Opinion Commentary & Media VII

[Passmore]

The hawks were the kings of bringing in older players. Maybe not in 2008 but they won 3 in a row bringing in lake, hale, Gibson etc

Yeah, during the 12-15 period. Not pre ‘08.

They developed a core, then added to it when they could attract good players. Not washed up 35yos.

 

[hotchilli]

Stuart Dew was 28 when he joined Hawthorn for the 2008 season.

Josh Gibson was 25 when he joined them in 2010

David Hale was 26 when he joined them in 2011

Brian Lake was 30 when he joined in 2013.

It's not the same as getting someone in their mid 30s as Taylor Walker is now.

I'd say the list their profile was significantly different in terms of how they were topping up.

 

[scottywiper]

Yeah I thought he was Pies.

Cats

 

[Hojuman]

And on que, the Paddy doesn't deserve a citing or suspension.

 

[Marstermind]

I feel like there was a bit of a directive from the AFL to suck up to us after freekick-gate.


View attachment 2026035

It's faint praise.

IF
North have been utter utter crap and I was so super smart calling out their crapness from the get go

THEN
I'm still super smart because they're still utter utter crap. But maybe, just maybe, their crapness might be lessening soon.

 

[FootySmartSimpson]

What great news, the AFL's independent assessment conducted by checks notes "the AFL" has declared their rule tweak a success!

View attachment 2024870

(and of course it is a North player getting tackled in the photo!)

Apart from the Yeo one and few that went against us, I can’t remember HTB being paid since the changes. It has really reduced the value of tackles.

 

[Samsquanch]

I feel like there was a bit of a directive from the AFL to suck up to us after freekick-gate.


View attachment 2026035

Seems like the AFL forced purple to say something slightly positive with only the slightest hint of a bitterly twisted backhander.

Nice.

But it was three of the club's most decorated players and dal santo, plus, the people involved in that fiasco are well departed - it's just that it will take time to undo the damage of the scotts, joyce and luff years.

 

[FootySmartSimpson]

The rules themselves are actually quite straightforward.

1. If you’re tackled legally with prior opportunity to dispose it’s a free kick. Umpire has to make a judgement call on prior. But usually this is the easiest one to call.

2. If you get tackled without any prior opportunity you still have to make an attempt to kick or handball it. If you don’t attempt this, it’s a free. Umpire has to make a judgement call on if you’re making a legitimate attempt.

3. You can never dispose of it illegally. You must kick or handball whether you’re being tackled or not. Dropping, throwing, fake “attempting” to handball - you can’t do it. Free kick for illegal disposal.

4. The ball is allowed to incidentally “pop out” of a tackle. Umpire has to make a judgement call as to whether you’ve illegally disposed it or if it’s popped out naturally in the messiness of tackles (at the moment they’re WAY too lenient on this). Also this is irrelevant if there was prior.

5. If the ball is bouncing around under a maul of players you can’t drag it under a tackle. Instant free.

6. If there was a) no prior before the tackle, b) a legitimate attempt to dispose it by the tackled player and c) the ball isn’t coming out, you ball it up.

The rules aren’t THAT complicated to learn. There are those three key judgement areas for umpires and there will always be a little variation decision to decision but it’s when they seem to forget the rules of the game that I go insane.

I also really want to fans to understand that holding the ball is always paid when there is prior opportunity and sometimes paid when there isn’t prior. So many fans yell out “no prior” but don’t seem to understand that that doesn’t always matter.

The clash between point 4 and point 3 is the sticking point.

There have been tonnes of calls against North (and I’m certain other teams) this year where a player with the ball is tackled let’s go of the ball and somehow it is interpreted as being knocke loose.

Get rid of point 4.

 

[LB2Snake]

Seems like the AFL forced purple to say something slightly positive with only the slightest hint of a bitterly twisted backhander.

Nice.

But it was three of the club's most decorated players and dal santo, plus, the people involved in that fiasco are well departed - it's just that it will take time to undo the damage of the scotts, joyce and luff years.

I hate Dildo, but he is right how badly the exit of those 4 was done. Stupid.

 

[King Corey]

I hate Dildo, but he is right how badly the exit of those 4 was done. Stupid.

