Certified Legendary Thread Corona, Jamaica ooh I wanna take ya (COVID-19 Information & Discussion Here) Part 2 "The Second Wave"

[1970crow]

You have no idea what knowledge we do or dont have. But you go along with the other armchair expert like he’s in the industry. He’s repeatedly says he’s not in the industry but he “reads”. Well whoopdie doo! Our argument has always been it doesn’t matter how much money you throw at this, there is one thing that it cannot buy, and that is the time necessary to ensure safe efficacy. He disregards that every single time and it’s irresponsible. There is NO WAY of knowing things without the benefit of time.

You have zero knowledge about the specifics of this vaccine or any of the others. What's clear is that you've based everything on general understanding. And looks like you've been proven wrong by an amateur researcher with no specific drug design/manufacture experience. And yet he's made you look like a fool. You are wrong, all your experience isn't worth a pinch of shit when it comes to a covid vaccine. But thanks for playing.

 

[mistylake]

So many questions which need to be answered:

• How long does it remain effective?
• How often will we need "booster" shots?
• What are the long-term side effects of the vaccine?
• How effective is it for people with comorbidities, and other factors?

The answers to the 3rd question won't be known for years.

The Aust Govt has ordered 10m shots of this vaccine (they've also placed orders for several other potential vaccines). The Pfizer vaccine requires 2 shots, so they'll have enough for 5m people. Australia's population is currently 25m. You do the math...

You wouldn’t bother with kids would you for a starter. Then there’s a bunch that won’t bother with it.
I’ve never had a flu shot and don’t think I’ve ever had flu that I can remember.

 

[mistylake]

We will agree to disagree as you know everything, apparently.

What I will say is... that yes, indeed unprecedented times, unprecedented money being spent, but doesn't change the fact that safety WILL be compromised if a vaccine is released too quickly.

Considering the Pfizer vaccine has already been tested on 45,000 people, some amount of safety has already been put aside for progress. Probably means at least 1/4 million people minimum have been experimented on already with many vaccine trials well underway now.

 

[mistylake]

Yes, agreed.

Yes, agreed.

... and No.

They haven't had the time to do the longitudinal trials - to determine the long term effects of the vaccine. They don't even know how long it remains effective. We've been told that it's 90% effective - presumably for people who were exposed shortly after being given the vaccine. We don't know how effective it is for people who were exposed to the disease 6, 12, or 18 months after they were given the vaccine.

This is still a huge problem - and no amount of money can fix it. Money can't buy you time. No amount of money can alter the fact that the effects of the drug, on the human body, beyond the initial 6 months (i.e. the length of the studies to date) are completely unknown and unknowable at this point in time. Those effects can't and won't be known until that amount of time has passed.

I will be getting vaccinated, but not until I am satisfied that the drugs are safe - and it's going to take more than spin and PR from the pharmaceutical companies to convince me that their drugs are safe. The TGA won't be falling for their PR & spin either, they will be taking a good hard look at the data before granting any approvals.

Are you going to wait your magical 5/10 years? Or get bored with waiting while everyone else is packing into Adelaide oval again.

 

[1970crow]

Are you going to wait your magical 5/10 years? Or get bored with waiting while everyone else is packing into Adelaide oval again.

truth be known, the ‘experts’ will be first in line. Jen is petrified of catching the virus and Vader will need it to get on his next cruise. They’re full of shit. Just arguing for the sake of it because they went early against the info that was being released and readily available. Just look at Vader’s list of rudimentary questions. Like these aren’t being answered. And Jen telling us how no good it is coz -94 degrees, like that’s an insurmountable problem. As if they’d spend all those $ on a product they couldn’t get to market.

 

[1970crow]

the Pfizer vaccine showing 90% efficacy.... but what they don’t tell you is it has to be stored at -94 degrees. That’s going to make distribution virtually impossible. Also that we don’t know who it works for... is it only those who get mild cases and not those with comorbidities? It’s no bloody good if it only works for those who won’t die from it anyway. Still way too much data needs to be gathered before they can roll ANYTHING out for mass distribution.

Here’s our expert in the field seemingly unaware that there’s already a commonly used transshipment device that keeps the vaccine viable for 14 days. “Distribution virtually impossible” she says. Want to know how long Sydney to Alice springs by truck freight is if the item meets all the connections? Virtually impossible, **** me, talk about talking from one’s arse. Even if it gets only the second connection, it’s still at the hospital or clinic with a few days grace.

