News Cyril and Shannyn Rioli speak to Caro - link to club statement in page 8

[Hawthorn23]

Some further developments to the story in the video below:

Mod edit: it’s a must watch for anyone reading this thread.

 

[Brishawk]

Isn't treating people differently because of there backgrounds the root of racisim?

From the human rights commission:
“Racism is more than just words, beliefs and actions. It includes all the barriers that prevent people from enjoying dignity and equality because of their race.”

If treating people differently leads to one race or cultural group enjoying less dignity and equality then that is racism. But equally treating people the same may also result in the same, depending on context.

Imagine we didn’t supply translators to allow all Australian citizens and residents to access government services. We could justify this on providing the same basic service to all people however this would be a barrier that disproportionally affects one group more than others.

 

[triple treat]

From the human rights commission:
“Racism is more than just words, beliefs and actions. It includes all the barriers that prevent people from enjoying dignity and equality because of their race.”

If treating people differently leads to one race or cultural group enjoying less dignity and equality then that is racism. But equally treating people the same may also result in the same, depending on context.

Imagine we didn’t supply translators to allow all Australian citizens and residents to access government services. We could justify this on providing the same basic service to all people however this would be a barrier that disproportionally affects one group more than others.

Read that first line again. " it includes all the barriers that prevent people from enjoying dignity and EQUALITY because of there race! So treating cultures differently takes away equality. The sooner all people are treated with the same respect and dignity the better.

 

[Gralin]

Read that first line again. " it includes all the barriers that prevent people from enjoying dignity and EQUALITY because of there race! So treating cultures differently takes away equality. The sooner all people are treated with the same respect and dignity the better.

Is this where you say you don't see colour?

 

[triple treat]

Is this where you say you don't see colour?

As a coloured man i can tell you that, no i dont see colour, i see people!!

 

[Gralin]

As a coloured man i can tell you that, no i dont see colour, i see people!!

Its amazing that you talk and argue like a white supremacist then isn't it

 

[triple treat]

Its amazing that you talk and argue like a white supremacist then isn't it

Because i dont speak or sound like Your idea of a coloured man!!

 

[Gralin]

Because i dont speak or sound like Your idea of a coloured man!!

No because you are using the same arguments currently rolled out by white supremacists

 

[Brishawk]

Read that first line again. " it includes all the barriers that prevent people from enjoying dignity and EQUALITY because of there race! So treating cultures differently takes away equality. The sooner all people are treated with the same respect and dignity the better.

 

[triple treat]

No because you are using the same arguments currently rolled out by white supremacists

Wow!!!!

 

[Gralin]

Wow!!!!

I know right. It's almost like they plan it that way.

Come up with reasonable sounding ideas if you don't look to closely

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

So why do you think calling for Kennett to be made responsible for his actions and inactions over the years is in some way excusing the actions of others?

This is a Kennett witch hunt. I am fine with that, he should have been torched years ago. Using Cyril and Shan's pain to launch an attack now and ignoring all the other crap speaks volumes about those pushing this agenda. Certainly explains why we let this stuff happen.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Shannyn is currently working in the fashion industry in Melbourne, if one of her colleagues made a joke about clothes Cyril was wearing would he get deeply offended and would she pack up her bags quit her job and go home?? No way!!
Cyril is currently working with indigenous offenders (that’s fantastic) and I know he would be very encouraging and positive with them. So let me get this straight in his eyes it is ok to commit violence or theft against someone but a bad joke or using a name for someone that was most likely never meant to offend anyone is unforgivable regardless of the amount of apologies given.

This post is so ****ed.

Do you not understand oppression, disparity, disrespect, racial inequality and how they impact people?

Do you not realise that when Cyril works with these offenders that it’s from a position of empathy and understanding what has gotten them to this point and the the issues they’ve faced?

Do you not recognize that when a egotistical white man, prone to racist barbs, makes commentary on how an indigenous woman is dressed and offers to buy her clothes that to her, he’s telling her that she’s not accepted?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

This is a Kennett witch hunt. I am fine with that, he should have been torched years ago. Using Cyril and Shan's pain to launch an attack now and ignoring all the other crap speaks volumes about those pushing this agenda. Certainly explains why we let this stuff happen.