We own goaled majorly in 2015-2018 before entering the sustained run of sheer stupidity that hopefully ended in 2022.

2015 rookie listing Farren was the first minor but informative alarm that the football decision makers had entered a shit for brains phase.

 

[Mcarcherey]

The rules themselves are actually quite straightforward.

1. If you’re tackled legally with prior opportunity to dispose it’s a free kick. Umpire has to make a judgement call on prior. But usually this is the easiest one to call.

2. If you get tackled without any prior opportunity you still have to make an attempt to kick or handball it. If you don’t attempt this, it’s a free. Umpire has to make a judgement call on if you’re making a legitimate attempt.

3. You can never dispose of it illegally. You must kick or handball whether you’re being tackled or not. Dropping, throwing, fake “attempting” to handball - you can’t do it. Free kick for illegal disposal.

4. The ball is allowed to incidentally “pop out” of a tackle. Umpire has to make a judgement call as to whether you’ve illegally disposed it or if it’s popped out naturally in the messiness of tackles (at the moment they’re WAY too lenient on this). Also this is irrelevant if there was prior.

5. If the ball is bouncing around under a maul of players you can’t drag it under a tackle. Instant free.

6. If there was a) no prior before the tackle, b) a legitimate attempt to dispose it by the tackled player and c) the ball isn’t coming out, you ball it up.

The rules aren’t THAT complicated to learn. There are those three key judgement areas for umpires and there will always be a little variation decision to decision but it’s when they seem to forget the rules of the game that I go insane.

I also really want to fans to understand that holding the ball is always paid when there is prior opportunity and sometimes paid when there isn’t prior. So many fans yell out “no prior” but don’t seem to understand that that doesn’t always matter.

Here is the proofread version of your text:

---

Almost each point you've made can be used as a reason to excuse terrible umpiring and is the reason there is terrible umpiring. Let's go through each of those points:

1. Prior is never called consistently. In contested play, players are given far too much lenience with the amount of prior they get. All the time, you see players choosing to ram into opposition players after picking the ball up to try to break through players/tackles when they could have handballed, soccered, or tapped the ball out of the contest. Only now, if they try a "don't argue," they're pinned, but if they just try running through, it's not pinned.
   However, in open play, if a player is on the run, receives a handball, and is immediately tackled, HTB is paid every time because it's perceived they have more time when they actually have no time.

2, 3 & 4. Point 2: You have to make an attempt... but (points 3 & 4) at the same time, if the attempt turns into an illegal disposal, it's a free UNLESS it 'popped out' of the tackle. This is far too subjective and prone to error. What's the point of point 2? Either it's HTB because they didn't dispose of it properly, or they disposed of it properly. Each of these points covers the other when a wrong decision is made.
In my humble opinion, prior should be scrapped. Awareness of your surroundings should be expected. I know the counter will be, "But then no one will pick up the ball because they'll get paid HTB against them if they're tackled immediately." Yep, exactly. Players should be aware if an opposition player is near and whether to pick the ball up to take possession, tap, or soccer the ball to advantage to themselves or their teammates. It's another skill of the game that has fallen away. By doing this, play is opened up and players will be spread out as they're expecting either a disposal, soccer, or tap out of contests instead of picking up dropped balls due to having no prior.

 

[Mcarcherey]

I hate Dildo, but he is right how badly the exit of those 4 was done. Stupid.

we'd be in the same situation though.

by delisitng them we exposed the more mature players (25+) to shouldering more of the load and enabled spots to open up to develop the youth. the porblem was the more mature players were far less talented and the developing youth from the 2012-15 period were shite.

the more mature players that should've replaced those delistings were the top draft talent from the 2010-2014, a period full of compromised drafts. when all others teams have at least 1 or 2 a graders from that period we have none.

if we kept them we just would've been competitve for a few more years and had youth coming through that either left due to lack of opportunity or had no AFL exposure, ultimately resulting in a huge drop off around 2018/19 which happened anyway.

