List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion - 2022 Off Season Edition

[Keys]

Contract status of all players now fully updated

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

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[Agent93]

Give me two exciting young players who we won't have to worry about being flight risks after seeing how JHF panned out (If the rumours are in fact true).

... and Rankine, Bruhn, and Jackson; that's this season. Last season you had Cerra and Clark, and previous to that Caldwell as first round picks who demanded trades from their drafting club before earning any semblance of free-agency. Of those 8, five were top-5 selections.

The AFL's player movement system has made it pretty risky to draft anyone with a hint on go-home factor these days as it sets a club's rebuilding process back another year each time they lose a player.

Freo with Cerra may be the exception because they got the Brodie bargain, but one year later they had 5 other players doing the right thing and requesting to get the hell out of there.

 

[Coasters7]

Trade out for 3 picks, why not 4?

It isn't the number of picks - it's the quality.

It'll come down to whomever was 3rd highest rated versus Ginbey/Hewett.

Something we can't celebrate for a number or years

I remember Carlton heralding their genius move to get Stocker... That bold moved "paid off" as well at the time.

Also have to remember that anyone we are likely to pick at 2 was probably looking for the first opportunity back to Melbourne. We got two quality local lads that will be here for the long haul and could still both be better than Sheezel or Wardlaw. With who we ended up with I think the trade was justified

 

[juddy_Like]

Gee, we like our young bulls big and strong.

Some of you lot owe ROB an apology.

 

[Coasters7]

So we now have a contingent of young bulls with big bodies that we can play together so they learn to gel as a unit

Culley:
Ginbey:
Hewitt:

On paper, this look highly promising

The next question is whether Simpson is prepared to ditch seniority and his credits in the bank selection policy so we can develop these kids where they need to be developed: On the ball

That would mean for example, a guy like potentially Shuey, should be either playing on the half forward flank, or, starting on the bench to give these kids precedence to develop

This should not mean that Simpson plays these kids on the half forward flank whilst giving Shuey precedence until he retires

O'Brien has done his bit here. Now its over to the coach

Our ball movement would improve dramatically with Yeo and Shuey moved to flanks anyway I feel. We already saw evidence of that with Yeo at half back last season

Start the kids in the middle with Kelly and Shuey/Yeo to hff and hbf respectively to prolong their careers, give the kids time to develop in their best positions, and probably improve the way the team plays as a bonus

 

[Agent93]

Or Hobart every 2nd week in a couple of years

Every 4th week I reckon. Launceston will be keen to host games when the Saints get moved to Tasmania.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

So we now have a contingent of young bulls with big bodies that we can play together so they learn to gel as a unit

Culley:
Ginbey:
Hewitt:

On paper, this look highly promising

The next question is whether Simpson is prepared to ditch seniority and his credits in the bank selection policy so we can develop these kids where they need to be developed: On the ball

That would mean for example, a guy like potentially Shuey, should be either playing on the half forward flank, or, starting on the bench to give these kids precedence to develop

This should not mean that Simpson plays these kids on the half forward flank whilst giving Shuey precedence until he retires

O'Brien has done his bit here. Now its over to the coach

Very very few first year draftees walk into a side and can hold down a FT midfield position from day 1.

Even Ben Cousins spent his first season in a pocket.

And you want those 3 to kick out the senior guys?

Sure - if talent permits - give them some minutes in the midfield - but the idea that our starting midfield or regular midfield in 2023 comprises those 3 is laughable.

 

[Spank2304]

Our ball movement would improve dramatically with Yeo and Shuey moved to flanks anyway I feel. We already saw evidence of that with Yeo at half back last season

Start the kids in the middle with Kelly and Shuey/Yeo to hff and hbf respectively to prolong their careers, give the kids time to develop in their best positions, and probably improve the way the team plays as a bonus

 

[DanWCE]

With Culley, Ginbey and Hewitt in the midfield, Hough and Chesser on the wings, our average midfield height is 189cm

TK brings it down a bit, and Sheed will continue to be a presence in there for a while, but damn we've prepared for the future with some good sized blokes in there.

 

[Spank2304]

Very very few first year draftees walk into a side and can hold down a FT midfield position from day 1.

Even Ben Cousins spent his first season in a pocket.

And you want those 3 to kick out the senior guys?

Sure - if talent permits - give them some minutes in the midfield - but the idea that our starting midfield or regular midfield in 2023 comprises those 3 is laughable.