This is not a Kennett witch hunt at all, but he has history of being outwardly racist, while other staff at the club were more likely misguided and clumsy in their handling of specific situations according to Wilson.

We don’t know who said the other outwardly racist thing, and we might not ever.

No one is ignoring the other stuff.

 

[rjslcM]

Read that first line again. " it includes all the barriers that prevent people from enjoying dignity and EQUALITY because of there race! So treating cultures differently takes away equality. The sooner all people are treated with the same respect and dignity the better.

Life would be great if we could ‘treat everyone equally’, but we’re just not there.

If you understand

• how low socioeconomic people are generally perceived (yuck, backward, smelly, poor, untrustworthy, distasteful, wasteful, stupid);

and you understand

• how somebody’s socioeconomic situation can be affected by their parenting;

and you understand

• how 60,000+ First Nations children were taken from their parents in the Stolen Generation and born without equal rights… in a society in which other peoples’ parents were able to participate in the economy freely;

and you understand

• as a result of the aforementioned points, people have seen many more First Nations people with low socioeconomic status than high socioeconomic status;

and you understand

• how seeing more First Nations people with low socioeconomic status has caused people over time to associate First Nations people with those characteristics mentioned previously: yuck, backward, smelly, poor, untrustworthy, distasteful, wasteful, stupid;

and you understand

• how First Nations people have had to fight these labels assigned to them… because the colour of their skin has often caused an unfortunate automatic association and reaction in the eye of the perceiver that being First Nations = yuck, backward, smelly, poor, untrustworthy, distasteful, wasteful, stupid when in fact the colour of their skin does not mean any of these things;

and you understand

• that we as Australians should and do feel a damn lot of guilt and shame for the intergenerational economic impact caused upon First Nations people, and all of the social issues that have come with that;

and you understand

• that it’s a good thing to want to remove barriers and treat the descendants of these people differently so that they may rise economically and socially and then truly have equality of opportunity, after being robbed of the chance for generations…

…then you’ll understand why some comments are okay to some and aren’t okay to others - and why we can’t just ‘treat everyone equally’ right at this moment in time.

Take care.

 

[hk89]

This is a Kennett witch hunt. I am fine with that, he should have been torched years ago. Using Cyril and Shan's pain to launch an attack now and ignoring all the other crap speaks volumes about those pushing this agenda. Certainly explains why we let this stuff happen.

So which is it? Is it a witch hunt or is it trying to get rid of a bloke that should have been got rid of years ago? I find the thread of your thought process really hard to follow. Nobody is ignoring "the other crap". It is partly because Kennett hasn't done anything about the other crap that people are attacking him. If the only incident to speak of was the "jeans joke", we might still have Rioli playing for us, but it wasn't and for a long time Jeff was president of the club that did nothing about "the other crap". Instead indulged in other crap himself, such as naming his racist dolls after our indigenous players. The fact that you see this as a witch hunt which ignores the "other crap" is baffling to me. Wanting to get an arseh*le who cost us the joy of seeing several more years of rioli playing is not a ****ing witch hunt. I hold Kennett partly responsible for the culture that created the other crap, and think he should go. This doesn't mean Kennett going is the only thing that should happen, it is just the bare minimum starting point.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

as a new coach to be thrust into something as sad as this so quickly, sam has handled it all very impressively

 

[Wingnut19]

This is not a Kennett witch hunt at all, but he has history of being outwardly racist, while other staff at the club were more likely misguided and clumsy in their handling of specific situations according to Wilson.

We don’t know who said the other outwardly racist thing, and we might not ever.

He has? examples?

 

[Gralin]

He has? examples?

Read the thread

 

[triple treat]

Life would be great if we could ‘treat everyone equally’, but we’re just not there.

