News Cyril and Shannyn Rioli speak to Caro - link to club statement in page 8

[Hawthorn23]

Some further developments to the story in the video below:

Mod edit: it’s a must watch for anyone reading this thread.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

No it isn’t …you know me better than myself do you ?

I’m not implying Cyril is wrong in how he feels or that there may be cause for such feelings

I’m stating that Caro is a gutter journalist and the article in tone is agenda driven

I’m stating that none of burger buddy Bateman Chad (who chose to stay ) have expressed the same feelings ..burgers smile in the hawk rooms sat night after port belting was heartwarming

I m not arguing …these are facts with the exception of Caro comment which is my opinion

But Caro is writing about Cyril’s take on the handling of Indigenous issues within the club, not hers. Take Caro out of the equation mate - I read the article and didn’t even read who wrote it. Cyril’s feelings about our club should rattle us all.

 

[Crankyhawk]

• Jed Anderson left the club at 21
• Lance Franklin left the club at 26
• Shaun Burgoyne retired and immediately joined Port Adelaide
• Junior retired early at 28 as the article states after a string of ordinary incidents

Jeff Kennett (a rich white privileged man) offered “jokingly” to give some money to a young Indigneous woman to buy thread to sew up her jeans. That’s the culture of the HFC in a nutshell. Players follow it, and aren’t called on it because the likes of Rioli don’t want to rock the boat (which is their right if they choose to do so, and as his partner sought to do at the appropriate times)

Frankly the boat needs to be rocked because our club is really no better than the Pies on this issue. Richmond and West Coast are brilliant, and we have a large gap to bridge.

We have so much to learn, and so do some posters on here. Until you’ve walked a mile in the shoes of an Indigenous woman, your understanding of the impact of that incident - as the “Straw that broke the camels back” on top of the others outlined in the very fair and objective article - will always be superficial.

I’m glad this has come out. It should have come out several years earlier. Hopefully it will be the catalyst for a fundamental change and improvement by the HFC in the area of indigenous culture, welfare and education.

while not disagreeing with the main thrust of your point, I thought Jed was a trade because we weren't sure how he was going to recover from his illness + opportunity (Ie thought it was mutual)

 

[H00t]

No it isn’t …you know me better than myself do you ?

I’m not implying Cyril is wrong in how he feels or that there may be cause for such feelings

I’m stating that Caro is a gutter journalist and the article in tone is agenda driven

I’m stating that none of burger buddy Bateman Chad (who chose to stay ) have expressed the same feelings ..burgers smile in the hawk rooms sat night after port belting was heartwarming

I m not arguing …these are facts with the exception of Caro comment which is my opinion

You are aware it’s not a one or the other deal. Chad, Bateman, Silk, Buddy might love the people at the club or their connection to the club. They were all apart of it for a long time and have formed many connections with people there.

Doesn’t mean that they agree with all that’s gone on and haven’t suffered at the hands of the club or individuals within the club.

Also worth noting Hill had the chance to return and did not.

 

[Messenger]

The article makes it clear this was a pattern of behaviour amongst some at HFC through Cyril's time so the jeans comments is final straw, not the entire complaint.

We as members and supporters may be embarrassed by the revelations, and so we should be. We each aim to live by our own values and hope those values are reflected in the organisations with which we choose to align ourselves or take a salary.

 

[Bardo State]

Man that hurt to read. To learn that the club was robbed of 2.5 years of Cyril playing top level footy and probably a lifelong relationship after because of decisions it made during his time.

Reading the article, it all comes down to tangible committments vs PR. Even at the Darwin game it came out that Cyril pushed for Hawthorn to play there because of the impact he had. And it turns out like so many other times, it wasn't important enough to the people that ran the club.

When money was spent, it was spent on symbols and events where we could get some pics with some indigenous kids in the off-season. The actual structures of the club, the investment in it's staff and their learning was near the bottom of the priorities list.

