List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade Talk 2016 part 2 - see Mod Warning p 281

[sloth6]

He got the Brown/Wells situation right that i "tried" to report because it was confusing lol. He's pretty good with Collingwood/Carlton stuff.

Did he mention anything about Collingwood meeting with Jay Kennedy Harris? Also met with Carlton I believe. Opportunities may be limited at Dees.

 

[RupetFan]

Did he mention anything about Collingwood meeting with Jay Kennedy Harris? Also met with Carlton I believe. Opportunities may be limited at Dees.

No haven't heard anything about that sorry.

 

[Pedro]

No one on their list besides Martin and maybe Riwoldt is elite or worth anything.

I reckon we could slot Rance in somewhere

 

[RupetFan]

I reckon we could slot Rance in somewhere

Forgot him... Elite but overrated.

 

[barrackers]

With both Witts and Jong being touted as possible Gold Coast recruits it would be nice if we could use Cloke to upgrade the pick received for Witts instead of getting a scrappy later pick. Gold Coast are after players more than picks and a first round pick this year would allow us to trade ours in 2017 or 2018, so maybe something like this works?

Coll
IN: 14
OUT: Cloke, Witts

GC
IN: Jong, Witts + Hawthorn player?
OUT: JOM, 40

Haw
IN: JOM
OUT: 14, player?

WB
IN: Cloke, 40
OUT: Jong

 

[TradeDraft]

Can FA name there Club before FA Officaly Start

 

[jhndos]

Breust in my opinion is a player we dont need (this is a mute point as we dont have the ability of getting him without losing a player we cant lose). We already have a player that can play Swans role and that's Sidey .

Our issues #1 is a need for better delivery from a rotating Treloare, Pendles,Adams,Wells, Degoey,Crisp, Varcoe, Wills,and whoever else we place in there.
And # 2 A Forward set up that will not kill Moore like we killed Cloke and Fraser . Cox and White are not the answer.
Why cant we go after a Sam Reid yes i know his injured, but if we can get him fit and on the park surely he wont cost a fortune to get ?.

Roll on 2018 if we dont waste the $$ on just saving "Bucks" for coach, we can a have crack at someone worth the $$$ . Again though it will come down to us being able to get someone to our club without breaking the back of the Cap . Hawthorn clearly lead the way with players being at the club for unders and getting the success .

 

[Roverjg]

Whi

Who said he was a dud?

All I'm saying is, I fail to see how they're perfect picks when people are talking 3rd and 4th rounds which we get 20% discount. I'd love to know the hit rate of solid players in that region, yet that seems to be a pressing need for us due to their last names.

I'd much rather both be rated top 10 and us working out how we're going to get them, then have them rated picks 30-60 and tossing it up.

lst I understand where you are coming from. Gary Ablett Jnr would not have been drafted at all in 2001 but for being a pick under the father/son rule. Geelong supporters went into meltdown and bombarded the club with complaints claiming decent players were overlooked in the draft to get a player who was only being picked based on his surname. He was not much chop for Modewarre juniors or Geelong Falcons, nor was he picked in the U19 All Australian Team. Look how he turned out.

 

[TradeDraft]

This is what Gary Buckenara wrote last year about us:

COLLINGWOOD has had its two-year finals sabbatical and now it’s time for the Pies to return to September action.

Nathan Buckley has a number of quality young players on his list and the sky is the limit for the group next season – finals are a non-negotiable and even challenging for a premiership isn’t out of the question.

The Pies have promised a fair bit – everyone at the club says they’re happy with what they’ve got and are excited about what the team can do going forward – but the fact is they’ve dropped away two years in a row.

It was inexperience that cost them this season, while bad luck with injuries also played a role but as a club internally, they’d still be disappointed.

There’s some real class in the midfield led by Scott Pendlebury, up forward with Jamie Elliott and Steele Sidebottom is a clever player to name a couple. But on the list as a whole I agree with them – there is some real upside and now they just need to start delivering.

