Dank admits using Thymosin Beta 4

[FuManchu]

Not; this one club...a club a club. You're looking at the aftermath and joining the dots yourself. You're saying "the report named a club everyone knew that club would be Essendon". Dont link it automatically.

Forget Essendon. Who knew the report would only name 1 club?

I have no problem with them then immediately knowing that Essednon is that club based on what we know. But prior to AD's phone call with Evans how could anyone have known that only 1 club was going to be the focus of an entire 12 month report into the importation and distribution of PEDs into Australia by the ACC?

Because the whole industry would have known that the ACC were investigating Dank and the whole industry would have known the ACC were asking questions relating to the timeframes that Dank was involved at EFC. The whole industry would have talked to each other and shared information, including journos and AFL staff and probably EFC too. And given that EFC put an injunction on Barrett in 2012 to prevent him going with the story, EFC stood out like dogs balls on a hot day in terms of who would be the one club most likely to be named in the report.

And if the ACC have said 'A CLUB' was being investigated and named in a report and nothing else, it still would have only served to narrow the focus onto the specific club that everyone KNEW was being investigated because of all the aforementioned factors.

Once again, if the ACC aint concerned, why are you?

 

[Hearts to hearts]

Why is a thread about TB4 spending pages on arguments about the "tip off"? I am sure there's at least one better thread for that.

 

[The Dodger]

Because the whole industry would have known that the ACC were investigating Dank and the whole industry would have known the ACC were asking questions relating to the timeframes that Dank was involved at EFC. The whole industry would have talked to each other and shared information, including journos and AFL staff and probably EFC too. And given that EFC put an injunction on Barrett in 2012 to prevent him going with the story, EFC stood out like dogs balls on a hot day in terms of who would be the one club most likely to be named in the report.

Once again, if the ACC aint concerned, why are you?

The ACC aren't concerned because you cant prosecute someone fro dropping that it was 1 team. Its easy to say oh i meant teams. I use it as a guide to tell me what Evans & AD were discussing that night, and it wasn't...are we the club?...Im not sure David I don't know if it just one club?
Do you believe it happened like that and AD in no way used the information he received to guide how Evans should handle it?

first bolded; I cant see all clubs getting together and divulging where they get their drugs from. We saw after that Carlton came out with tapes etc of meetings with their chemist. Did Carlton know if anyone else approached that chemist?

On the 2nd bolded one more time; who knew 1 club? Granted Essendon would most likely be named...would Melbourne be named? Or did Melbourne trust Essendon enough to have a yarn with them about Dank's involvement at their club and how many players treated and with what and know that the ACC aren't gunning for them either? Same for Gold Coast?

 

[FuManchu]

The ACC aren't concerned because you cant prosecute someone fro dropping that it was 1 team. Its easy to say oh i meant teams. I use it as a guide to tell me what Evans & AD were discussing that night, and it wasn't...are we the club?...Im not sure David I don't know if it just one club?
Do you believe it happened like that and AD in no way used the information he received to guide how Evans should handle it?

first bolded; I cant see all clubs getting together and divulging where they get their drugs from. We saw after that Carlton came out with tapes etc of meetings with their chemist. Did Carlton know if anyone else approached that chemist?

On the 2nd bolded one more time; who knew 1 club? Granted Essendon would most likely be named...would Melbourne be named? Or did Melbourne trust Essendon enough to have a yarn with them about Dank's involvement at their club and how many players treated and with what and know that the ACC aren't gunning for them either? Same for Gold Coast?

I've explained how easy it would be to narrow it down. If youre not satisfied with that, then you need to take it to someone who can assist you with your queries. I'm more than satisfied how easy it would be to put together the whole story without AD breaching ACC confidences. And the ACC seem to be quite unconcerned about what he said too.

 

[The Dodger]

I've explained how easy it would be to narrow it down. If youre not satisfied with that, then you need to take it to someone who can assist you with your queries. I'm more than satisfied how easy it would be to put together the whole story without AD breaching ACC confidences. And the ACC seem to be quite unconcerned about what he said too.

Thats fine... right you are.

 

[jenny61_99]

Jesus I wish you blokes would stop talking... I can't keep up with everything and I've got work to do!

 

[Redacted Boner]

AD is good friends with the Evans family and involved in the Evans and Partners investment house. I believe he is or was on the advisory board.

AD knew Essendon were in trouble when Dank was sacked before the media got any wind of it. After James had already been warned about peptides.

