Some further developments to the story in the video below:
Mod edit: it’s a must watch for anyone reading this thread.
Mod edit: it’s a must watch for anyone reading this thread.
Last edited by a moderator:
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AFLW 2024 - Round 4 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
How to miss the point in one easy lesson.The fact you feel a need to classify your friends by race could be seen as casual racism as well. I have friends. Many are not the same race as I, but I don't choose which ones to spend time with or invite using their race to filter them from events or discussions. You likely don't either, but statements like that certainly can cast that impression.
Apologies if this comes off as harsh on a message board. It's just something that, with a very racially diverse family has bee a sore spot for me.
Ok so quick hypothetical. If this were an isolated incident insofar as Kennett goes, would you be calling for his resignation?How many years of goodwill is sufficient? Golliwog-gate was in 2011. This statement was made in 2018.
And intent is not required to make a racist remark. Just as intent isn’t required to be found guilty of a crime. It is a mitigating factor in the sentence only. Jeff has had years of gaffs and idiotic statements made. as premier, as president of beyond blue, and has president of the hawthorn football club it has always been his job to understand these issues. It is his job to know and no amount of goodwill can overcome the fact he deliberately keeps himself ignorant of these issues.
Suggesting that being culturally sensitive towards a group of people could be considered casual racism is really odd.The fact you feel a need to classify your friends by race could be seen as casual racism as well. I have friends. Many are not the same race as I, but I don't choose which ones to spend time with or invite using their race to filter them from events or discussions. You likely don't either, but statements like that certainly can cast that impression.
Apologies if this comes off as harsh on a message board. It's just something that, with a very racially diverse family has bee a sore spot for me.
In this hypothetical should he have known better after spending years in public leadership positions? In this hypothetical did he similarly deny culpability in causing offence and refuse to change his ways? Does he still continue to deflect away criticism and refuse to investigate the issues raised by the rioli’s?Ok so quick hypothetical. If this were an isolated incident insofar as Kennett goes, would you be calling for his resignation?
Some further developments to the story in the video below:
A very fine sentiment from Sam, who is impressing me more and more every day, on and off the field, but is important to remember also what Chance Bateman was quoted as saying the other day- this can all be quite challenging, and mistakes are invariably going to be made along the way. Your experience has naturally given you a better understanding. Others may have not has experience with Indigenous people- they may also be less empathetic, less intuitive, have lower EI.Just for reference, I have lived in FNQ for years, have played footy there and have had interactions and relationships with hundreds if not thousands of Indigenous Australians - children, teenagers, adults, elderly - so I’m not talking as if I know what’s better for Indigenous Australians than they themselves and I hope I’m not coming across that way, I’m talking from a perspective that has lived alongside, worked with and played sport with Indigenous Australians for years.
That aside, Sam Mitchell in his book, Relentless, said (to words of this effect): “There’s an old saying that you should treat people how you want to be treated. It’s wrong. You should treat people how they want to be treated.”
Treating others slightly differently to one another is probably inevitable if you believe in “you should treat people how they want to be treated.”
Some further developments to the story in the video below:
The hypothetical was clear. This happens in isolation. Yes or no?In this hypothetical should he have known better after spending years in public leadership positions? In this hypothetical did he similarly deny culpability in causing offence and refuse to change his ways? Does he still continue to deflect away criticism and refuse to investigate the issues raised by the rioli’s?
Jeff has to go because he is a barrier to change. We can’t heal as a club while it is led by a man who can’t bring himself to apologise and doesn’t think he has done any wrong.
I guess in short, my friends are not interested in me being sensitive to their "culture". They appreciate me being sensitive to them as an individual.Suggesting that being culturally sensitive towards a group of people could be considered casual racism is really odd.
It is simply not possible to say anything in isolation.The hypothetical was clear. This happens in isolation. Yes or no?
I mean, sure, but to declare that being culturally aware is casual racism is a really odd take.I guess in short, my friends are not interested in me being sensitive to their "culture". They appreciate me being sensitive to them as an individual.