 

[jenny61_99]

Here’s our expert in the field seemingly unaware that there’s already a commonly used transshipment device that keeps the vaccine viable for 14 days. “Distribution virtually impossible” she says. Want to know how long Sydney to Alice springs by truck freight is if the item meets all the connections? Virtually impossible, fu** me, talk about talking from one’s arse. Even if it gets only the second connection, it’s still at the hospital or clinic with a few days grace.

Worldwide distribution will be problematic with a requirement for storage at -94 degrees. Tell me how you are getting it into third world countries? Unlike you, I’m not just thinking of myself. never claimed to be an expert but I have a very good understanding about the development of drugs. i don’t know why you are being such an arseh*le.

 

[jenny61_99]

truth be known, the ‘experts’ will be first in line. Jen is petrified of catching the virus and Vader will need it to get on his next cruise. They’re full of sh*t. Just arguing for the sake of it because they went early against the info that was being released and readily available. Just look at Vader’s list of rudimentary questions. Like these aren’t being answered. And Jen telling us how no good it is coz -94 degrees, like that’s an insurmountable problem. As if they’d spend all those $ on a product they couldn’t get to market.

You are such a jerk. I will NOT be in line for any vaccine at this early stage. By all means, you go ahead and take it.

 

[mistylake]

truth be known, the ‘experts’ will be first in line. Jen is petrified of catching the virus and Vader will need it to get on his next cruise. They’re full of sh*t. Just arguing for the sake of it because they went early against the info that was being released and readily available. Just look at Vader’s list of rudimentary questions. Like these aren’t being answered. And Jen telling us how no good it is coz -94 degrees, like that’s an insurmountable problem. As if they’d spend all those $ on a product they couldn’t get to market.

Exactly. I can’t say I understand why it needs the super cold conditions. It sounds like this is for long term storage.
I would have thought frozen is frozen as they will be sending this out for immediate usage. You can’t inject something that’s frozen, I’d expect it’s kept at minus 70° then sent out daily in dry ice packed cool boxes and bought up to liquid state over night for use the next day. There’ll be lineups down the street so I doubt it’s going to be an issue. Except in the backwoods and those places are safe from the virus by location.

 

[mistylake]

Worldwide distribution will be problematic with a requirement for storage at -94 degrees. Tell me how you are getting it into third world countries? Unlike you, I’m not just thinking of myself. never claimed to be an expert but I have a very good understanding about the development of drugs. i don’t know why you are being such an a-hole.

Hard to get to places are less in need of getting it because they are hard to get to for everything.
major hard hit cities with good supply chains will be targeted first as they are the places most affected and easiest served I’d suggest.
Your glass is so half empty it’s an empty vessel.

 

[mistylake]

Worldwide distribution will be problematic with a requirement for storage at -94 degrees. Tell me how you are getting it into third world countries? Unlike you, I’m not just thinking of myself. never claimed to be an expert but I have a very good understanding about the development of drugs. i don’t know why you are being such an a-hole.

There’s about 160 vaccines in development. Maybe they will use ones with less problematic deliveries in out of the way and logistically challenged locations. It’s not that hard to work it out really.

 

[1970crow]

Hard to get to places are less in need of getting it because they are hard to get to for everything.
major hard hit cities with good supply chains will be targeted first as they are the places most affected and easiest served I’d suggest.
Your glass is so half empty it’s an empty vessel.

There are no hard to get places. Little old Alice Springs services an enormous and largely unpopulated region. It's all still 1 day away by standard road freight. They get meat, fruit, veg and ice cream for their community shops, surely they'll not have much trouble getting a virus vaccine. These city folk that are expert in everything remote are so funny. NFI.

 

[jenny61_99]

There are no hard to get places. Little old Alice Springs services an enormous and largely unpopulated region. It's all still 1 day away by standard road freight. They get meat, fruit, veg and ice cream for their community shops, surely they'll not have much trouble getting a virus vaccine. These city folk that are expert in everything remote are so funny. NFI.

Again, thinking only of yourself. What a surprise.

 

[FR0GGY]

Again, thinking only of yourself. What a surprise.

What he’s said there has got nothing to do with him though?

 

[jenny61_99]

What he’s said there has got nothing to do with him though?

Where does he live?

 

[FR0GGY]

Where does he live?

Mount gambier.
Even if he still lived in Alice he was explaining what happens.
Nothing he wrote was him thinking about himself?

 

[jenny61_99]

Mount gambier.
Even if he still lived in Alice he was explaining what happens.
Nothing he wrote was him thinking about himself?

He was thinking purely locally... (and I did think he still lived in Alice Springs, hence the reference). I'm talking logistics of getting a vaccine that is unstable above a certain temperature (at this stage) around an entire world. The cold chain from manufacture to administering is important - because if those conditions are not met AT ANY TIME (either too hot OR too cold), the vaccine is no longer viable and can't be administered. Existing supply chains for traditional vaccines (that don't require this super cold storage), are not up to the task required for this vaccine, so much work will have to be done to upgrade this in every country. This is NOT an easy thing and will require TIME.

