Dogs Owned By Cats Yet Again - 94-66 Loss

[D Mitchell]

What? We outscored them in both the first and last quarters.

The third quarter was 50-3, the rest of the game was an arm wrestle against the best team in the league.

You are right, I'd forgotten about the last 2 junk time goals when Geelong were more concerned about which players would carry Selwood off. It wasn't a draw of quarter by quarter, Geelong was better than us for 3/4 of the match. I can't agree with your conclusion that the game was an arm wrestle but for the 3rd quarter. The lesson is that our players have to apply pressure, work hard, run, present options, not just occasionally but for the whole game, like they did in September 2016.

 

[Dogsman16]

He looks a perfectly fine field kick to me. Having a slightly unusual kicking action does not make one a bad kick.
Dale Morris was hardly a damaging kick for your mob. Did he need to be? No, he was an A-grade defender above all else.
Honestly I don't get the argument that you can't move Naughton to defence because of his kicking when you're literally playing Gardner there.


Maybe there is a centre-bounce problem in your team, but consider this:
You are never going to dominate a good quality opposition midfield for an entire game. Your team will have your periods of dominance, and your opponent will have your periods of dominance.
The difference with Geelong was while the Bulldogs were dominating, they had Tom Stewart, Sam de Koning, Jack Henry and co limiting the damage. When Geelong had their period of midfield dominance in the 3rd qtr, you had Gardner, Hannan, Cordy, Daniel and co repeatedly flubbing it and getting their structure wrong.

"Naughton wasn’t stopping any of those with intercepting or spoiling"
Based on what? This seems like a strange conclusion to draw.

The Bulldogs had their share of centre-bounce clearances last night, but guess what? Geelong neutralized a lot of them thanks to good structure and good defenders.
Even with 6-6-6, you can still defend fast centre clearances.

A major problem with Naughton going to defence is that if we moved Naughton to defence this week against Fremantle, your basically asking Jamarra to go from the number 3 KPF to the number 1 KPF in the space of a few weeks. Bruce is close to being dropped and right now Jamarra would be considered the bigger threat out of the two.

Look at your own team for example. Balta, Tarrant, Grimes. None of whom are high draft picks. At the top of my head Balta is the earliest selection at pick 25.

You can find good interceptors from anywhere. It's the easiest position to find. Tom Stewart, James Sicily, all late draft picks I could go on and on. Sydney just turned a failed number one draft pick from a state league into one of the premier interceptors in the comp in P. McCartin. Sam collins was delisted by Freo and spent a year playing VFL.

Gun/Potential Gun KPF's don't grow on trees. Our club knows that more than anymore.

What our club needs to do it find a cheap option to turn into a Sam Collins/P.Mccartin/Tom Stewart. Instead of throwing a contract on a VFL midfielder in our twos like we do far too often.

We also need to develop a way for our midfield to stem the bleeding from the centre. Too many times its walked out the front of the centre bounce in consecutive centre bounces and we have no respite to an already flimsy defence.

 

[Next Waiting]

A major problem with Naughton going to defence is that if we moved Naughton to defence this week against Fremantle, your basically asking Jamarra to go from the number 3 KPF to the number 1 KPF in the space of a few weeks. Bruce is close to being dropped and right now Jamarra would be considered the bigger threat out of the two.

Look at your own team for example. Balta, Tarrant, Grimes. None of whom are high draft picks. At the top of my head Balta is the earliest selection at pick 25.

You can find good interceptors from anywhere. It's the easiest position to find. Tom Stewart, James Sicily, all late draft picks I could go on and on. Sydney just turned a failed number one draft pick from a state league into one of the premier interceptors in the comp in P. McCartin. Sam collins was delisted by Freo and spent a year playing VFL.

Gun/Potential Gun KPF's don't grow on trees. Our club knows that more than anymore.

What our club needs to do it find a cheap option to turn into a Sam Collins/P.Mccartin/Tom Stewart. Instead of throwing a contract on a VFL midfielder in our twos like we do far too often.

We also need to develop a way for our midfield to stem the bleeding from the centre. Too many times its walked out the front of the centre bounce in consecutive centre bounces and we have no respite to an already flimsy defence.