Shuey and yeo should go to the flanks but we would still have Kelly and Sheed going through there. Yeo and Shuey to chop out as required

 

[Happy Mastenator]

The kids getting actual midfield minutes is important. The idea of Culley. Hewett, Ginbey lining up against Dunkley, Neale and McLugggage does not fill me with joy though.

The majority of the minutes will/should still be taken up by Yeo. Shuey, Sheed, Kelly. Importantly probably two of them plus a kid.

Importantly we now have options. We don't have to flog the older guys with all their minutes in the middle, we can play them forward/back for periods and pro-long their legs.

 

[Wooshaaaa]

... and Rankine, Bruhn, and Jackson; that's this season. Last season you had Cerra and Clark, and previous to that Caldwell as first round picks who demanded trades from their drafting club before earning any semblance of free-agency. Of those 8, five were top-5 selections.

The AFL's player movement system has made it pretty risky to draft anyone with a hint on go-home factor these days as it sets a club's rebuilding process back another year each time they lose a player.

Freo with Cerra may be the exception because they got the Brodie bargain, but one year later they had 5 other players doing the right thing and requesting to get the hell out of there.

Player agents need to stop promising that they can guarantee the players stay in state....including WA agents. Only got to look at Jones and Busslinger disappointment last night to see they were told otherwise.

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[The wily weagle]

Very very few first year draftees walk into a side and can hold down a FT midfield position from day 1.

Even Ben Cousins spent his first season in a pocket.

And you want those 3 to kick out the senior guys?

Sure - if talent permits - give them some minutes in the midfield - but the idea that our starting midfield or regular midfield in 2023 comprises those 3 is laughable.

Culley is a little older and already has some midfield experience, so yes
Hewitt is a full time midfielder and is ready to go physically, so yes
Ginbey perhaps can start as a half forward and rotate into the middle frequently, seeing as he is not yet a full time midfielder
Pair the aforementioned first two players with say, Yeo, just to give them a bit of physical protection early on (not that i believe either will really need it) and we are good to go

So to answer your question, i would be quite comfortable with us playing 2 out of those 3 kids on the ball straight away with the 3rd to do occasional stints in the short term. Nic will also offer a physical presence/protection for these kids so i would personally be quite comfortable putting them on the ball straight away

Its not a like for like scenario, but i remember the game where Clayton Oliver debuted and the coach backed him in and put him straight in at the very next center bounce and he won the clearance. I really, really hope Simpson does the same and doesn't spend the bulk of the year playing Shuey on the ball whilst these kids gather dust in either the forward pocket, or worse, the WAFL

 

[DanWCE]

The kids getting actual midfield minutes is important. The idea of Culley. Hewett, Ginbey lining up against Dunkley, Neale and McLugggage does not fill me with joy though.

The majority of the minutes will/should still be taken up by Yeo. Shuey, Sheed, Kelly. Importantly probably two of them plus a kid.

Importantly we now have options. We don't have to flog the older guys with all their minutes in the middle, we can play them forward/back for periods and pro-long their legs.

We need to expose the kids to the midfield but protect them from playing permanent minutes there. Ginbey and Yeo could rotate off a back flank.

Culley and Shuey could rotate off a forward flank, as both bring a point of difference to the forward line and have defensive midfield traits.

Hough and Chesser can share wing and back flank minutes.

Hewitt and TK could also split duties. It's about giving them a look and a chance to succeed in their future positions without throwing them to the wolves. Luckily some of these boys already have mature bodies but even as we saw with Hough, skill and intent will get you a long way until you put some size on.

 

[Agent93]

Player agents need to stop promising that they can guarantee the players stay in state....including WA agents. Only got to look at Jones and Busslinger disappointment last night to see they were told otherwise.

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Thing is, the agents basically can guarantee that after a season or two. Demand a trade these days and you'll get where you want to go, right down to a specific club.

 

[Cuzz09]

Getting drafted to the Saints would be like that guy that goes to the strippers and is like "maybe I can save them?"



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[FKASC]

Player agents need to stop promising that they can guarantee the players stay in state....including WA agents. Only got to look at Jones and Busslinger disappointment last night to see they were told otherwise.

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Just means the agent gets more work when they convince the player to ask for a trade though. Agents using the kids as pawns to increase their revenue

 

[Spank2304]

The kids getting actual midfield minutes is important. The idea of Culley. Hewett, Ginbey lining up against Dunkley, Neale and McLugggage does not fill me with joy though.