David Evans tipped Vlad off initially, Vlads only "crime" was playing dumb when the ACC called him, then immediately calling Evans to tell him the shit was about to hit the fan and to send Dean Wallis down to officeworks to buy a boot load of paper shredders.

 

[The Dodger]

AD is good friends with the Evans family and involved in the Evans and Partners investment house. I believe he is or was on the advisory board.

AD knew Essendon were in trouble when Dank was sacked before the media got any wind of it. After James had already been warned about peptides.

David Evans tipped Vlad off initially, Vlads only "crime" was playing dumb when the ACC called him, then immediately calling Evans to tell him the shit was about to hit the fan and to send Dean Wallis down to officeworks to buy a boot load of paper shredders.

Dont want to get into it again as I have asked the question and no one has been able to reply. How would Evans & AD know that the entire ACC report would only name 1 team?

We know they knew about Essendon but how would they have known about the entire scope of the report and that it wold be about 1 team?

 

[Redacted Boner]

Dont want to get into it again as I have asked the question and no one has been able to reply. How would Evans & AD know that the entire ACC report would only name 1 team?

We know they knew about Essendon but how would they have known about the entire scope of the report and that it wold be about 1 team?

Balance of probabilities. They knew about more than the supplement program, the medicare racket and a bit more *cough* AOD Projects.

What was Vlad gonna do ring all the presidents and give them a heads up just in case they had a systematic doping regime going on too?

Would have blown the coverup right then and there.

 

[The Dodger]

Balance of probabilities. They knew about more than the supplement program, the medicare racket and a bit more *cough* AOD Projects.

What was Vlad gonna do ring all the presidents and give them a heads up just in case they had a systematic doping regime going on too?

Would have blown the coverup right then and there.

Ahhh. I must be writing in French or if you understand French then gibberish

Forget the AFL side of it. Who knew the entire ACC report would focus on 1 club. He didn't ask; are we named? are we in the report? He asked about the specific limitation of the report naming 1 club. Did Evans know where Carlton get their gear? Does he know where the Eagles get it from so much so that they are sure there are no bikie importation connections to it? Just because they didn't hire in-house doesn't meant they aren't going elsewhere to receive injections.

Dank worked at 3-4 clubs in his time. The report investigated the importation and distribution of PEDS in Australia. It wasn't focused on Essendon, Police officers in Victoria faced arrests over a PED ring IIRC. No one bar the ACC knew its breadth.

I cant say it any other way. The world knew Essendon were on something apparently but who knew the ACC report would only focus on 1 club in the AFL? For Evans to ask AD...are we the club? The club what?

are we the club infers knowledge that the entire ACC report will name one club and one club only. We get that if you had to name 1 club it would be Essendon but who knew it would only be 1 club?

Its nothing that the ACC can prosecute over as it can be seen as a mistake but its a Freudian slip of sorts. AD had a conversation with Evans about details of the report and that lead Evans to ask are we that club the report talks about to which we are lead to believe that AD (after not letting him know that it was restricted to 1 team apparently) told him I don't know David. So David Evans then without confirmation of the bloke who had been at the ACC meeting, based on rumours of a bomb going off decided to open his club up to a situation that can never end well. You would never take that step without the confirmation required. Thats why they waited that long and that is why the timing of it the way it is.

 

[Redacted Boner]

Yes you are writing in gibberish. It's not really that hard to understand.

Saving their own asses and covering up James mess came before saving the competition/other clubs on a what if everybody is doing it/involved assumption. They knew it was EFC as they were aware what James and Dank had done would raise the eyebrows of the likes of ACC/Federal police and ASADA. They were hoping it would all just blow over and go away after Dank was sacked and the feds and footy world would be none the wiser.

If other clubs were up to no good and the ACC were onto them as well, they were in for a rude awakening.

 

[The Dodger]

Yes you are writing in gibberish. It's not really that hard to understand.

Saving their own asses and covering up James mess came before saving the competition/other clubs on a what if everybody is doing it/involved assumption. They knew it was EFC as they were aware what James and Dank had done would raise the eyebrows of the likes of ACC/Federal police and ASADA. They were hoping it would all just blow over and go away after Dank was sacked and the feds and footy world would none the wiser.

If other clubs were up to no good and the ACC were onto them as well, they were in for a rude awakening.

Yep I am. Thats what I thought my argument shouldn't be hard to understand but apparently it is.