But that's not going to happen in the next 8 weeks. We need a solution now to make the most of September if we make it.

Naughts back, Martin into the ruck and English at CHF (or maybe FF) are 3 options that are yet to be fully explored, if explored at all.

 

[Dogsman16]

But that's not going to happen in the next 8 weeks. We need a solution now to make the most of September if we make it.

Naughts back, Martin into the ruck and English at CHF (or maybe FF) are 3 options that are yet to be fully explored, if explored at all.

Right now we would have to go on a historic 7 game win streak to win a premiership (which we aren't doing).

And yes our club has pulled off the impossible before but with our lack of pressure on the ball carrier, our bullshit man on the mark tactic and flimsy/inexperienced 1-4 KPD/medium defensive options, we just aint going anywhere this year. Our gamestyle simply isn't sustainable this year.

100% correct we should be selecting 2 rucks. Bev won't be bringing back Martin just to put English majority forward. That wont happen.

Personally, I'd develop a couple of players in the final 3 rds. Darcy to play out the season and Bruce on ice for 2023. Cleary in to replace Hannan.

Play some kids. If we make finals and get some big game experience into Darcy, Jamarra, Cleary, Garcia etc thats great.

 

[Next Waiting]

Right now we would have to go on a historic 7 game win streak to win a premiership (which we aren't doing).

And yes our club has pulled off the impossible before but with our lack of pressure on the ball carrier, our bullshit man on the mark tactic and flimsy/inexperienced 1-4 KPD/medium defensive options, we just aint going anywhere this year. Our gamestyle simply isn't sustainable this year.

100% correct we should be selecting 2 rucks. Bev won't be bringing back Martin just to put English majority forward. That wont happen.

Personally, I'd develop a couple of players in the final 3 rds. Darcy to play out the season and Bruce on ice for 2023. Cleary in to replace Hannan.

Play some kids. If we make finals and get some big game experience into Darcy, Jamarra, Cleary, Garcia etc thats great.

Records are made to broken. Someone has to go on a 7 game win streak to win it all. As unlikely as that is, it ain't over till it's over.

The application of pressure is a state of mind. Of all the challenges, that's the biggest challenge for the coach at present.

If I were a Dogs midfielder though, I think I'd walk a little taller with a fit Martin in the ruck and Naughts down back. And playing Martin in the ruck and English forward has worked before. Can't recall if it's even been tried this season. If it has, it was early in the season.

Until we reach the point that it becomes over, if it does, I'm not playing kids for experience.

We're still alive. I'm playing to win....this year.

 

[footscray1973]

I see a lot of posts that this loss wasn’t due to Hannan, McComb or any other whipping boys so criticism directed at them is unwarranted.

Hate to be pedantic, but I think most/all of those posts were saying Hannan and McComb were not solely responsible, and that the mids were the most culpable. No one is saying don't criticise them, just that any criticism of them should equally apply to most of the rest of the team. Hannan and McComb are easy targets, but not deserving of a pile on if the same pile on is not directed at our so-called stellar midfield, and English, Naughton, Daniel, etc.

 

[ScragCity]

Records are made to broken. Someone has to go on a 7 game win streak to win it all. As unlikely as that is, it ain't over till it's over.

The application of pressure is a state of mind. Of all the challenges, that's the biggest challenge for the coach at present.

If I were a Dogs midfielder though, I think I'd walk a little taller with a fit Martin in the ruck and Naughts down back. And playing Martin in the ruck and English forward has worked before. Can't recall if it's even been tried this season. If it has, it was early in the season.

Until we reach the point that it becomes over, if it does, I'm not playing kids for experience.

We're still alive. I'm playing to win....this year.

And my axe!

 

[Dogsman16]

Records are made to broken. Someone has to go on a 7 game win streak to win it all. As unlikely as that is, it ain't over till it's over.

The application of pressure is a state of mind. Of all the challenges, that's the biggest challenge for the coach at present.

If I were a Dogs midfielder though, I think I'd walk a little taller with a fit Martin in the ruck and Naughts down back. And playing Martin in the ruck and English forward has worked before. Can't recall if it's even been tried this season. If it has, it was early in the season.

Until we reach the point that it becomes over, if it does, I'm not playing kids for experience.

