Autopsy Collingwood: Where to from here?

[Jake98]

Collingwood have the oldest list in the AFL.
They are set to re-sign Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Mason Cox

46

Mason Cox

Age

33

Ht

211cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.7

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.2

4star

D

6.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.3

2star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.8

5star

and co for another year, and could go down as the oldest squad ever in 2025.
They lost one of their most important players in Nathan Murphy

28

Nathan Murphy

Age

24

Ht

192cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.5

3star

K

6.5

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.5

3star

MG

176.5

3star

No current season stats available

D

11.5

3star

K

6.5

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.5

4star

MG

176.5

3star

to concussion, and his replacement Billy Frampton

17

Billy Frampton

Age

27

Ht

201cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.1

2star

K

5.1

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

3.1

3star

T

0.7

3star

MG

99.0

2star

D

8.5

2star

K

4.8

2star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.5

3star

T

0.5

1star

MG

99.0

2star

D

9.2

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

1.0

3star

MG

107.0

2star

isn't even 1/4 as good.
Amongst their under 23 players, they have Nick Daicos and not much else. McCreery is pretty decent. Richards and McInnes look set to find new clubs.
They missed the finals this year.
They have no first round draft pick (traded for Lachie Schultz last year).
Their VFL team is second bottom on the VFL ladder.
Their highly CEO Graham Wright decided he's not returning.

Recent reports indicate they're looking to bring in experienced players again during the off-season and have yet another crack at winning a flag with the old guys still hanging on.

Taking all this into account, what course of action should they be taking? Go the Geelong route of trying to eek out one more flag? Or should they prioritise addressing the age demographic of their squad?

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Collingwood have the oldest list in the AFL.
They are set to re-sign Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Mason Cox and co for another year, and could go down as the oldest squad ever in 2025.
They lost one of their most important players in Nathan Murphy to concussion, and his replacement Billy Frampton isn't even 1/4 as good.
Amongst their under 23 players, they have Nick Daicos and not much else. McCreery is pretty decent. Richards and McInnes look set to find new clubs.
They missed the finals this year.
They have no first round draft pick (traded for Lachie Schultz last year).
Their VFL team is second bottom on the VFL ladder.
Their highly CEO Graham Wright decided he's not returning.

Recent reports indicate they're looking to bring in experienced players again during the off-season and have yet another crack at winning a flag with the old guys still hanging on.

Taking all this into account, what course of action should they be taking? Go the Geelong route of trying to eek out one more flag? Or should they prioritise addressing the age demographic of their squad?

They're going straight towards the bottom of the ladder and personally I'm looking forward to it quite a bit

 

[Jake98]

Also looking back a few years, that 2020 off-season disaster is really starting to burn.

The 2020 draft is looking like one of the worst drafts ever, which is hardly a surprise given the flu put a stop to all youth level competitions. This was the draft Collingwood decided to attack, trading out their future first and future second picks (and Adam Treloar

1

Adam Treloar

Age

31

Ht

185cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

28.2

5star

K

12.9

5star

HB

15.3

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

4.9

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

30.3

5star

K

16.3

5star

HB

14.0

5star

M

2.0

2star

T

3.3

4star

CL

5.8

5star

D

18.0

5star

K

11.2

4star

HB

6.8

5star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.6

4star

CL

1.6

4star

) to boost their 2020 draft hand with the knowledge they'd get Nick Daicos the next year.

With their first five picks (three first rounders and two second rounders), they picked up Oliver Henry(gone), Finlay Macrae, Reef McInnes(likely gone), Caleb Poulter(gone) and Liam McMahon(gone).

Then they went on to finish second bottom in 2021. This draft is shaping up to be one of the strongest drafts ever, with quite possibly the greatest top 5 picks of all time. They would've had pick 2, two picks earlier than the Nick Daicos bid, and could've selected either Finn Callaghan or Mac Andrew.

 

[beerbandit]

 

[beerbandit]

Also looking back a few years, that 2020 off-season disaster is really starting to burn.

The 2020 draft is looking like one of the worst drafts ever, which is hardly a surprise given the flu put a stop to all youth level competitions. This was the draft Collingwood decided to attack, trading out their future first and future second picks (and Adam Treloar) to boost their 2020 draft hand with the knowledge they'd get Nick Daicos the next year.

With their first five picks (three first rounders and two second rounders), they picked up Oliver Henry(gone), Finlay Macrae, Reef McInnes(likely gone), Caleb Poulter(gone) and Liam McMahon(gone).