During a period with some of the best and most loved Aboriginal players the game has ever seen on the list, that's a real indictment. A perfect opportunity for the club to step out from it's racist past, gone to waste and put on the back burner.

No, not every First Nations player in that time was so hurt as to step away from the club. The bar has to be much higher than that. Losing an AFL legend because of consistent mistakes made over a decade. The bar has to be higher than that.

 

[Buzz Hawk]

That was tough reading on many levels. This comment stung me the most.
“I’d be up for helping clubs if they wanted me … Richmond or West Coast … but I wouldn’t go back to Hawthorn after what’s gone on. It’s the only club I wouldn’t put my hand up for right now.”
To think that largely due to our boofheaded president we were denied another 2 years of Cyril's brilliance.
For that reason alone (and so many other reasons) he needs to go. There can be no reconciliation with Cyril and Shannyn until he exits.
We owe Cyril, Shannyn, their family and all our indigenous players, past and present, some love, some healing, some respect, some contrition and some genuine understanding.

 

[H00t]

The context around Kennett jeans comment is disgraceful. During indigenous round where it’s meant to be a time for learning. When Shannyn was beside someone she regarded as a Mother-in-law. Who designed our indigenous gurnsey.

Kennett decides to instead talk down to her about her clothing.

Not only is it racist. But it’s also belittling and degrading. Kennett would have known this.

That’s before getting to the response to it being brought up by Kennett and the club and the other issues brought up by the article.

Clubs got a long way to go to get to where it needs to be.

 

[checkraiseulite]

Took me many years of marriage (which came after many years of living together) for me to finally grasp the point that if I’d said something that hurt her feelings that arguing that it wasn’t my intent was a waste of time. Feelings have been hurt so you need to acknowledge and move on. Trying to continually badger the other party about your intentions will do absolutely zero to resolve things.

while i have also learned the above lesson myself - often just giving it time for both parties to cool off before and reflect before trying to resolve a dispute - this is not a marital dispute playing out in private.

it’s a dispute with the partner of one of your best employees involving your president who has a huge public profile.

what was he supposed to do? admit his comments were racist? or use a more subtle variation of “i can understand how you feel that way and i’m sorry but…”

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Personally although I can't know for sure as I'm not Jeff, but it just seems like an older bloke out of touch with certain fashion that could have said the jeans comment to anyone, indigenous or not.

 

[A Diakos]

But Caro is writing about Cyril’s take on the handling of Indigenous issues within the club, not hers. Take Caro out of the equation mate - I read the article and didn’t even read who wrote it. Cyril’s feelings about our club should rattle us all.

It’s upsetting no doubt ..I love Cyril

Kennett has a big mouth which causes problems …

We ve had many aboriginal players and have one currently …thankfully they have not expressed such feelings

 

[Ned Ryerson]

while i have also learned the above lesson myself - often just giving it time for both parties to cool off before and reflect before trying to resolve a dispute - this is not a marital dispute playing out in private.

it’s a dispute with the partner of one of your best employees involving your president who has a huge public profile.

what was he supposed to do? admit his comments were racist? or use a more subtle variation of “i can understand how you feel that way and i’m sorry but…”

I guess not say ‘you’ve got an apology, what more do you want?’ as Shannyn has suggested. I don’t know what went on inside four walls - but I can definitely see Jeff as being the ‘well I wasn’t trying to be racist so what’s the problem?’ type who would just double down and not seek to understand why what he thought was a harmless joke wasn’t so harmless to Shannyn. That’s what I meant about not getting lost in trying to argue your intent. It doesn’t matter how he joked with his daughters - Shannyn isn’t his daughter and has a vastly different life experience.