The majority of the minutes will/should still be taken up by Yeo. Shuey, Sheed, Kelly. Importantly probably two of them plus a kid.

Importantly we now have options. We don't have to flog the older guys with all their minutes in the middle, we can play them forward/back for periods and pro-long their legs.

I get what you're saying but i feel that playing either Shuey or Yeo as a full time mid wont last long next season before injury strikes anyway. They're past 30 and both injury prone. Whilst they are both great players and worthy of a spot on the list I feel (and I'm no expert) that limiting their midfield minutes would give them the greatest chance of getting through the majority of the season.

It would still leave us with a start midfield that looked something like;
NN Kelly Sheed
Hough Culley Gaff

with Yeo and Shuey on HBF and HFF respectively with some combo of Chesser, Hewitt, Ginbey on the bench.

 

[FKASC]

I get what you're saying but i feel that playing either Shuey or Yeo as a full time mid wont last long next season before injury strikes anyway. They're past 30 and both injury prone. Whilst they are both great players and worthy of a spot on the list I feel (and I'm no expert) that limiting their midfield minutes would give them the greatest chance of getting through the majority of the season.

It would still leave us with a start midfield that looked something like;
NN Kelly Sheed
Hough Culley Gaff

with Yeo and Shuey on HBF and HFF respectively with some combo of Chesser, Hewitt, Ginbey on the bench.

Yeo is a far superior HB than midfielder anyway.

Any campaigner wanting to quote AA can fight me

 

[Spank2304]

Yeo is a far superior HB than midfielder anyway.

Any campaigner wanting to quote AA can fight me

Agreed. Hunt and Yeo off the HBF could be quite dynamic

 

[Happy Mastenator]

I get what you're saying but i feel that playing either Shuey or Yeo as a full time mid wont last long next season before injury strikes anyway. They're past 30 and both injury prone. Whilst they are both great players and worthy of a spot on the list I feel (and I'm no expert) that limiting their midfield minutes would give them the greatest chance of getting through the majority of the season.

It would still leave us with a start midfield that looked something like;
NN Kelly Sheed
Hough Culley Gaff

with Yeo and Shuey on HBF and HFF respectively with some combo of Chesser, Hewitt, Ginbey on the bench.

That's not what i'm saying though.

I'd see a split like 50% mid time, 30% half forward/back, 20% bench as an optimal split, moving up and down depending on need/circumstance.

Protects them, gives our kids exposure without overwhelming them in the middle, and if swung back in the mid for final 5 minutes of a close game they might have fresher legs than the opposition.

 

[Wooshaaaa]

Thing is, the agents basically can guarantee that after a season or two. Demand a trade these days and you'll get where you want to go, right down to a specific club.

Yep, but now it's happening with new draftees flagging their wishes prior to the draft. They only do this under the advice of their agent.

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[Hook461123]

Happy with day one of the draft.
Was stoked we went Hewett over Allan. Think he was a much better complimentary selection with Ginbey.

Good that both can play alternative positions to start their career. Ginbey on the back flank and Hewett on the forward flank, with stints in the middle for both. Hopefully Ginbey can continue to progress and work on his midfield craft.

We need a goal kicking small forward (Clarke?) and an accumulator around the ground (Hotton/Burgiel?).
Though wouldn't be unhappy with a tall either in Barnett/Hayes.

If Rob wants his back flankers he has Cowan and Ryan too.
Lots of choices depending on what type of players we want.

 

[Agent93]

Yep, but now it's happening with new draftees flagging their wishes prior to the draft. They only do this under the advice of their agent.

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Agreed. The AFL have, how shall I put this... ****ed it. They're on the verge of ****ing it so bad that highly rated players will almost dictate to which clubs they can be drafted.

At that point I'd imagine the AFL finally plan to do something in the next 5 years because they can't use the draft to prop up the basket case Vic clubs and pet projects in NSW and Qld.

 

[Spank2304]

That's not what i'm saying though.

I'd see a split like 50% mid time, 30% half forward/back, 20% bench as an optimal split, moving up and down depending on need/circumstance.

Protects them, gives our kids exposure without overwhelming them in the middle, and if swung back in the mid for final 5 minutes of a close game they might have fresher legs than the opposition.

Yeah that makes more sense. I'd change the split to be less midfield time and Yeo I would pretty much play full time on HBF. Like the idea of keeping their legs fresh for the scenario you have laid out above.

 

[flyinghi64]

Sounds like he'd suit the Dockers

NO.
He is a Def Eagle fan.