List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade Talk 2016 part 2 - see Mod Warning p 281

[Lethal06]

Here are some examples. I have used the points systems to work out a trade value;

Tom Hickey

Suns traded Tom Hickey and picks 25 & 46 for 13, 36 and 55

So if you use the points system to work out the points left then the value was 834 points which means it was a pick 23.



Billy Longer

Lions traded Billy Longer plus pick 48 for pick 25 and 41

Again if you use the points system to work out the net effect of the swapping of picks the Lions were left with a net points value of 866 so pick 21.


Rhy Stanley went for pick 21


Shaun Hampson went for pick 32

Witts has done nothing at a sustained level in either our AFL or VFL teams to suggest that he has the makings of a No.1 ruckman at another club. The recent VFL prelim final loss was the perfect job interview for him to sell his services with a dominant performance. Depending on who you listen to, he either failed or barely scraped in for a pass mark. Hardly the kind of thing to drive a bidding war among opposition recruiters. He is certainly tall and bulky but isn't a combative enforcer, nor is he a mobile marking target. He looks like Tarzan but plays like Jane. Height alone might be enough to jag a second-rounder but that's about all we can realistically hope for, IMO.

 

[Ketchup]

And Brown was picked on the field in the All Australian team!!

What a dud

Who said he was a dud?

All I'm saying is, I fail to see how they're perfect picks when people are talking 3rd and 4th rounds which we get 20% discount. I'd love to know the hit rate of solid players in that region, yet that seems to be a pressing need for us due to their last names.

I'd much rather both be rated top 10 and us working out how we're going to get them, then have them rated picks 30-60 and tossing it up.

 

[Maggie5]

Witts has done nothing at a sustained level in either our AFL or VFL teams to suggest that he has the makings of a No.1 ruckman at another club. The recent VFL prelim final loss was the perfect job interview for him to sell his services with a dominant performance. Depending on who you listen to, he either failed or barely scraped in for a pass mark. Hardly the kind of thing to drive a bidding war among opposition recruiters. He is certainly tall and bulky but isn't a combative enforcer, nor is he a mobile marking target. He looks like Tarzan but plays like Jane. Height alone might be enough to jag a second-rounder but that's about all we can realistically hope for, IMO.

Surely one game where the team was soundly beaten doesn't define a player?
Depends how much the team that wants him is prepared to give up.
Doesn't look like the Tarzans I have seen at the movies, getting a bit stale that one.

 

[NT.Thunder]

Good grief.

I know everyone gets excited. But Breust has had how many consecutive seasons with 40+ goals?

Breust is worth a hell of a lot.

This thread - ridiculous optimism combined with incomprehensible pessimism.

Witts has been stated to be worth a pick in the 20s, multiple times. 23 year old, 6'10" ruckman who anyone with eyes can see is not playing because there is a better ruck in front of him. I don't know what sport you've been watching all these years if you don't understand Witts' value in the trade market.

Brown and Daicos is awesome for us as Brown, despite being an AA, isn't projected to go top 30. Looks like we might get them for a steal.

I also don't understand the Mayne and Wells hate. Mayne has gone backwards on a terrible team, was great in full flight and is uber defensive minded. Love it.
Re: Wells - how often do you get to steal a finals team's (possibly) best player? I know he's old, but look around the league. We are one of the only team's without old players.

I LOVE the moves we're looking to make and we don't even have to trade anything to land Wells, Mayne.

And through those moves we keep N. Brown?? Awesome! We neeeed him.

Those super negative-Nellies, you need to watch another team's trade period. Most are amateur hour. We are very very good during trade/FA the period. All the attacks we get essentially proves it. Only people who attack Collingwood are those stressed out that we are making good moves

Wow - this post combines ridiculous optimism combined with incomprehensible pessimism with a touch of excitement with subtle undertones of a negative-Nellie.

Welcome to bigfooty where everyone has their opinion and we respect them for that. There's no right or wrong at this stage, there's nothing outside of our reach should we be prepared to make a realistic play and Witt's value is worth what the market is willing to pay, that we just don't know yet.

 

[dlammardo]

'12 was considered a good draft. '13 was highly touted and ended up that way. Peoples perceived views of the draft are a part of the consideration but not significant. You'll find these reference points get used a lot.

Hickey and Longer were both going along at a pretty average level at the time in poor sides. Witts is considered a very good prospect who cant get a game bc of Grundy and coaches dont want to play 2. He is considered as if not maybe more favourably. Also the clubs that are chasing him do need a solution now. Lions def do but probably heartened by Smith. he is still a kid though. Suns maybe less so as Nicholls is ok but Currie went past him at times this year and my understanding is nobody was really chasing him. I think the Swans and GWS will have a crack at him. There will be loads of questions being asked about him.

Just my view. Probably wrong.

You're not wrong, we have differing opinions. I personally would love a second rd for him, but given Lions & Suns are keen on going to the draft and Swans/GWS have a competent ruck stock atm (so they'd be getting him as a 2nd ruck), it'd be hard to see it happening. Fingers crossed I'm wrong though. I think he has lost currency since last yr. TBH I'd rather him stay, but can't blame the bloke for wanting more opportunities

 

[orion21]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...n/news-story/3631ba9b2313598986b1a314c615a3f9

Good article by Buckenara.........