If you understand

• how low socioeconomic people are generally perceived (yuck, backward, smelly, poor, untrustworthy, distasteful, wasteful, stupid);

and you understand

• how somebody’s socioeconomic situation can be affected by their parenting;

and you understand

• how 60,000+ Indigenous children were taken from their parents in the Stolen Generation and born without equal rights… in a society in which other peoples’ parents were able to participate in the economy freely;

and you understand

• as a result of the aforementioned points, people have seen many more Indigenous people with low socioeconomic status than high socioeconomic status;

and you understand

• how seeing more Indigenous people with low socioeconomic status has caused people over time to associate Indigenous people with those characteristics mentioned previously: yuck, backward, smelly, poor, untrustworthy, distasteful, wasteful, stupid;

and you understand

• how Indigenous people have had to fight these labels assigned to them… because the colour of their skin has often caused an unfortunate automatic association and reaction in the eye of the perceiver that being Indigenous = yuck, backward, smelly, poor, untrustworthy, distasteful, wasteful, stupid when in fact the colour of their skin does not mean any of these things;

and you understand

• that we as Australians should and do feel a damn lot of guilt and shame for the intergenerational economic impact caused upon Indigenous Australians, and all of the social issues that have come with that;

and you understand

• that it’s a good thing to want to remove barriers and treat the descendants of these people differently so that they may rise economically and socially and then truly have equality of opportunity, after being robbed of the chance for generations…

…then you’ll understand why some comments are okay to some and aren’t okay to others - and why we can’t just ‘treat everyone equally’ right at this moment in time.

Take care.

I agree but tell me this, “cause we’re not there yet” when’s gonna be a good time to start? When I walk down the street is it wrong of me to want to be seen the same as the next person?

Take care.

 

[hawkman]

What nonsense. Kennett was the president for much of the period in question, and was president as well as comment maker in the "jeans" incident and subsequent faux apology that finally triggered Rioli's departure. No one is saying there are not other issues in play, but as they say - the fish rots at the head. Kennett's mouth has been a liability for a very long time, and if removing him immediately and replacing him with someone that actually understands indigenous relations might increase the chances the club can mend its relationship with Rioli, then we should act immediately. Kennett is a dinosaur and a liability, and his departure will make it easier to fix any remaining issues with our indigenous programs, because clearly he's as blind to them as he is blind to the impact of his own words.

He actually wasn't, 2012-early 2016 was Newbold and Garvey early 2016-late 2017

Kennett should still be gone asap but most of the issues seem to be when he was away.
The biggest loss in all of this seems to be Bateman. Once he left some of these issues seem to have happened

 

[rjslcM]

I agree but tell me this, “cause we’re not there yet” when gonna be a good time to start? When I walk down the street is it wrong of me to want to be seen the same as the next person?

Take care.

I don’t think that it’s wrong of you to want that at all

A good time to not make an insensitive comment with socioeconomic undertones towards someone with a family history of economic rights stripped from them… hmm… not sure. Maybe when the wealth and unemployment gap is no longer existent. Then it might be perceived as ‘just a joke’?

It’s not for me to decide…

 

[triple treat]

I don’t think that it’s wrong of you to want that at all

A good time to not make an insensitive comment with socioeconomic undertones towards someone with a family history of economic rights stripped from them… hmm… not sure. Maybe when the wealth and unemployment gap is no longer existent. Then it might be perceived as ‘just a joke’?

It’s not for me to decide…

So what your saying is is ok for me to want that, but it’s not ok for me to expect that….. at this time?

 

[rjslcM]

So what your saying is is ok for me to want that, but it’s not ok for me to expect that….. at this time?

I can’t tell you what is ok for you to want and expect - that’s up to you.

But I’m not sure if you speak for a majority though.

In my experience, majority of Indigenous Australians want people to leave insensitive jokes that might be perceived as ‘racist’ or ‘classist’ at the door, and would prefer a bit of respect and decency - particularly in professional environments.

 

[triple treat]

I can’t tell you what is ok for you to want and expect - that’s up to you.

But I’m not sure if you speak for a majority though.

In my experience, majority of Indigenous Australians want people to leave insensitive jokes that might be perceived as ‘racist’ or ‘classist’ at the door, and would prefer a bit of respect and decency - particularly in professional environments.

That’s nice… But I can tell you in MY experience we are sick to death at being treated differently.