 

[Intothewind]

Here is the proofread version of your text:

---

Almost each point you've made can be used as a reason to excuse terrible umpiring and is the reason there is terrible umpiring. Let's go through each of those points:

1. Prior is never called consistently. In contested play, players are given far too much lenience with the amount of prior they get. All the time, you see players choosing to ram into opposition players after picking the ball up to try to break through players/tackles when they could have handballed, soccered, or tapped the ball out of the contest. Only now, if they try a "don't argue," they're pinned, but if they just try running through, it's not pinned.
   However, in open play, if a player is on the run, receives a handball, and is immediately tackled, HTB is paid every time because it's perceived they have more time when they actually have no time.

2, 3 & 4. Point 2: You have to make an attempt... but (points 3 & 4) at the same time, if the attempt turns into an illegal disposal, it's a free UNLESS it 'popped out' of the tackle. This is far too subjective and prone to error. What's the point of point 2? Either it's HTB because they didn't dispose of it properly, or they disposed of it properly. Each of these points covers the other when a wrong decision is made.
In my humble opinion, prior should be scrapped. Awareness of your surroundings should be expected. I know the counter will be, "But then no one will pick up the ball because they'll get paid HTB against them if they're tackled immediately." Yep, exactly. Players should be aware if an opposition player is near and whether to pick the ball up to take possession, tap, or soccer the ball to advantage to themselves or their teammates. It's another skill of the game that has fallen away. By doing this, play is opened up and players will be spread out as they're expecting either a disposal, soccer, or tap out of contests instead of picking up dropped balls due to having no prior.

An unfixable flaw in the concept of prior opportunity is that the amount of time required for a prior opportunity varies according the the individual player's skill level and fatigue. So there is no possibility of it ever being umpired fairly or consistently.

 

[Hojuman]

Well worth a watch.

 

[DocSholl]

We own goaled majorly in 2015-2018 before entering the sustained run of sheer stupidity that hopefully ended in 2022.

2015 rookie listing Farren was the first minor but informative alarm that the football decision makers had entered a shit for brains phase.

Assigning a recruiter to Rebel Sports stores was another odd move

 

[Augustine]

The clash between point 4 and point 3 is the sticking point.

There have been tonnes of calls against North (and I’m certain other teams) this year where a player with the ball is tackled let’s go of the ball and somehow it is interpreted as being knocke loose.

Get rid of point 4.

This used to not be a problem. I understand why the rule is there. For example, you’re running down the wing and you take a bounce but stuff it up and the ball runs along the ground and is picked up by another player. Is this an illegal disposal, a “throw”? Currently no. If you fumble a handball receive is that illegal disposal? No. If you’ve barely taken possession and two players jump on you and the next thing you know you don’t have the ball anymore is that an illegal disposal? Traditionally, no. Play just goes on.

But the problem is that players have worked out you can just drop the ball when getting tackled and disguise it as an accident and the umpires will give the benefit of the doubt.

I think we need to get way more strict on illegal disposal. Otherwise the game can turn into a mess.

 

[Kanga Glory]

Well worth a watch.

That is farking unbelievable how it was explained how especially Collingwood are advantaged by the fixture and how naive the afl are. He had some logic to the solution

 

[Augustine]

Here is the proofread version of your text:

---

Almost each point you've made can be used as a reason to excuse terrible umpiring and is the reason there is terrible umpiring. Let's go through each of those points:

1. Prior is never called consistently. In contested play, players are given far too much lenience with the amount of prior they get. All the time, you see players choosing to ram into opposition players after picking the ball up to try to break through players/tackles when they could have handballed, soccered, or tapped the ball out of the contest. Only now, if they try a "don't argue," they're pinned, but if they just try running through, it's not pinned.
   However, in open play, if a player is on the run, receives a handball, and is immediately tackled, HTB is paid every time because it's perceived they have more time when they actually have no time.

2, 3 & 4. Point 2: You have to make an attempt... but (points 3 & 4) at the same time, if the attempt turns into an illegal disposal, it's a free UNLESS it 'popped out' of the tackle. This is far too subjective and prone to error. What's the point of point 2? Either it's HTB because they didn't dispose of it properly, or they disposed of it properly. Each of these points covers the other when a wrong decision is made.
In my humble opinion, prior should be scrapped. Awareness of your surroundings should be expected. I know the counter will be, "But then no one will pick up the ball because they'll get paid HTB against them if they're tackled immediately." Yep, exactly. Players should be aware if an opposition player is near and whether to pick the ball up to take possession, tap, or soccer the ball to advantage to themselves or their teammates. It's another skill of the game that has fallen away. By doing this, play is opened up and players will be spread out as they're expecting either a disposal, soccer, or tap out of contests instead of picking up dropped balls due to having no prior.