What has held them back a bit – and I’ll go into this in a bit more depth a bit later in this column – is that their ball movement stalls or gets cut off because there aren’t enough penetrating kickers in the team.

There are good young players in Darcy Moore, Brayden Maynard, Jonathon Marsh and Matthew Scharenberg who will be a very, very good player. Travis Varcoe has added something, Marley Williams provides good run from defence but can be erratic with his kicking and Tom Langdon reads the ball really well but needs to work on getting a better punch into his use by foot.

In terms of trading, GWS midfielder Adam Treloar is expected to arrive and he’s a really good player who’ll add something more to Pendlebury, Levi Greenwood, Taylor Adams, Jack Crisp and Jordan De Goey. In terms of trade value though, it’s expected the Pies with give up their first-round picks in 2015 and 2016 and get a second-round pick back but to me, pick No. 7 this year would have been adequate to secure him. It would be fair and reasonable compensation.

In this draft, to get a pick inside 10 is very, very good value particularly because of the lack of depth in it and that adds value.

With the addition of Treloar, the midfield is very good. In terms of James Aish who also wants to head to the Pies, I’m not convinced. He’s not overly quick but does have good skills. Overall though, I think they have enough of his type.

Forwards are more a priority and Melbourne’s Jeremy Howe is a very good fit. He can slot into that forward role and present a genuine marking option to take the heat off Travis Cloke a bit.

Paul Seedsman wants to go to Adelaide and they’d be after a pick inside No. 30 for him. A second-round pick for Nathan Freeman is also around the mark although they are disappointed to lose him.

All in all, Buckley has a very talented group to work with in 2016 but talent only takes you so far. The Pies must deliver on promise and play finals.

WHAT THEY NEED
There is a reasonable balance to Collingwood’s list but the priorities for me would be another key forward and key defender and line-breakers with pace and who use the ball well.

It goes without saying that the Pies are still too reliant on Cloke and Jesse White who goes missing too often. Moore will develop into a nice key position player but need to put on a bit of weight but I think they need to add another one.

If Ben Reid can get himself right then that puts the Pies in a much better position but I think another key defender wouldn’t go astray.

The Pies have quite a few in-and-under types –Adams, Greenwood, Jarryd Blair, Maynard is tough but is also a lovely kick, even Dane Swan is that type of player, so that is where the line-breakers and good ball users who add class become important.

Collingwood have too many guys who have what we call “slow kicks”. They can kick it ok but it has too much height on it and gives the opposition a chance to cut them off. More players who really punch the ball when they kick it so it gets there fast are important for the Pies.

WHO’S UNDER THE PUMP

Jackson Ramsay is under the pump despite showing good signs earlier this year given he has been there since 2012. He needs to get his body right after missing so many games with a shin injury. The same goes for Ben Sinclair who has consistently battled soft tissue injuries and has only played 11 games in his last two years.

WHO SHOULD GO
Sam Dwyer, Clinton Young, Tony Armstrong and Michael Manteit have already been delisted and they’ve made the right calls there because all those guys were on my list as under the pump for 2016. Patrick Karnezis was also on the list but he’s opted to retire. Other than that it’s hard to say because the Pies do have such a young list, I need to see more of these kids.

CRYSTAL BALL

For mine, the Pies have been disappointing the last couple of years even though they have been in a bit of a development/re-jig mode. It’s time for them to start delivering.

I seem them being a contender next year – as I said earlier as a minimum should play finals in 2016 – but if not next year in terms of challenging then definitely in 2-3 years the Pies should be knocking on the door of winning a premiership.

There should be good times ahead and not just as one year on, one year off. Collingwood look set for sustained success with the group of talented young players they’ve assembled plus the football a guy like Dane Swan still has left to offer. I reckon he’s got a few more years left in him yet.

