Criminal charges for disease spreaders - is it time?

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Feb 9, 2009
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And first up, no we aren't talking about people who have the virus but are unaware.

Lets look at the facts. The chadstone outbreak was caused by a woman whose housemane/family (cant remember) had tested positive. Instead of isolating until the residents of the house tested negative, she went to work. There are now 35+ infected with at least 1 in intensive care. It is highly likely that someone will die having caught the virus as part of this cluster.

The regional outbreak was caused by a man who caught the virus as part of the chadstone outbreak. Granted he didnt know he had it at the time, however he did stop illegally at cafes (against the condition of his permit to travel and work). Further to that he withheld information about where he had been until 2 weeks after he tested positive, when positive tests started appearing in those places, thereby allowing the virus to spread unknown for 2 weeks. there are likely dozens now infected because of this and with those numbers, and the older age profile of regional victoria, it is likely someone will die.

and ive only specifically talking about deaths caused by this. the emotional and economic harm done by having clusters like this preventing the relaxing of lockdown measures is immeasurable.

IMHO we are at the point where serious criminal charges, jailtime even, must be given to people who flagrantly ignore isolation protocols or prevent disease control by withholding information. in the case where it causes deaths, id be in favor of something along the lines of negligence causing manslaughter (the legal definition of negligence being: a great falling short of the standard of care that a reasonable person would exercise in the circumstances). This isnt the flu or a cold where typicall people fall ill for a week or two and recover, or something like whooping cough where you'd never expect to be carrying it. this is a worldwide pandemic which has infected millions and killed hundreds of thousands in less than a year, causing international border controls and restriction of free movement only seen in the world wars, if even then. this has been around long enough to go past language and culture barriers (though i dont believe there is any implied in the cases above, unlikely in the case of the regional cases), so that is no longer an excuse.

its even different from anti-vaxxing where you are ignoring the ability to prevent yourself from catching the disease, but if you never do then no harm done. this is where you or a housemate catch a highly contagious disease, you know you must isolate to prevent the spread (and the government gives you money to do so), yet you ignore it and risk the lives of others for your own selfish desires (like visiting a cafe).

These people are selfish scum and should be treated as such.

end rant.
 
At the very least the idiot who lied to contact tracers should face civil penalties for the impact he had on regional towns.
 

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Its a conundrum. does the person withold even more information if there's serious consequences?

The system has to allow for idiots. But submitting everyone else to tougher or longer restrictions is not the answer either.

Worth noting that the person had a permit
 
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Its a conundrum. does the person withold even more information if there's serious consequences?

The system has to allow for idiots. But submitting everyone else to tougher or longer restrictions is not the answer either.

Worth noting that the person had a permit
person had a permit, but it did not allow them to make stop-overs. its already been stated that the kilmore/shepparton guy breached his permit conditions.

andrews/vicpol (cant remember who) have also said there would have been no penalties had he fessed up straight away. its common for penalties to be reduced or entirely removed if its considered that obtaining the information is considered in the public's interest. even so, if the penalty for fessing up was a fine, and the penalty for lieing is jail, that should be incentive enough.
 
You need to understand what the motivation is for someone to lie to contact tracers before deciding this. Is it fear of penalty? Fear of forcing people into lockdown or fear of blame? Rank stupidity? or is it something more nefarious?

It is clear that penalties in Victoria have been much harsher compared to the rest of country even before the second wave. Was this a mistake?
 
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You need to understand what the motivation is for someone to lie to contact tracers before deciding this. Is it fear of penalty? Fear of forcing people into lockdown or fear of blame? Rank stupidity? or is it something more nefarious?