You even make it for me with "If other clubs were up to no good and the ACC were onto them as well, they were in for a rude awakening".


That line says it all.

 

[Redacted Boner]

Sorry mate, Robbo's arguments are easier to understand.

 

[The Dodger]

Sorry mate, Robbo's arguments are easier to understand.

Must be. I might write clearer if I had a few pints as well.

I just don't understand. You all agree there was a tip off and this is evidence of it but then you say nah that never happened they tipped him off on what they knew earlier coincidentally at the same time AD saw the report. Doesn't make sense IMO.

I mean that is James Hird meeting Charter & Dank on the Gold Coast type coincidence.

 

[Redacted Boner]

Must be. I might write clearer if I had a few pints as well.

I just don't understand. You all agree there was a tip off and this is evidence of it but then you say nah that never happened they tipped him off on what they knew earlier coincidentally at the same time AD saw the report. Doesn't make sense IMO.

I mean that is James Hird meeting Charter & Dank on the Gold Coast type coincidence.

Not really following you.

There was no tip off or coincidence, you went over that with the guy on the last page. Upon being made aware the ACC were investigating (before the report was tabled) AD simply gave Evans a heads up that their worst nightmare had just become a reality. Nobody knew the report would only focus on one club, as I said the balance of probabilities was that EFC was definitely one. Evans and Vlad were more worried about getting out of a potential train wreck than anything else like a hypothetical scenario if other clubs were happened to be involved too. Evans dived out early when James wanted to jam his foot on the throttle and go careering off a cliff and Vlad hospital handpassed it to Gill.

 

[The Dodger]

Not really following you.

There was no tip off or coincidence, you went over that with the guy on the last page. Upon being made aware the ACC were investigating (before the report was tabled) AD simply gave Evans a heads up that their worst nightmare had just become a reality. Nobody knew the report would only focus on one club, as I said the balance of probabilities was that EFC was definitely one. Evans and Vlad were more worried about getting out of a potential train wreck than anything else like a hypothetical scenario if other clubs were happened to be involved too. Evans dived out early when James wanted to jam his foot on the throttle and go careering off a cliff and Vlad hospital handpassed it to Gill.

The guy on the last page believes there was a tip off.

Ok first bolded is where it is at. I feel as though you are writing something without paying attention to timelines.
When was he made aware the ACC were investigating? When do you think he gave Evans the heads up and if you think it is ion the phone that night..why that night and do you think AD would have been professional enough not to mention what he had been briefed with?

2nd bolded is my point entirely. "and David asked me are we the club...and I said; I dont know David". Remembering as you put it "Nobody knew the report would only focus on one club". Someone did hence why the question was framed in that manner. Now who? hmmmmm who had just been briefed on the report and without being given a club name was probably told that one club within his league is in the shit...the club on page 17 (or whichever it was) and AD knowing what had happened was probably relived it said only 1 club but then would have gone "****ing Bombers".

 

[Redacted Boner]

The guy on the last page believes there was a tip off.

Ok first bolded is where it is at. I feel as though you are writing something without paying attention to timelines.
When was he made aware the ACC were investigating? When do you think he gave Evans the heads up and if you think it is ion the phone that night..why that night and do you think AD would have been professional enough not to mention what he had been briefed with?

2nd bolded is my point entirely. "and David asked me are we the club...and I said; I dont know David". Remembering as you put it "Nobody knew the report would only focus on one club". Someone did hence why the question was framed in that manner. Now who? hmmmmm who had just been briefed on the report and without being given a club name was probably told that one club within his league is in the shit...the club on page 17 (or whichever it was) and AD knowing what had happened was probably relived it said only 1 club but then would have gone "******* Bombers".

I believe it was late 2012, several months before the darkest day in sport presser and Essendon self reporting. It was before he'd been briefed and even so he wasn't privy to the entire thing. He didn't have the exact info to tip anybody off.

That dialogue is all fiction. To make it appear as if Vlad and Evans didn't know what was going on until the ACC let them know. Coverup Vlad knowing one of the clubs had doped, not reporting it to ASADA, Dank rorting medicare, potential investments in black market undetectable ped's and trying to whitewash it all away. How do you think the footy world would have reacted to that nuke being dropped? Other clubs would have demanded Vlads head on a pike.

They knew they were the or one of the clubs, they didn't need to ask.

Vlad would have been more like "****ing James". Like when Newman visits Jerry.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

The Dodger - it makes perfect sense to me.