We're still alive. I'm playing to win....this year.

Fair enough. I admire the optimism and the hope.

I see a across the park structure, a lack of a good secondary ruck option, flimsy/inexperienced medium defenders, keath's form dropping off the face of the earth all as primary factors about why we simply can't win 7 games in a row. 2016 and 2021 was different.

2016 - we had a major injury crisis in which we fortunately had a bunch of key players all returning for the finals.
2021 - top 2 basically all year and then Bruce's injury basically cost us a top 4 spot. We had the right strategy but simply werent able to handle Melbourne (who would have in that 3rd/4th qtr) with a key player also changing the forward setup.

I can't see it happening this year. Furtherest we can go is probably a semi-final in my opinion.

 

[Next Waiting]

Fair enough. I admire the optimism and the hope.

I see a across the park structure, a lack of a good secondary ruck option, flimsy/inexperienced medium defenders, keath's form dropping off the face of the earth all as primary factors about why we simply can't win 7 games in a row. 2016 and 2021 was different.

2016 - we had a major injury crisis in which we fortunately had a bunch of key players all returning for the finals.
2021 - top 2 basically all year and then Bruce's injury basically cost us a top 4 spot. We had the right strategy but simply werent able to handle Melbourne (who would have in that 3rd/4th qtr) with a key player also changing the forward setup.

I can't see it happening this year. Furtherest we can go is probably a semi-final in my opinion.

And it might pan out that way. But if the playing groups' and the coaching staffs' mindset right now isn't, we're in it to win it, even from this far back, I'd be disappointed.

 

[immortalmike]

It’s a never ending discussion on here whether we should send him back or not.

At this point I want it to happen so that those same people can start begging for him to play forward again.

 

[Philthy1]

At this point I want it to happen so that those same people can start begging for him to play forward again.

Well, to stand a chance of a decent crack at finishing top 4 next year we need to line up significantly better than we have this year.

Jones in definitely helps. As does Lobb if we get him. we need a proper Easton Wood replacement. A pre-season under Darcy’s belt and we can start thinking about shuffling the magnets.

Bruce needs to come good tho.

 

[_Mike_]

At this point I want it to happen so that those same people can start begging for him to play forward again.

Many said the same thing about Grant when he was switched from CHF to CHB. That move snagged him a Brownlow until that fat corrupt **** Collins took it off him.

 

[immortalmike]

Many said the same thing about Grant when he was switched from CHF to CHB. That move snagged him a Brownlow until that fat corrupt * Collins took it off him.

Nobody said that about Grant.
He also was one vote off as a CHB in 1996 and won it as a CHF in 1997.

 

[_Mike_]

Nobody said that about Grant.
He also was one vote off as a CHB in 1996 and won it as a CHF in 1997.

disagree with you there, he played CHB for a portion of the season switching between CHB & CHF. IIRC he was playing CHB against Holland which was the incident where Collins suspended him.

 

[bresker]

Opposition coaches offering us condescending 'good fellow' comments does my head in. Why not tell it like it is: "We applied pressure and they crumbled as usual."

They want to keep Bev in a job for as long as possible

 

[immortalmike]

disagree with you there, he played CHB for a portion of the season switching between CHB & CHF. IIRC he was playing CHB against Holland which was the incident where Collins suspended him.

My point was though not that he shouldn't play back because he's needed forward. More that he is far too reckless a player to play back.
He will be beaten on the lead, he will knock out himself and other defenders flying for marks and he will bite off more than he can chew by hand and foot.

None of this applies to Chris Grant who had the best football brain I've ever seen. He could play any position on the ground if he wanted to. Naughton is extremely gifted but isn't a patch on Turtle above the shoulders.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Did we win if we ignore the 3rd quarter?

 

[_Mike_]

Naughton is extremely gifted but isn't a patch on Turtle above the shoulders.

isn’t that a little bit judgmental considering Naughton played his footy on the backline before being drafted?