Then they went on to finish second bottom in 2021. This draft is shaping up to be one of the strongest drafts ever, with quite possibly the greatest top 5 picks of all time. They would've had pick 2, two picks earlier than the Nick Daicos bid, and could've selected either Finn Callaghan or Mac Andrew.

They must of done something right. They did win the Premiership in 2023.

 

[Jake98]

They must of done something right. They did win the Premiership in 2023.

Not denying that at all. Clearly you picked the right coach who got the best out of an aging squad.

That being said, the 2020 off-season remains a disaster, and the state of Collingwood's 23-under players is oof-inducing to say the least.

 

[beerbandit]

Not denying that at all. Clearly you picked the right coach who got the best out of an aging squad.

That being said, the 2020 off-season remains a disaster, and the state of Collingwood's 23-under players is oof-inducing to say the least.

Well we do have the best player under 23 in the AFL.

 

[Jake98]

Well we do have the best player under 23 in the AFL.

Who is also your only good player under 23.

 

[PhatBoy]

Hmmm, waiting and hoping for a recently successful club to fall base over apex. Where have I seen this before??

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Hmmm, waiting and hoping for a recently successful club to fall base over apex. Where have I seen this before??

Cats, Pies and Swans are pretty much always up there, powerhouses, we'll be fine

Boys just weren't fit enough this year, bludged all summer

 

[Dangerousfield]

Also looking back a few years, that 2020 off-season disaster is really starting to burn.

The 2020 draft is looking like one of the worst drafts ever, which is hardly a surprise given the flu put a stop to all youth level competitions. This was the draft Collingwood decided to attack, trading out their future first and future second picks (and Adam Treloar) to boost their 2020 draft hand with the knowledge they'd get Nick Daicos the next year.

With their first five picks (three first rounders and two second rounders), they picked up Oliver Henry(gone), Finlay Macrae, Reef McInnes(likely gone), Caleb Poulter(gone) and Liam McMahon(gone).

Then they went on to finish second bottom in 2021. This draft is shaping up to be one of the strongest drafts ever, with quite possibly the greatest top 5 picks of all time. They would've had pick 2, two picks earlier than the Nick Daicos bid, and could've selected either Finn Callaghan or Mac Andrew.

2020/2021 is delicious! I remember the disastrous presser given by Ned Guy, it was almost painful to watch his explanation of what they were doing, but we all force ourselves to watch car crashes. Still paying half a million each season for Treloar and Grundy.

Ned of course became the fall Guy, but surprise surprise he's given a cushy HQ job in yet another example of The VFL Old Boys Club at work.

Pies against the odds and with a massive dose of good luck fluke the 2023 flag.

2024 reality resumes and they now look down the barrel of uncertainty about what to do. Will no doubt go all in for whatever FAs they can lay their hands on as they have almost nothing in the way of a draft hand. We'll all be watching

 

[beerbandit]

Who is also your only good player under 23.

Not sure what you’re trying to get at with this thread.

I suppose you are just hoping for a pile on.

I’ll be happy to bump this thread next year for you.

 

[Jake98]

Cats, Pies and Swans are pretty much always up there, powerhouses, we'll be fine

Boys just weren't fit enough this year, bludged all summer

So you believe a 37 year old Pendlebury, a 34 year old Sidebottom, a 34 year old Mason Cox, a 35 year old Jeremy Howe can deliver a flag for you again next year?

 

[PhatBoy]

2020/2021 is delicious! I remember the disastrous presser given by Ned Guy, it was almost painful to watch his explanation of what they were doing, but we all force ourselves to watch car crashes. Still paying half a million each season for Treloar and Grundy.

Ned of course became the fall Guy, but surprise surprise he's given a cushy HQ job in yet another example of The VFL Old Boys Club at work.

Pies against the odds and with a massive dose of good luck fluke the 2023 flag.

2024 reality resumes and they now look down the barrel of uncertainty about what to do. Will no doubt go all in for whatever FAs they can lay their hands on as they have almost nothing in the way of a draft hand. We'll all be watching

Looks like they paid a heavy toll for it.

Winning something two years later that Adelaide, Carlton, Fremantle, St Kilda, GWS, Gold Coast, and North Melbourne haven’t been able to manage this century. Can more or less add Essendon to that list as well.

 

[PhatBoy]

So you believe a 37 year old Pendlebury, a 34 year old Sidebottom, a 34 year old Mason Cox, a 35 year old Jeremy Howe can deliver a flag for you again next year?

assuming they don’t, there will be 16 other teams that don’t win as well with far younger squads that suffer the same fate.