Lots of people in football could have guessed EFC were in big trouble when they heard the ACC report was coming. But only someone WHO HAD READ THE REPORT would be able to make a call and say "one club is in big trouble" (to get the Evans reply "Are we the [the one and only] club?").

But. I can't tell you how little I care.

 

[Baldur]

AD has said he did not know the name of the club as he wasn't told, he probably wasn't told. But if he divulged (explicitly or inferred) any information he was given by ACCC then he broke confidentiality.

it matters not that the whole football world knew where the smoke was. What matters is AD had to adhere his confidentiality obligations.

You may think he did adhere to these obligations; maybe he did; But it's not "farcical" to suggest he didn't, knowing of the multiple phone calls to David Evans that night and the subsequent "self reporting" 2 days before the blackest day in sport.

This was all gone over last year and quite frankly is not only boring but irrelevant.

AD gets phoned by Evans and is asked "I heard on the grape vine that you had a meeting with the ACC about an investigation into drugs and dank problem we have been covering up together. Is the ACC investigating us?"

AD replies "I cannot not tell you anything"

Now AD has not relayed any confidential information but the ONLY reason he could not reply "As far as I am aware this is not the case" was if Evans guess was correct.

Which is basically what happened.

 

[The Dodger]

The Dodger - it makes perfect sense to me.

Lots of people in football could have guessed EFC were in big trouble when they heard the ACC report was coming. But only someone WHO HAD READ THE REPORT would be able to make a call and say "one club is in big trouble" (to get the Evans reply "Are we the [the one and only] club?").

But. I can't tell you how little I care.

Thanks. We obviously disagree on how important something like that is but thanks for understanding it.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

Thanks. We obviously disagree on how important something like that is but thanks for understanding it.

It could be incredibly important. But I am a) bored witless by it and b) wary of being led up a garden path by an agenda Hird has been running for months.

 

[The Dodger]

It could be incredibly important. But I am a) bored witless by it and b) wary of being led up a garden path by an agenda Hird has been running for months.

Fair enough.

 

[Redacted Boner]

This was all gone over last year and quite frankly is not only boring but irrelevant.

AD gets phoned by Evans and is asked "I heard on the grape vine that you had a meeting with the ACC about an investigation into drugs and dank problem we have been covering up together. Is the ACC investigating us?"

AD replies "I cannot not tell you anything"

Now AD has not relayed any confidential information but the ONLY reason he could not reply "As far as I am aware this is not the case" was if Evans guess was correct.

Which is basically what happened.

You are a great contributor to this board Baldur, but that whole dialogue between AD and Evans is as fictional as Game of Thrones.

It was constructed to take the gloss off Vlad's corruption, or shall we say "incompetent" cronyism.

 

[Baldur]

You are a great contributor to this board Baldur, but that whole dialogue between AD and Evans is as fictional as Game of Thrones.

It was constructed to take the gloss off Vlad's corruption, or shall we say "incompetent" cronyism.

I admit I made the dialogue up, not that it was my intention for people to think it was the word for word events. And I agree that Vlad is corrupt, but he is a smart corrupt ahole, just the sort to get around the rules without breaking them. That's what I believe happened, Vlad alerted Evans but in a manner where he bend, twisted, folded and mutilated the rules without breaking them.

 

[SizzleChest]

It seems that the ACC interview and the alleged email about the S2 catch-all clause in May 2012 really got the wind up Dank with regard to the status of TB4. I wonder what changed in his mind at that time.. ASADA have stated that TB4 has been listed as prohibited from "at least 2011", and the same S2 catch-all clause has been part of the WADA prohibited list since 2010, so there should have been no surprises.

Clearly Dank is not risk averse, but I doubt he set out to blatantly contravene S2 in the prohibited list. I reckon it's more likely that he thought he had some kind of loophole in the code. Is it possible that TB4 was classified as an S0 substance in 2011? I find it strange that AOD9604 is not classified as a S2 substance, I would have thought it's neatly captured by the S2 catch-all clause. Alternatively, maybe Dank figured he could successfully argue that TB4 does not share a similar biological effect or chemical structure with other prohibited peptides and hormones.. though that seems like one hell of a long shot and even less likely. And least likely of all, maybe when Dank realised he was under the spotlight it dawned on him that he had been fairly careless throwing around the generic term Thymosin, when in fact he meant Thymomodulin, and thought it best to clarify/backdate everything as Thymomodulin.