It seems both Cyril and Shannyn approached the club at multiple times to do better internally and were rebuffed or diminished. It’s easy to see that Jeff playing the ‘I apologised what more do you want?’ card would be the final straw when both of them have told the club multiple times what it is they wanted.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

We ve had many aboriginal players and have one currently …thankfully they have not expressed such feelings

Because there is still to this day pressure felt by Indigenous players to toe the line, not make waves or cause trouble. Much like how Lamumba had to endure his nickname because he felt he couldn’t speak up and then people think it’s acceptable. Unfortunately we’re now past the point where we can say ‘well we’ve got some Indigenous blokes on the list so we don’t have any issues!’. Let’s listen to Cyril and hope the club makes changes.

 

[Hawk1986]

This is a very sad article. It reflects extremely poorly on the club, and it is clear we acted one way externally, and another way internally. The leaders in the club should be ashamed; as the saying goes “the standard you walk past, is the standard you accept”; and our leaders clearly didn’t stand up for Cyril and our other indigenous players as they should have, and accepted behaviour that is shameful.

 

[RoughysMullet]

Hard to read - reflects really badly on the club, particularly Jeff… hopefully he’ll be gone soon enough and we’ll be able to welcome Cyril back one day…

 

[grumbleguts]

I love Cyril even more now. What character, what integrity, what footy ability! The man is a true legend.

 

[TylerDurden]

Got all the hallmarks of Eddie's exit.

I think Cyril has finally got his revenge on Jeff. Dagger to the heart.

 

[H00t]

Got to say I’m very thankful for the culture here on this page. Some Facebook comments read a lot differently than the ones here.

Shows just how much work still needs to be done, not just in clubs but in the broader community.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Got all the hallmarks of Eddie's exit.

I think Cyril has finally got his revenge on Jeff. Dagger to the heart.

If you didn't already love Cyril - sweeping Jeff from the club is as good as him running down a rebounding defender at a packed MCG.

 

[TylerDurden]

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Got to say I’m very thankful for the culture here on this page. Some Facebook comments read a lot differently than the ones here.

Shows just how much work still needs to be done, not just in clubs but in the broader community.

Deactivating Facebook was one of the best things I ever did for my mental health. Comments on Facebook is where hatred goes to fester and multiply.

 

[OnWardnUpWard]

This isn’t on Shannyn or Cyril.

Silverware isn’t the only measure of a club’s success. I thought the Hawthorn Football Club was better than this. It has a lot of work to do.

Spectemur Agendo

 

[Hawker55]

while i have also learned the above lesson myself - often just giving it time for both parties to cool off before and reflect before trying to resolve a dispute - this is not a marital dispute playing out in private.

it’s a dispute with the partner of one of your best employees involving your president who has a huge public profile.

what was he supposed to do? admit his comments were racist? or use a more subtle variation of “i can understand how you feel that way and i’m sorry but…”

Have the awareness to not say what he said.

 

[DanA]

But is it racist to joke about jeans?

It’s extraordinarily tone deaf.

First off when someone in a position of power gives you a “subtle” dressing down like that it’s 100% bullying. Taking the cultural background out, it might fly peer to peer but they aren’t peers.

Secondly , this is a classic example of being clueless on so many levels. A football club is supposed to be something close to a family where you are accepted and embarrassed. It’s a massive betrayal that hits on so many levels.

It’s got not so subtle undertones of racism, cultural and class checking, even a hint of putting a women in her place.

And maybe it was done out of ignorance but the lack of remorse and toxicity in sweeping this under the rug is unacceptable.

 

[Stottzy]

As much as Jeff can put his foot in his mouth at times, making a light hearted joke about someones ripped designer jeans warrants a role of the eyes at best. The Sunday Church ladies could heckle harder. Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.

 

[glenferry23]

Sickening reading. I’ve been feeling so damn uncomfortable today after reading that article. So much to unpack.

Systemic racism plagues many industries, workplaces and communities. Am very disappointed with the club on this one. Kennett has had quite the eventful second tenure at the club, Cyril and then Clarkson ousted under his watch.

****ing hell. That’s disgusting by the club. Massive respect to Cyril and Shan for their honesty and bravery in speaking out on this. I listen to them. I believe them and their experience. And I’m so damn sorry it came to this.