 

[Jake98]

Not sure what you’re trying to get at with this thread.

I suppose you are just hoping for a pile on.

I’ll be happy to bump this thread next year for you.

Ok, does this make it any clearer?

Collingwood's under-23 players. Beyond Nick Daicos there isn't much there.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Ok, does this make it any clearer?

Collingwood's under-23 players. Beyond Nick Daicos there isn't much there.

Hard to be pessimistic when you've got Nick Daicos

Bring on next year

 

[beerbandit]

Ok, does this make it any clearer?

Collingwood's under-23 players. Beyond Nick Daicos there isn't much there.

LOL

Are you trying to “school” me on the team I support ? Oh my!

Where is the proven formula that you need “under 23s” to be successful? We have a plethora of top talent at the 28/29 range.

Pies also have a lot of salary cap space to improve there list in the coming 2/3 years through FA.

We also have a bloke by the name of Nick Daicos.

Don’t worry about the Pies jakey boy, we don’t stay down for long ever.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

He's got a bucketload of similar posts about Geelong too. Looks like he gave up trying to milk that and has moved onto you guys instead.

Oddly enough, he has very few posts about Sydney - the team he allegedly 'supports'.

Pretty obvious what's going on.

 

[Jake98]

LOL

Are you trying to “school” me on the team I support ? Oh my!

Where is the proven formula that you need “under 23s” to be successful? We have a plethora of top talent at the 28/29 range.

Pies also have a lot of salary cap space to improve there list in the coming 2/3 years through FA.

We also have a bloke by the name of Nick Daicos.

Don’t worry about the Pies jakey boy, we don’t stay down for long ever.

Did you forget about your club drafting the likes of Dale Thomas, Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Beams, Ben Reid etc? Once upon a time they were your under-23s, and helped deliver a flag in 2010. A couple of them are still around, and helped win a flag in 2023. I think it's fair to say having a strong contingent of under-23s can go a long way for both short and long-term success.

Once upon a time Geelong's under-23s consisted of Bartel, Corey, Ablett, Kelly, Enright, Chapman, Johnson. Think it's safe to say that went a long way in establishing long-term sustained success.

A plethora of top talent in the 28-29 range? If that were the case, then perhaps Collingwood would've made top 8 this season. In this age bracket I see De Goey, Moore, Cameron and Maynard. I wouldn't call that a plethora, unless you want to sell us on the value of Oleg Markov and Billy Frampton.

Sure, Nick Daicos is a quality player, but just like Sheezel at North Melbourne, there is only so much he can do in a team with limited quality.

I know you're keen to play down the significance of an under-23 contingent, but when you have 11 players in their 30s in 2025, including some in their mid-30s, generally most clubs would want a sufficient quantity of good young players ready to take their spots. The 28-29 year olds aren't going to replace the likes of Pendlebury or Sidebottom because they're already in the team. This is precisely where the value of good under-23s lies.

It is silly to think having a lot of salary cap space will provision for the current shortage of young talent. There are plenty of clubs with a lot of cap space who are much better positioned to challenge for Premierships short & long term. It's extremely difficult to convince even one high quality player to join, let alone 6-8 Collingwood need to replace the old guys.

 

[PhatBoy]

Did you forget about your club drafting the likes of Dale Thomas, Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Beams, Ben Reid etc? Once upon a time they were your under-23s, and helped deliver a flag in 2010. A couple of them are still around, and helped win a flag in 2023. I think it's fair to say having a strong contingent of under-23s can go a long way for both short and long-term success.

Once upon a time Geelong's under-23s consisted of Bartel, Corey, Ablett, Kelly, Enright, Chapman, Johnson. Think it's safe to say that went a long way in establishing long-term sustained success.

A plethora of top talent in the 28-29 range? If that were the case, then perhaps Collingwood would've made top 8 this season. In this age bracket I see De Goey, Moore, Cameron and Maynard. I wouldn't call that a plethora, unless you want to sell us on the value of Oleg Markov and Billy Frampton.

Sure, Nick Daicos is a quality player, but just like Sheezel at North Melbourne, there is only so much he can do in a team with limited quality.

I know you're keen to play down the significance of an under-23 contingent, but when you have 11 players in their 30s in 2025, including some in their mid-30s, generally most clubs would want a sufficient quantity of good young players ready to take their spots. The 28-29 year olds aren't going to replace the likes of Pendlebury or Sidebottom because they're already in the team. This is precisely where the value of good under-23s lies.

