COVID-19 / Coronavirus

[Argy]

You call me “dumb“, then finish with “my friend”. I don’t get how you think you’ll get my respect?

Sorry, I should have called you ignorant. That's not an insult, it's an observation.

In regards to your post.

I supported the lockdowns initially, I supported them because I thought it was necessary to make a sacrifice to flatten the curve, get our health system prepared and protect the vulnerable. I supported the lockdowns with the belief that the government could in fact facilitate this adequately, both in terms of the management of stay at home measures as well as the protocols around return travellers and quarantine. I was critical in terms of transparency, I wanted some clarity on the journey out, what does this look like and how do we get there? That was slow coming, but eventually, it was broadcasted albeit in a poorly and flimsy manner.

What has transpired since has been inconceivably bad, the ineptness and lack of professionalism from the state government is the reason we are now in this position and someone needs to responsibility.

Are you saying lock downs do not reduce infection rates, do not protect the vulnerable, do not protect our health systems?

Do you agree that having "leaky" lock downs increases infection rates?

If you know lock downs decrease transmission, why do want you them lifted?

Why would you not want to plug the leaks instead?

Daniel Andrews continually states “I’m the leader”, “I’m the captain”, well as the leader you need to take responsibility and admit you can’t manage this and someone needs to be handed the reigns who can. Who that is, I don’t know but the evidence is quite clear that the trio of DA/Sutton and Mikakos are in over their heads.

Would you want the new leadership to impose more leaky lock downs or make them more effective?

 

[Messenger]

Oversight failure is an understatement... Current reports ( made up ? ) are that the govt has known about the hotel problems since May... Indefensible on the part of Dictator Dan if true.

The oversight is actually catastrophic mate, this is human lives we are dealing, both in terms of livelihood and health. The virus, albeit, minor for the overwhelming majority carries much more economic and mental burdens for people in our city. People have every right to be angry, they deserve to be furious and they have every right to scream about it.

The mixed messages and press conferences where key people contradict each other is embarrassing, this has been a horrid period.

You two are making my point for me. I agree there is a significant failure in process in Victoria but I’m not strident enough.

 

[Pessimistic]

Boris ain’t in a good place either, but the three lecterns is a good look. Not sure our polices and officers in briefings should be sharing a single lectern

 

[Hawk Dork]

RP was catastrophic and I said so when the stupidity of the NSW gov and border patrol let cruisers into the city without screening. That was an exceptionally stupid thing to do, the only slight let off you can give them is that it was at the start of the pandemic. I still thought Brad Hazzard should have been sacked, human life was lost and he kept his 400k job.

Did Victoria learn from the RP? clearly not. WA did.

How can you stop 2 idiots doing what they did ?

 

[Messenger]

WA also has the luxury of shutting down their border and making no impact on the lives of 95% of people in the Eastern states.

 

[Kanga Commando]

Just to be clear. All our leaders are Dictators because they are all locking down the states and federally we have locked down the country.

Some states are not locking down. They are opening up.. ( BTW - someone elses words, not mine. But seems apt )

 

[Kanga Commando]

Did not mean to be trite, I am just curious to know how many.

Unlike the media i'm not in the habit of making stuff up. Happy to quote them if they do so. Lets see what the inquiry says about numbers... 1 is too many considering the task of those responsible for hotel lockdowns ( ie Vic govt )

 

[Gralin]

Unlike the media i'm not in the habit of making stuff up. Happy to quote them if they do so. Lets see what the inquiry says about numbers... 1 is too many considering the task of those responsible for hotel lockdowns ( ie Vic govt )

What about the cases in hospitals?
Is that the Governments fault when front line medical workers catch it?

 

[Hawk Dork]

Some states are not locking down. They are opening up.. ( BTW - someone elses words, not mine. But seems apt )

They got lucky

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

Unlike the media i'm not in the habit of making stuff up. Happy to quote them if they do so. Lets see what the inquiry says about numbers... 1 is too many considering the task of those responsible for hotel lockdowns ( ie Vic govt )

I'm not seeking to offend. Has anyone got any source to say a guard has been infected by a passenger.

There is a source showing an asymptomatic guard infected his colleagues.

 

[Kanga Commando]

I'm not seeking to offend. Has anyone got any source to say a guard has been infected by a passenger.

There is a source showing an asymptomatic guard infected his colleagues.

Thanks for not seeking to offend.... None taken... Not many people on BF have your level of consideration...

The only "Concrete sources" are the media... https://www.theage.com.au/national/...t-of-the-bag-in-victoria-20200703-p558og.html

As i said though - for me, the jury is out until the inquiry finishes... But I'm happy to line them to get ready for the beatings...

 

[Kanga Commando]

They got lucky

I would buy that if it were one or two states....

 

[MightyHawks]

If you watched Dans presser today - he was saying we can't eradicate the virus here

Will be interesting times if Victoria is the only place in AU/NZ that has it

 

[Kanga Commando]

What about the cases in hospitals?
Is that the Governments fault when front line medical workers catch it?

Re Tassie Hospitals - Yep.

But there isnt any ( apparent ) systemic outbreak from hospitals. There is from the hotels.

 

[Gralin]

I'm not seeking to offend. Has anyone got any source to say a guard has been infected by a passenger.

There is a source showing an asymptomatic guard infected his colleagues.