It a hypothetical. Let me put it another way then, seeing as you’re so shy:It is simply not possible to say anything in isolation.
Are people not allowed to be sensitive to their own cultural needs? I think you would be surprised how ingrained cultural needs and expectations are in society. If one culture has a social norm of engaging in idle chat in order to get to know a person and another culture likes to get straight to business, both groups may appear rude to each other without cultural understanding.I guess in short, my friends are not interested in me being sensitive to their "culture". They appreciate me being sensitive to them as an individual.
Lets say a guy named Eddie made several gaffs and refused to change and was not moved on from his club. Can you see how Eddie's club was worse for it and he ultimately left in greater shame than had he cleared the air for his club to heal? Everyone was worse off for Eddie staying.It a hypothetical. Let me put it another way then, seeing as you’re so shy:
If this had been the President of another club, with no known history of racial insensitivities do you think they should be sacked?
Ok deflection, sophistry, obfuscation. Genuine lolz. About at the bottom of your bag of tricks yet?Lets say a guy named Eddie made several gaffs and refused to change and was not moved on from his club. Can you see how Eddie's club was worse for it and he ultimately left in greater shame than had he cleared the air for his club to heal? Everyone was worse off for Eddie staying.
I can't and won't say you're wrong, but I have never found it all that difficult to communicate with people (barring language barriers). It often means stepping out of my comfort zone, but at worst it's been a learning experience and has more often resulted in lasting friendships I never would have known.Are people not allowed to be sensitive to their own cultural needs? I think you would be surprised how ingrained cultural needs and expectations are in society. If one culture has a social norm of engaging in idle chat in order to get to know a person and another culture likes to get straight to business, both groups may appear rude to each other without cultural understanding.
Brilliant. They should know their placeHe he. Missed my post above obviously.
We like our aboriginals when they act like saints and don’t complain too much ….don’t we?
I don't see any reason to engage in hypotheticals when we have a test case (Eddie) and our current club is in the situation it is in. Context is everything here and you are trying to ignore it in some attempt to change the situation away from reality. So my answer is, it depends on the context. I'd never be happy with it being said by a president to a players partner. You can leave the insults at the door.Ok deflection, sophistry, obfuscation. Genuine lolz. About at the bottom of your bag of tricks yet?
Or you could have a crack at the question.
Insults? It’s a pretty accurate reflection of your tactics here. You are obviously unwilling to answer a pretty straightforward question. Let’s leave it at that.I don't see any reason to engage in hypotheticals when we have a test case (Eddie) and our current club is in the situation it is in. Context is everything here and you are trying to ignore it in some attempt to change the situation away from reality. So my answer is, it depends on the context. I'd never be happy with it being said by a president to a players partner. You can leave the insults at the door.
So you think Jeff will change? Or that he will help the club heal?Insults? It’s a pretty accurate reflection of your tactics here. You are obviously unwilling to answer a pretty straightforward question. Let’s leave it at that.
Don't really give a shit whether you are impressed or not.Not impressed with this style of arguing. If white supremacists use similar arguments to support their abhorrent world view, it's not because they believe in them. It's because they've deliberately worked out a nobler line to mask their hidden agenda. They've contaminated the message. An argument in support of equality for all is not in itself abhorrent (certainly wasn't in apartheid South Africa). 'Equality for all' might have its limitations or not take enough into account and may not be appropriate for all contexts but throwing this accusation in someone's face is poor form, especially when the poster in question seems to be wanting to engage in polite debate and an exchange of ideas.
There is no one accepted nameC’mon people it’s First Nations
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Nice. Dodge my questions and ask your own. No problem to me- I’ve already said Jeff should go. I think his position in untenable now and I think reconciliation with Rioli is far more important than his tenure continuing. But I don’t think the jeans episode is particularly damning for him.So you think Jeff will change? Or that he will help the club heal?