It is silly to think having a lot of salary cap space will provision for the present lack of young talent. There are plenty of clubs with a lot of cap space who are much better positioned to challenge for Premierships short & long term. It's extremely difficult to convince even one high quality player to join, let alone 6-8 Collingwood need to replace the old guys.

How good do you think any of those players were when they were 18-22?
Collingwood have barely even played any of their players in that age bracket. How the hell would you know if they’re any good

 

[Jake98]

How good do you think any of those players were when they were 18-22?
Collingwood have barely even played any of their players in that age bracket. How the hell would you know if they’re any good

I know you're still agitated over me scrutinizing your club's youth in a different thread, but do try to calm down.

If they were any good, they would've seen more game-time this year, particularly with all the injuries Collingwood have had. Finlay Macrae is one of their younger players they have pinned a lot of hope on, but he's been largely disappointing this year. He will be one of two players remaining from a largely disastrous 2020 draft Collingwood chose to attack hard.

 

[PhatBoy]

I know you're still agitated over me scrutinizing your club's youth in a different thread, but do try to calm down.

If they were any good, they would've seen more game-time this year, particularly with all the injuries Collingwood have had. Finlay Macrae is one of their younger players they have pinned a lot of hope on, but he's been largely disappointing this year. He will be one of two players remaining from a largely disastrous 2020 draft Collingwood chose to attack hard.

Oh yes I’m very agitated over a Tigers fan with a hawks and swans alt who has nothing better to do after watching his team win a wooden spoon trying to proselytise to the masses that a team noted for being in the top 8 for 18 of the last 21 seasons with this year’s rising star favourite and another nominee will somehow forget how to recruit and train its next generation of players

We all know that players who don’t have an incredible start to their career cannot hope to get better. We’ve seen it with Tom Hawkins, for example.

 

[beerbandit]

Did you forget about your club drafting the likes of Dale Thomas, Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Beams, Ben Reid etc? Once upon a time they were your under-23s, and helped deliver a flag in 2010. A couple of them are still around, and helped win a flag in 2023. I think it's fair to say having a strong contingent of under-23s can go a long way for both short and long-term success.

Once upon a time Geelong's under-23s consisted of Bartel, Corey, Ablett, Kelly, Enright, Chapman, Johnson. Think it's safe to say that went a long way in establishing long-term sustained success.

A plethora of top talent in the 28-29 range? If that were the case, then perhaps Collingwood would've made top 8 this season. In this age bracket I see De Goey, Moore, Cameron and Maynard. I wouldn't call that a plethora, unless you want to sell us on the value of Oleg Markov and Billy Frampton.

Sure, Nick Daicos is a quality player, but just like Sheezel at North Melbourne, there is only so much he can do in a team with limited quality.

I know you're keen to play down the significance of an under-23 contingent, but when you have 11 players in their 30s in 2025, including some in their mid-30s, generally most clubs would want a sufficient quantity of good young players ready to take their spots. The 28-29 year olds aren't going to replace the likes of Pendlebury or Sidebottom because they're already in the team. This is precisely where the value of good under-23s lies.

It is silly to think having a lot of salary cap space will provision for the current shortage of young talent. There are plenty of clubs with a lot of cap space who are much better positioned to challenge for Premierships short & long term. It's extremely difficult to convince even one high quality player to join, let alone 6-8 Collingwood need to replace the old guys.

You are putting a lot of effort into this. I take my hat off to you for that, but that’s about it.

I’m glad you think the Pies have limited “ability”.

Maybe worry about the Swans doing what Pies and Cats have done in the last 2 seasons and that’s win a flag.

But I doubt Sydney will because they have far too many players under 23 who aren’t experienced enough.

 

[Jake98]

Oh yes I’m very agitated over a Tigers fan with a hawks and swans alt who has nothing better to do after watching his team win a wooden spoon trying to proselytise to the masses that a team noted for being in the top 8 for 18 of the last 21 seasons with this year’s rising star favourite and another nominee will somehow forget how to recruit and train its next generation of players

We all know that players who don’t have an incredible start to their career cannot hope to get better. We’ve seen it with Tom Hawkins, for example.

Tom Hawkins was a highly touted young key-forward from an early age, and everyone knows key-forwards take longer to get going. There's a very big difference between a player like Tom Hawkins and someone like Jakob Ryan or Harvey Harrison. Sounds to me like you don't understand much about football, which is why you're still persisting with this nonsense about me being a Richmond supporter. You are clearly still agitated.