LACHIE KEEFFE AND JOSH THOMAS

They’ve been delisted by the Pies who have committed to bringing them back via the rookie draft and I think that’s a really smart move. They were showing really good signs as players – Keeffe as that key position player they need and Thomas as another midfielder. They made a terrible mistake but I believe because of the talent they’ve shown, they’re definitely worth a second chance.

Changed his Tune on a Few Players. Really Changed his Tune on Aish

 

[Scodog10]

what was I told this at a breakfast this morning by a my source. (take it however you like)

Daniel Wells is a Pie lock it in, told Collingwood he'll accept the deal. Likely he'll be announced first day of open Free Agency as a Pie.
WHE situation has been same, wants to come back to Melbourne wants to be a Pie.
Gubby really really wants James Stewart at the club because lack of KPF. Blues should get him.
Mayne also a lock agreed to a deal, apparently not on as much money as some say..
Marley Williams is keen on a trade but not home....wants to stay in Melbourne and Richmond are keen watch this space.
Goodyear & Gault were told yesterday they would not be offered another deal.

Edited: Brown is 50/50 but Roos will more than likely trade for him to not off set their compo for Wells. Was also reported on SEN this morning I think,

Yeah I'm just flat out not buying the Brown/ Wells trade stuff. The more thought you put into it the less sense it makes! I'm going to chat to someone about it, but right now unless we rate Brown at pick 29 or worse we're getting shafted on it...

 

[NT.Thunder]

Whi

lst I understand where you are coming from. Gary Ablett Jnr would not have been drafted at all in 2001 but for being a pick under the father/son rule. Geelong supporters went into meltdown and bombarded the club with complaints claiming decent players were overlooked in the draft to get a player who was only being picked based on his surname. He was not much chop for Modewarre juniors or Geelong Falcons, nor was he picked in the U19 All Australian Team. Look how he turned out.

He actually took a while in the AFL to really develop, probably 4 or 5 years IIRC, was nothing real special but also lacked opportunity I guess with one of the best midfields in the comp at the time but I digress.

 

[mike123]

Don't see any speedsters in the Dawks back half, in fact they're slow.
It's ball use that makes them look quick. Move it quickly and accurately to the runners up the ground.

Burgoyne, Duryea and Gibson are pretty quick.

 

[barrackers]

Yeah I'm just flat out not buying the Brown/ Wells trade stuff. The more thought you put into it the less sense it makes! I'm going to chat to someone about it, but right now unless we rate Brown at pick 29 or worse we're getting shafted on it...

The other factor is recruiting Mayne would push the Brown compo (pick 29 or worse) back even further. If we're to lose Brown it's a win for us as much as the roos if they're forced to trade for him. A greater win would be keeping Brown.

 

[adammania9]

With both Witts and Jong being touted as possible Gold Coast recruits it would be nice if we could use Cloke to upgrade the pick received for Witts instead of getting a scrappy later pick. Gold Coast are after players more than picks and a first round pick this year would allow us to trade ours in 2017 or 2018, so maybe something like this works?

Coll
IN: 14
OUT: Cloke, Witts

GC
IN: Jong, Witts + Hawthorn player?
OUT: JOM, 40

Haw
IN: JOM
OUT: 14, player?

WB
IN: Cloke, 40
OUT: Jong

That's a deal and a half for Collingwood - unfortunately the other half is at Gold Coast, as that is a terrible deal for them.

 

[barrackers]

That's a deal and a half for Collingwood - unfortunately the other half is at Gold Coast, as that is a terrible deal for them.

It probably comes down to the quality of the hawks player. Pick 40 from GC is pretty much redundant and unlikely to be used by them given their numerous early picks and another one likely for Prestia. I have Witts valued at 20-35; is a 5-10 pick upgrade fair value for Cloke?

 

[Scodog10]

The other factor is recruiting Mayne would push the Brown compo (pick 29 or worse) back even further. If we're to lose Brown it's a win for us as much as the roos if they're forced to trade for him. A greater win would be keeping Brown.