We've not got the inquiry results but it seems fairly likely at this stage that the source of infection is a break down of protocols, ie Security guard or guards not social distancing from quarantined travelers.

They can map the genome and trace the source of outbreaks, if they can trace this back to an overseas source that was in hotel quarantine they will know where it came from.

Proving how it got out into the community might be harder unless they've got CCTV or answer from those involved

 

[Hawk Dork]

If you watched Dans presser today - he was saying we can't eradicate the virus here

Will be interesting times if Victoria is the only place in AU/NZ that has it

Wondering if he is lowering expectations for the inevitable spike in 2 weeks from the contacts lists of the last few days cases.

You would think with closed borders you should be able to get rid of it but as soon as you open up its back
and you cant keep borders closed forever

 

[Gralin]

Re Tassie Hospitals - Yep.

But there isnt any ( apparent ) systemic outbreak from hospitals. There is from the hotels.

Why is it the Governments fault in Tassie?

My question wasn't about large outbreaks but about who is at fault for people catching it.

You wrote

Unlike the media i'm not in the habit of making stuff up. Happy to quote them if they do so. Lets see what the inquiry says about numbers... 1 is too many considering the task of those responsible for hotel lockdowns ( ie Vic govt )

I'm trying to understand what you mean by this, because it reads like anyone getting sick is the fault of the Government

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

We've not got the inquiry results but it seems fairly likely at this stage that the source of infection is a break down of protocols, ie Security guard or guards not social distancing from quarantined travelers.

They can map the genome and trace the source of outbreaks, if they can trace this back to an overseas source that was in hotel quarantine they will know where it came from.

Proving how it got out into the community might be harder unless they've got CCTV or answer from those involved

So we've made some serious allegations and some major changes whilst awaiting results from an incident that happened three or four weeks ago?

 

[Gralin]

So we've made some serious allegations and some major changes whilst awaiting results from an incident that happened three or four weeks ago?

The allegations have come from the media so far. The Government is of course saying they won't comment on an ongoing investigation.

Of course we have made major changes, what we were doing wasn't working. We've got an outbreak that needs to be dealt with and issues with the quarantine process.

Not sure what you are getting at?

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

How was it not working? How was quarantine breached? Simple question.

An infected guard caught the virus away from the hotel. Why is his infection point not the focus?

 

[Kanga Commando]

Why is it the Governments fault in Tassie?

My question wasn't about large outbreaks but about who is at fault for people catching it.

You wrote


I'm trying to understand what you mean by this, because it reads like anyone getting sick is the fault of the Government

My view is - The state government health departments own this problem, lock stock and barrel. They are the experts. They should give the advice, and the state government then ensures it is implemented and followed. I dont believe under those circumstances, with all we know of death rates around the world, that it is reasonable to outsource the control to private security guards who get 5 minutes training and minimal PPE.

However, my opinion is only formed because of media reporting.... I dont trust the government since the Mikakos "perfect" lie about the cedar meats situation.

Even Andrews himself said "the buck stops with him".... So if he is the one running the show in this state, he owns it.

PS - same situation in Tassie considering what happened in the hospital....

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

Thanks for not seeking to offend.... None taken... Not many people on BF have your level of consideration...

The only "Concrete sources" are the media... https://www.theage.com.au/national/...t-of-the-bag-in-victoria-20200703-p558og.html

As i said though - for me, the jury is out until the inquiry finishes... But I'm happy to line them to get ready for the beatings...

It simply does not add up. We must know the passenger. The guard is known. Compare the pair. Case closed. If we don't know the passenger she (or he) is out their spreading more than their legs.

 

[Gralin]

My view is - The state government health departments own this problem, lock stock and barrel. They are the experts. They should give the advice, and the state government then ensures it is implemented and followed. I dont believe under those circumstances, with all we know of death rates around the world, that it is reasonable to outsource the control to private security guards who get 5 minutes training and minimal PPE.

However, my opinion is only formed because of media reporting.... I dont trust the government since the Mikakos "perfect" lie about the cedar meats situation.

Even Andrews himself said "the buck stops with him".... So if he is the one running the show in this state, he owns it.

PS - same situation in Tassie considering what happened in the hospital....

Same situation in Tassie?
So you blame whichever state Government an outbreak happens in for that outbreak and that's it? That's your level of analysis?

Happened in Tassie, Tassie Government to blame, happened in Vic, Vic Government to blame?

The Tassie outbreak can be traced back to the Ruby Princess but nothing to do with NSW because it didn't happen there?

It must be great to live in a world where only politicians are to blame for individuals actions and there is no such thing as accidents or bad luck, makes it nice and easy, never your fault or nobodies fault, always someone to blame

 

[Gralin]

How was it not working? How was quarantine breached? Simple question.

An infected guard caught the virus away from the hotel. Why is his infection point not the focus?

How do you know they caught it away from the hotel? Where are you getting the idea that his point of infection was not the focus?

Where is the idea that one guard is the source of all of these hundreds of cases coming from?

 

[Kanga Commando]

It simply does not add up. We must know the passenger. The guard is known. Compare the pair. Case closed. If we don't know the passenger she (or he) is out their spreading more than their legs.

Of course the permutations are impossible to quantify... Who knows who did what to how many... It doesn't matter. High standards of containment would stop the 2 hotels from being a major source of outbreak.... Vic health was warned in May. It is only being dealt with now.