Point 1. I agree. I can picture in my head right now Luke McDonald taking possession and running straight into a tackle for a ball up. It’s not good footy. The good players are so quick and hand balling that the umpires need to shorten what they think prior opportunity is. It’s not just run-down tackles.

On the point 3 vs 4 issue. Yep I agree. I would like to see illegal disposals paid. An attempt to handball where the fist doesn’t make contact - free kick. Dropping the ball - free kick.

The popping out rule is in the rules as they are written. The Laws of the Game read like this:



The key word here “elects”. Tackled without prior, swing your arm like it’s a handball attempt and drop the ball and the umpire says play on.

Either they need to amend the rules or the umpires need to get smarter about players dropping the ball vs actually trying to dispose of it.

This is why as a junior you’re taught to pin the arms. Make it impossible for them to do anything.

 

[Augustine]

Well worth a watch.

I’m a quarter of the way through. I don’t think I can finish. Too infuriating.

 

[Mcarcherey]

Point 1. I agree. I can picture in my head right now Luke McDonald taking possession and running straight into a tackle for a ball up. It’s not good footy. The good players are so quick and hand balling that the umpires need to shorten what they think prior opportunity is. It’s not just run-down tackles.

AMEN....tarryn did this a lot when low on confidence too i recall.

the same could be said when the ball pops out of a contest and players jump, take possession and just treat it like some sort of rugby throw in....tap it to space for your teamsmates ffs - THAT is skill, talent and smarts. punish those those elect create another throw up.

maybe it was the time period or things are a little different in WA, but in juniors being caught in a tackle with the ball felt like one of the worst things that could happen to you, with or without prior.

either you back yourself to break the tackle/evade the player or tap/soccer to space/advantage. THAT is skill and footy smarts. grabbing the ball and curling up in a ball and flopping around is not what anyone wants and should be punished to get it out of the game.

 

[Cool Kangas]

I hate Dildo, but he is right how badly the exit of those 4 was done. Stupid.

Brad f———ing Scott.

 

[Augustine]

AMEN....tarryn did this a lot when low on confidence too i recall.

the same could be said when the ball pops out of a contest and players jump, take possession and just treat it like some sort of rugby throw in....tap it to space for your teamsmates ffs - THAT is skill, talent and smarts. punish those those elect create another throw up.

maybe it was the time period or things are a little different in WA, but in juniors being caught in a tackle with the ball felt like one of the worst things that could happen to you, with or without prior.

either you back yourself to break the tackle/evade the player or tap/soccer to space/advantage. THAT is skill and footy smarts. grabbing the ball and curling up in a ball and flopping around is not what anyone wants and should be punished to get it out of the game.

The whole POINT of the holding the ball rule is to punish players who do that and reward tacklers who manage to make a player do that.

 

[LB2Snake]

we'd be in the same situation though.

by delisitng them we exposed the more mature players (25+) to shouldering more of the load and enabled spots to open up to develop the youth. the porblem was the more mature players were far less talented and the developing youth from the 2012-15 period were shite.

the more mature players that should've replaced those delistings were the top draft talent from the 2010-2014, a period full of compromised drafts. when all others teams have at least 1 or 2 a graders from that period we have none.

if we kept them we just would've been competitve for a few more years and had youth coming through that either left due to lack of opportunity or had no AFL exposure, ultimately resulting in a huge drop off around 2018/19 which happened anyway.

I think we should have kept boomer for sure, and one of spud or Petrie. Too many at once IMO

 

[DocSholl]

I think we should have kept boomer for sure, and one of spud or Petrie. Too many at once IMO

Boomer had 500 touches and kicked 36 goals in his last season. Forcibly retiring him was absurd.

 

[LETSGOKANGAS]

Well worth a watch.

Im triggered.

Harps on the AFL and their ‘pioneering’ consideration yet North and Fridays nights doesn't get a mention.

So the AFL flog the public off with a fake ‘pioneering’ metric which isn't applied in fixturing at all.