It is clear that penalties in Victoria have been much harsher compared to the rest of country even before the second wave. Was this a mistake?
its obvious why someone would lie. they know theyve done wrong and are trying to cover themselves. but even if they did nothing wrong and they were just scared, its no excuse.

the ultimate result is getting people to provide the information they know and to comply with the restrictions. if people cannot be trusted to do so without the fear of penalty, then thats just what needs to be done. we are talking about saving lives, both from financial/emotional hardship and death. this isnt simply not telling the cops you smoked weed when your mate got hurt.

not a single person has been publicly identified as having spread it, so that excuse holds no water. more chinese people have been abused simply for being chinese and the virus having originated there, but that hasnt stopped our media calling it the kung flu.
 
its obvious why someone would lie. they know theyve done wrong and are trying to cover themselves. but even if they did nothing wrong and they were just scared, its no excuse.

the ultimate result is getting people to provide the information they know and to comply with the restrictions. if people cannot be trusted to do so without the fear of penalty, then thats just what needs to be done. we are talking about saving lives, both from financial/emotional hardship and death. this isnt simply not telling the cops you smoked weed when your mate got hurt.

not a single person has been publicly identified as having spread it, so that excuse holds no water. more chinese people have been abused simply for being chinese and the virus having originated there, but that hasnt stopped our media calling it the kung flu.
if you are doing the right thing then nothing to see here... but if you did know someone who had it, then you are trying to get back into the rabbit hole...
I think you are only moderately selfish and we would all not want to be tarred with a brush of having covid..
But I agree that contract tracing is kind of obvious where you should be able to say where you have been and with whom and perhaps even why..

being scared of it is a thing for all of us but the sense is that you can have it and not cause a problem.. ie no one gets terribly sick from it.. but we also know that it can switch to being deadly at a minutes notice..

Just musing people.. liking all the sentiments and thoughts of everyone in this thread... difficult to deal with on all fronts.
 
Worth noting that the person had a permit
Meaningless if you operate outside the permissions of that permit.
I have a permit that allows me to drive a car.
If I decide to do something outside the permissions of my permit, say drive at 150kph whilst drunk, that is my deliberate choice and breaks the law. This is no different. This guy had a permit that allowed him to do specific things, and he knowingly and deliberately chose to exceed his permissions.
 

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And who cares if he didn't tell anyone where he went for the last two weeks. As long as he downloaded that app everyone was supposed to have by now it shouldn't be a problem. And even if he did tell anyone, as if it would make a difference.
 
And who cares if he didn't tell anyone where he went for the last two weeks. As long as he downloaded that app everyone was supposed to have by now it shouldn't be a problem. And even if he did tell anyone, as if it would make a difference.

The app only works if you are within 1.5m of someone for 15 minutes . Otherwise useless

That's why it's good for helping tracers with outbreaks at pubs and restaurants, but **** on a bull for shopping centres.
 
funny, liberal stooges are normally all for locking up criminals and mandatory sentencing. or was that just for africans?

i suppose it was only a matter of time before a discussion about people willfully breaking the law and deliberately putting dozens of lives at risk was turned into a political pile on. im glad we got half a page of sensible discussion at least, that seems above the average.
 
There are already deaths associated with this current outbreak? Nothing reported so far.

Seasonal flu can be fatal. Should we apply the same rule for spreaders of seasonal flu?
 
So if a government builds a bad road we shouldn't fine people for speeding?
I don't understand this analogy.

IMO there's enough legislation unfairly targeting low-income service workers already. Given the Victorian government's failures have lead to this situation- if anyone should be filling the government coffers, it's Dan Andrews on his $441,000 salary and his bunch of lying, ineffective bureaucrats.

funny, liberal stooges are normally all for locking up criminals and mandatory sentencing. or was that just for africans?
Can't lock up the Africans, we need to keep those guys on the streets so we can fine them.
 
There is already a law for this, just needs the definition to be changed to include COVID.

Section 19A of the Crimes Act 1958 (Vic) (the Act) provides that:

A person who, without lawful excuse, intentionally causes another person to be infected with a very serious disease is guilty of an indictable offence.

 
funny, liberal stooges are normally all for locking up criminals and mandatory sentencing. or was that just for africans?

i suppose it was only a matter of time before a discussion about people willfully breaking the law and deliberately putting dozens of lives at risk was turned into a political pile on. im glad we got half a page of sensible discussion at least, that seems above the average.

I'd say the biggest stooge is the one who thinks people who don't agree with them must be into a specific political ideology.

The biggest stooges are those who cheerlead for any politician.
 

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Criminal charges for disease spreaders - is it time?

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