Nah I'm thinking of 29 under the trade scenario which is the absolute best outcome possible for seeing Brown traded because it relies on Wells being band 2.

The more likely scenario is that Wells is band 3 and Brown is traded to North for their 3rd rounder (ignoring that they trade a pick in from 35 onwards) and there'd be no point in North just trading their compo pick straight back to us.

Weighing it all up if Brown is 50/50 why would we even hesitate in offering him a better deal given our KPP stocks and the likely trade compensation would be meh at best? I know people are thinking we're creating a pick for ourselves, but the reality is quite different...

 

[RupetFan]

Yeah I'm just flat out not buying the Brown/ Wells trade stuff. The more thought you put into it the less sense it makes! I'm going to chat to someone about it, but right now unless we rate Brown at pick 29 or worse we're getting shafted on it...

What? We get a better deal if North trade for him. We get a good pick instead a shit compo we'd get for getting Mayne/Wells. Makes sense.

 

[RupetFan]

Burgoyne, Duryea and Gibson are pretty quick.

Gibsons slow.

 

[Scodog10]

What? We get a better deal if North trade for him. We get a good pick instead a shit compo we'd get for getting Mayne/Wells. Makes sense.

I genuinely don't think you've thought the scenario through and just concocted this story so we'll see how it pans out. The reason I say that is Brown is a FA so they have no need to give us any worthwhile currency.

 

[TradeDraft]

How Much Compo would we get for Brown who was not in the Best 22 all year and played a VFL Footy During the Season

 

[barrackers]

Nah I'm thinking of 29 under the trade scenario which is the absolute best outcome possible for seeing Brown traded because it relies on Wells being band 2.

The more likely scenario is that Wells is band 3 and Brown is traded to North for their 3rd rounder (ignoring that they trade a pick in from 35 onwards) and there'd be no point in North just trading their compo pick straight back to us.

Weighing it all up if Brown is 50/50 why would we even hesitate in offering him a better deal given our KPP stocks and the likely trade compensation would be meh at best? I know people are thinking we're creating a pick for ourselves, but the reality is quite different...

The only way I can see a Brown NM trade working is if Wells attracts band 2 compo and they trade us a third round pick for Brown. Essentially NM would gain Brown and move up 1 round in the draft and we gain Wells and a third round pick. Like you said however we'd be better off keeping Brown for the sake of an extra third round pick. It would be madness to lose both Brown and Frost in the same off season.

 

[Anzacday]

We need Cox to come on too. If he can.

Yes I'm hoping he can grow into his role.

 

[NT.Thunder]

Yes I'm hoping he can grow into his role.

I think we should keep him in wraps for the moment just to be safe - you know

 

[DAWESOME!!]

I think it is overload to bring Breust in.
We, fingers crossed will get Elliott back. We are bringing in Wells and Mayne as FA. We might even recruit a crumming forward and word is that that is what the club is targeting at the draft, no I'm not saying that player is going to produce equal to Breust. You also need to consider we will have to trade for him, and he won't come cheap, I just think we'd be trading overs for someone coming out as a FA next year.

Buckenara is right, we lack KPF's and KPD's. We need Keeffe to come back strong, Marsh to come on, and Reid to stay injury free, White to play like he did in 2016, Moore to improve. Moore is the big concern, holding up the forward line at such a young age.

KPF is our biggest target, throw the kitchen sink at Lynch or Wright next year and we are on our way. Who knows, Smith, Thomas and a lesser extent Keeffe could improve and be a juicy part of that trade to make that happen.

Disagree that a KPF is a bigger need than a top notch running/crumbing forward like Breust. Fasolo is a mobile marking forward who can crumb a bit. Elliott, assuming he's fit, is the same. Around Moore as a top notch KPF, what we need to complement them is a crumber.

Not many teams are going to be playing two genuine KPFs.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

Did he mention anything about Collingwood meeting with Jay Kennedy Harris? Also met with Carlton I believe. Opportunities may be limited at Dees.

I hope you're right! I rate him quite high.