also an AA HBF like Houston and would be a fraction of the cost. It was only last year that Daniel finished 4th in WB's best and fairest.

I'm not going to die in a ditch over Daniel. But I feel he is being chronically underrated and the sort of moneyball acquisition that would make more sense given our draft hand than trying to overpay again for someone like Houston as we did with Schultz.
 
partypie said:
That's the thing though, if we go all chips in on a single 27 year old AA half back flanker on a big contract who will be the subject of a bidding war then how do we fill the other gaps we need to fill in that short term?

I'd also argue that Houston as an half back flanker / wing / outside mid (maybe) doesn't really fill an area of need for us, what we desperately need is (in order) a lock down KPD down back, a big bodied inside mid or two in the rotation to take the pressure off Naicos and DeGoey, and some help up forward (no depth behind Mihocek and McStay right now). We'll also need to find some run off half back if Noble goes, but we can likely fill that from within with a little luck.

There are options floating around that I'd hope we'd be talking to as short term rentals who can help us fill those gaps in a win-now situation, but probably not if we literally throw the kitchen sink at Houston, when imo he doesn't really fill a pressing need for us.
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I guess where we differ, and Ive said as much earlier in the thread, is that I see Houston as a clear current need. We lost our great strength in transition when N Daicos moved into the midfield to the point we had to move his brother down back to try and replicate it.

Agree we should also look at inside mids / key backs, but those available this off season are mostly low cost stop-gaps, so targeting Houston doesn’t preclude us from bringing in those types as well.

E.g.

Flanker: Houston
Inside Mid: one of Kennedy / Perryman / Peatling
Key Back depth / upgrade on Frampton: Young / Tomlinson etc

*Names indicative of who we know is available.

You can bring in one from each line at the same time. Getting Houston doesn’t stop us from addressing other needs.
 
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satanshoof101 said:
I just looked and according to footywire SDK is contracted until end of next year. We should go big this year because the threat of what Geelong are about to do to the Dogs for Bailey Smith. If we get pick 12 out of the Noble deal I would offer that to Geelong for SDK. I can Geelong giving nothing but pick 15 for Smith. Pick 12 and we throw in Reef or Dean.
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SDK would be a good get, but he'd have to want to leave and I don't think there's been even the slightest murmuring of that, outside of scum supporters fantasising on their board. Also clearly part of their future plans down back and they'll have plenty of cash to pay him, so I can't see him leaving Geelong.
 
I also wonder whether people are retiring off Mitchell too early purely because he was unavailable this year through injury.

He's never relied on pace and I see no reason he can't give us another few years.

It makes going after Perryman a better option than say, Kennedy, as the former has better positional flexibility (and doesn't cost us a draft pick).

Perhaps we're all just traumatised after seeing Bytel/Sullivan/Long running around in the mids this year...
 
partypie said:
By mid-sized I mean the level below that 187-190cm range (ie. 183-186cm if you want to put numbers on it), Houston is 186cm and doesn't play a big bodied / tall game, more of a sweeper / runner off the half back flank and occasional outside mid / wing has been his go.

It is all about the cost to get him though, we'd have to throw every trade asset we have at Port to secure him and win the bidding war with what appears to be multiple other clubs. If we could get him for the right price both on the trade table and contract wise then yeah sure, go for it, but I doubt that we can find a way to achieve either of those things, never mind both of them.
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Wil Parker fits your mid-sized job description, and I think he could develop into a very good or better player.
 
DopeMaster said:
I also wonder whether people are retiring off Mitchell too early purely because he was unavailable this year through injury.

He's never relied on pace and I see no reason he can't give us another few years.

It makes going after Perryman a better option than say, Kennedy, as the former has better positional flexibility (and doesn't cost us a draft pick).

Perhaps we're all just traumatised after seeing Bytel/Sullivan/Long running around in the mids this year...
Click to expand...
I don’t think Mitchell is done, the injury may have extended him a little, will be keen to see his preseason.
 

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List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade and FA

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