 

[Apex36]

Who said he was a dud?

All I'm saying is, I fail to see how they're perfect picks when people are talking 3rd and 4th rounds which we get 20% discount. I'd love to know the hit rate of solid players in that region, yet that seems to be a pressing need for us due to their last names.

I'd much rather both be rated top 10 and us working out how we're going to get them, then have them rated picks 30-60 and tossing it up.

I think you've gone too far to the other end of the spectrum with the boys ratings here. They've been consistently mooted as second and third round prospects, with some keener watchers even rating both as second round prospects. In a draft that's reportedly quite deep, that's not too shabby.

 

[TreloartoMoore]

Who said he was a dud?

All I'm saying is, I fail to see how they're perfect picks when people are talking 3rd and 4th rounds which we get 20% discount. I'd love to know the hit rate of solid players in that region, yet that seems to be a pressing need for us due to their last names.

I'd much rather both be rated top 10 and us working out how we're going to get them, then have them rated picks 30-60 and tossing it up.

Yes I think we'd all prefer that. No one said they were perfect. I just keep reading this narrative that getting them cripples our draft/trade strategy. Don't see how.

 

[TreloartoMoore]

Wow - this post combines ridiculous optimism combined with incomprehensible pessimism with a touch of excitement with subtle undertones of a negative-Nellie.

Welcome to bigfooty where everyone has their opinion and we respect them for that. There's no right or wrong at this stage, there's nothing outside of our reach should we be prepared to make a realistic play and Witt's value is worth what the market is willing to pay, that we just don't know yet.

why the f*** does everyone get so upset?

Chill out

 

[Lethal06]

You're ri

Surely one game where the team was soundly beaten doesn't define a player?
Depends how much the team that wants him is prepared to give up.
Doesn't look like the Tarzans I have seen at the movies, getting a bit stale that one.

You're right. Witts is much heavier and less agile than Tarzan. If he swung from a vine, it would snap. Bad comparison. I agree too that a player shouldn't be judged on one game. But Witts has been a Collingwood player for how many years now and never managed to properly establish himself. Can you think of a career defining/highlight game that he has played? Mason Cox has done more on the big stage in a fraction of the time and without any background in the sport.

I find it amazing how harshly Grundy is often judged on here, while Witts' underwhelming development sneaks under the radar. Grundy is the younger and smaller of the two but is a much more naturally-competitive beast. Witts seems to be waiting for someone to gift-wrap the No.1 ruck job for him, rather than going and taking it for himself. Anyway, we'll see what happens. I'm happy to look like a goose if we score a first rounder for him. That will be a brilliant outcome for Collingwood FC.

 

[Maggie5]

You're ri

You're right. Witts is much heavier and less agile than Tarzan. If he swung from a vine, it would snap. Bad comparison. I agree too that a player shouldn't be judged on one game. But Witts has been a Collingwood player for how many years now and never managed to properly establish himself. Can you think of a career defining/highlight game that he has played? Mason Cox has done more on the big stage in a fraction of the time and without any background in the sport.

I find it amazing how harshly Grundy is often judged on here, while Witts' underwhelming development sneaks under the radar. Grundy is the younger and smaller of the two but is a much more naturally-competitive beast. Witts seems to be waiting for someone to gift-wrap the No.1 ruck job for him, rather than going and taking it for himself. Anyway, we'll see what happens. I'm happy to look like a goose if we score a first rounder for him. That will be a brilliant outcome for Collingwood FC.

Sarcasm really doesn't suit you but okay.

 

[NT.Thunder]

why the f*** does everyone get so upset?

Chill out

My apologies - I misread your post for having a crack at magpie bigfooty posters for expressing their own opinion.

For that I am sorry

 

[Scodog10]

Yes I think we'd all prefer that. No one said they were perfect. I just keep reading this narrative that getting them cripples our draft/trade strategy. Don't see how.

IDK, you went pretty close when you said they were awesome for us and Brown a steal at 30...

 

[mattys123]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...n/news-story/3631ba9b2313598986b1a314c615a3f9

Good article by Buckenara.........

Yeah was about to post that same article, one of the more detailed assessments I've seen.

I don't agree with all of it but he does hit the nail on the head that we haven't recruited any quality key position players outside of Moore and Grundy in the past few years.

Buckennara obviously has list management experience and it shows, some other so called journalists (ex players) could learn from an article like this.

I also like that he doesn't write off getting Dal Santo or Wells completely. We shouldn't, as long as it's for the right price and length.

 

[TradeDraft]

Yeah was about to post that same article, one of the more detailed assessments I've seen.

I don't agree with all of it but he does hit the nail on the head that we haven't recruited any quality key position players outside of Moore and Grundy in the past few years.

Buckennara obviously has list management experience and it shows, some other so called journalists (ex players) could learn from an article like this.

I also like that he doesn't write off getting Dal Santo or Wells completely. We shouldn't, as long as it's for the right price and length.