For some reason people are also not taking into consideration the safety efficacy for MANY other factors... not just the administration, but the contraindication with other medications. People with comorbidities - you know, the ones who are most at risk of dying from this virus - will likely be on multiple medications. How does this vaccine interact with them solely or in combination? Does it affect an unborn foetus? None of these things will be tested in these very early phase 3 trials. This information won't be known for some time.

 

[Vader]

Apparently they have developed an esky which can keep it at the required temperature for 48 hours, though it does require refilling with dry ice at least once during that period. This will go some of the way towards answering the transport questions, though it's going to take an awful lot of eskies to transport the required number of vaccine units.

Your point about contraindications is valid... and there are also questions about long term effects (and effectiveness) which can't be answered until people have had the vaccine in their system for the required period of time.

 

[jenny61_99]

Apparently they have developed an esky which can keep it at the required temperature for 48 hours, though it does require refilling with dry ice at least once during that period. This will go some of the way towards answering the transport questions, though it's going to take an awful lot of eskies to transport the required number of vaccine units.

Your point about contraindications is valid... and there are also questions about long term effects (and effectiveness) which can't be answered until people have had the vaccine in their system for the required period of time.

The esky has to be maintained AT ALL times. Flights get delayed. Traffic accidents happen. Natural disasters (cyclones, flooding, earthquakes etc)... happen. Power outages. It's not just a matter of "bunging it in an eski and she'll be right mate". Everyone is acknowledging that this aspect (storage and transportation) of the RNA based vaccines creates logistical nightmares. Don't get me wrong, It can and will be overcome... but it will take TIME.

 

[1970crow]

Apparently they have developed an esky which can keep it at the required temperature for 48 hours, though it does require refilling with dry ice at least once during that period. This will go some of the way towards answering the transport questions, though it's going to take an awful lot of eskies to transport the required number of vaccine units.

Your point about contraindications is valid... and there are also questions about long term effects (and effectiveness) which can't be answered until people have had the vaccine in their system for the required period of time.

14 days, not 48 hours.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Apparently they have developed an esky which can keep it at the required temperature for 48 hours, though it does require refilling with dry ice at least once during that period. This will go some of the way towards answering the transport questions, though it's going to take an awful lot of eskies to transport the required number of vaccine units.

Your point about contraindications is valid... and there are also questions about long term effects (and effectiveness) which can't be answered until people have had the vaccine in their system for the required period of time.

I watched an episode of Running in the Wild with Bear Grylls with Julia Roberts taking 2 days to deliver vaccines to remote African community... so I'm sure solutions can be found to keep vaccines cold for delivery.

 

[Vader]

I watched an episode of Running in the Wild with Bear Grylls with Julia Roberts taking 2 days to deliver vaccines to remote African community... so I'm sure solutions can be found to keep vaccines cold for delivery.

They didn't need to keep their vaccines at -70 (or lower).

I'm also willing to bet that the vaccines they "delivered" in the show were thrown away, even if the show portrayed them as being injected into the community members (sneaky TV producers).

 

[Vader]

14 days, not 48 hours.

Apologies. 14 days is correct - and they need to be refilled with dry ice twice during this period.

 

[1970crow]

Apologies. 14 days is correct - and they need to be refilled with dry ice twice during this period.

From what I've read I'm not sure that's clear. 14 days and "can be refilled twice". That's certainly not 'must' or "need" and it's not even certain that it's about the dry ice. It might be that the esky can be re-used twice. But that's only an ABC article and there might be more out there that clears that unclear language up.

 

[Pugsley]

Jenny Not chomping at the Bit I am working on Data I have seen and allowed to mention,
The groundwork required to plan for these vaccines to come to Australia is not done on a Whim, and take planning they do not do this without serious groundwork,
The Groundwork require to start producing a vaccine in Australia take considerable more work,

As for the Age groups re Pfitzer The vaccine is being tested in adults 18-54 years of age, 55-85 years of age, and adolescents 12-18 years of age. The Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine is the first COVID-19 vaccine to be tested in adolescents. and the ongoing paperwork is available, I have mentioned this before,

As for mass production, I am sorry to say it has started, Just waiting for Approval before being rolled out, Approval which at this time is expected without problems,
We will have Vaccines available for some early next year, well before winter hits,
You may not agree but it is Happening as I speak,

I agree with Jenny's views on this I think it will be available earliest in late 2021.