Doubt we will get Del Santo but Wells is looking more Likely as we get closer to the FA Period

 

[RupetFan]

what was I told this at a breakfast this morning by a my source. (take it however you like)

Daniel Wells is a Pie lock it in, told Collingwood he'll accept the deal. Likely he'll be announced first day of open Free Agency as a Pie.
WHE situation has been same, wants to come back to Melbourne wants to be a Pie.
Gubby really really wants James Stewart at the club because lack of KPF. Blues should get him.
Mayne also a lock agreed to a deal, apparently not on as much money as some say..
Marley Williams is keen on a trade but not home....wants to stay in Melbourne and Richmond are keen watch this space.
Goodyear & Gault were told yesterday they would not be offered another deal.

Edited: Brown is 50/50 but Roos will more than likely trade for him to not off set their compo for Wells. Was also reported on SEN this morning I think,

 

[FuManchu]

Surely one game where the team was soundly beaten doesn't define a player?
Depends how much the team that wants him is prepared to give up.
Doesn't look like the Tarzans I have seen at the movies, getting a bit stale that one.

No, one game doesn't, but a season where he barely played in the ones and a career thus far characterised by a non aggressive attitude defines where he is at and most probably what his career will end up looking like.

Some are born with mongrel, sadly he wasn't.

 

[nahnah]

what was I told this at a breakfast this morning by a my source. (take it however you like)

Daniel Wells is a Pie lock it in, told Collingwood he'll accept the deal. Likely he'll be announced first day of open Free Agency as a Pie.
WHE situation has been same, wants to come back to Melbourne wants to be a Pie.
Gubby really really wants James Stewart at the club because lack of KPF. Blues should get him.
Mayne also a lock agreed to a deal, apparently not on as much money as some say..
Marley Williams is keen on a trade but not home....wants to stay in Melbourne and Richmond are keen watch this space.
Goodyear & Gault were told yesterday they would not be offered another deal.

Does your source have a good track record?

 

[Maggie5]

No, one game doesn't, but a season where he barely played in the ones and a career thus far characterised by a non aggressive attitude defines where he is at and most probably what his career will end up looking like.

Some are born with mongrel, sadly he wasn't.

That seems to be the general consensus on here but imo he does have a football brain, not sure which is of better value.

Once Grundy improved (after been given a number of opportunities), seems the idea of two rucks went out of consideration.

Still think he will be a good pickup for a team, that doesn't require a mongrel ruckman.

 

[Snoop Dog]

what was I told this at a breakfast this morning by a my source. (take it however you like)

Daniel Wells is a Pie lock it in, told Collingwood he'll accept the deal. Likely he'll be announced first day of open Free Agency as a Pie.
WHE situation has been same, wants to come back to Melbourne wants to be a Pie.
Gubby really really wants James Stewart at the club because lack of KPF. Blues should get him.
Mayne also a lock agreed to a deal, apparently not on as much money as some say..
Marley Williams is keen on a trade but not home....wants to stay in Melbourne and Richmond are keen watch this space.
Goodyear & Gault were told yesterday they would not be offered another deal.

Not v different to what I have heard and relaxed about all of it.
Re Stewart am told GWS keen for him to stay, I think more settled there and a chance but Blues might hand over 5 for both he and CM and if hes happy there will go there.
Early days on that one though.

 

[Maggie5]

Marley Williams is keen on a trade but not home....wants to stay in Melbourne and Richmond are keen watch this space.

Wonder what that would involve as an exchange?

 

[RupetFan]

Does your source have a good track record?

He got the Brown/Wells situation right that i "tried" to report because it was confusing lol. He's pretty good with Collingwood/Carlton stuff.

 

[RupetFan]

Not v different to what I have heard and relaxed about all of it.
Re Stewart am told GWS keen for him to stay, I think more settled there and a chance but Blues might hand over 5 for both he and CM and if hes happy there will go there.
Early days on that one though.

Blues don't want to hand over 5 this year. They might give their 2017 first rounder but Carlton are now very sensitive about first round picks. Unless a huge star comes they aren't going trade em.

 

[Go Pies!!!!!]

That seems to be the general consensus on here but imo he does have a football brain, not sure which is of better value.

Once Grundy improved (after been given a number of opportunities), seems the idea of two rucks went out of consideration.

Still think he will be a good pickup for a team, that doesn't require a mongrel ruckman.

2 rucks were never gonna work when you have a players like Witts who doesn't put the effort in when he gets the chance!! If he could find another gear or 2 who knows what he can do.

 

[TradeDraft]

what was I told this at a breakfast this morning by a my source. (take it however you like)

Daniel Wells is a Pie lock it in, told Collingwood he'll accept the deal. Likely he'll be announced first day of open Free Agency as a Pie.
WHE situation has been same, wants to come back to Melbourne wants to be a Pie.
Gubby really really wants James Stewart at the club because lack of KPF. Blues should get him.
Mayne also a lock agreed to a deal, apparently not on as much money as some say..
Marley Williams is keen on a trade but not home....wants to stay in Melbourne and Richmond are keen watch this space.
Goodyear & Gault were told yesterday they would not be offered another deal.

Thanks for Sharing that Info RupetFan