An agile and athletic key defender from Western Australia, Aaron Naughton was drafted to the Kennel with the ninth pick in the 2017 NAB AFL Draft. Rated by scouts as the best intercept marker in his draft class

With the right backline coach who knows what he could do. Since you’re set on keeping him as a forward I’m not going to continue arguing opinions on the matter. They’re playing him there with Bruce, JUH and sometimes English. Too tall on the forward line IMO, but this is not the fault of the players, it’s an MC selection & match day coaching issue

 

[footscray1973]

disagree with you there, he played CHB for a portion of the season switching between CHB & CHF. IIRC he was playing CHB against Holland which was the incident where Collins suspended him.

He played CHB first 4 games in 1997. In one of them he played on Matthew Richardson in round 3. Richo got votes, Grant got none. Another he played on Neitz, plus round 1 v Freo where Wallace went on his media rant. Think the last one was v Sydney.

 

[Oliver G]

Did we win if we ignore the 3rd quarter?

Yes...

Score Minus Third Quarter
WB: 9.9 (63)
GE: 6.8 (44)

 

[immortalmike]

isn’t that a little bit judgmental considering Naughton played his footy on the backline before being drafted?

An agile and athletic key defender from Western Australia, Aaron Naughton was drafted to the Kennel with the ninth pick in the 2017 NAB AFL Draft. Rated by scouts as the best intercept marker in his draft class

With the right backline coach who knows what he could do. Since you’re set on keeping him as a forward I’m not going to continue arguing opinions on the matter. They’re playing him there with Bruce, JUH and sometimes English. Too tall on the forward line IMO, but this is not the fault of the players, it’s an MC selection & match day coaching issue

Dude. I obviously know Naughton was drafted as a defender. That was a bit unnecessary.

Lots of players are drafted as one thing and end up better suited for other positions. Naughton's weaknesses are better hidden in the forward line. That isn't judgemental it's my assessment having watched his whole career.

Disagree if you like, but telling me what he was drafted as isn't going to be very persuasive.

Three talls is hardly a problem considering Naughton and Marra's ground ball game.

 

[Doggies_13]

He looks a perfectly fine field kick to me. Having a slightly unusual kicking action does not make one a bad kick.
Dale Morris was hardly a damaging kick for your mob. Did he need to be? No, he was an A-grade defender above all else.
Honestly I don't get the argument that you can't move Naughton to defence because of his kicking when you're literally playing Gardner there.


Maybe there is a centre-bounce problem in your team, but consider this:
You are never going to dominate a good quality opposition midfield for an entire game. Your team will have your periods of dominance, and your opponent will have your periods of dominance.
The difference with Geelong was while the Bulldogs were dominating, they had Tom Stewart, Sam de Koning, Jack Henry and co limiting the damage. When Geelong had their period of midfield dominance in the 3rd qtr, you had Gardner, Hannan, Cordy, Daniel and co repeatedly flubbing it and getting their structure wrong.

"Naughton wasn’t stopping any of those with intercepting or spoiling"
Based on what? This seems like a strange conclusion to draw.

The Bulldogs had their share of centre-bounce clearances last night, but guess what? Geelong neutralized a lot of them thanks to good structure and good defenders.
Even with 6-6-6, you can still defend fast centre clearances.

Point out which goals Naughton would have stopped during that period of dominance?

Most of the goals during that period of dominance were out the back goals, goals from turnovers where everyone was out of position and centre clearance scores.

Naughton has 44 goals with 3 games remaining based on his average he’s likely to kick 50 goals for the year taking a 50 goal forward out of a forward line is a big hole.

 

[Doggies_13]

I think he can make some difference at 6 6 6 CBs because of his speed, athleticism and reading of the play. Fast enough to get a body on or to get a hand in some of the time...which might be enough.

Granted the howler kicks from Daniel etc coming out of defence or in the back half fcuk everybody over and Naughts would be no exception.

Also, I don't for a moment dispute that the midfield/ruck/rover rolling over is the primary cause of these CB leaks and is the number one priority. Part of my solution to that is to put Martin in the ruck at CBs and for the midfielders to eat some fcuking concrete.

But we need some insurance down back and Naughton is it. The premium being paid is him not being forward. I'm happy to pay it.

Naughton would not have made a difference being down back last night given the way Geelong scored there goals.

Now I understand the intercepting could be a weapon down there but without pressure on the ball carrier and a better tactic to slow opposition ball movement when we constantly allow them to transition quickly he isn’t making a difference.

Him back is an unknown what effect he’d have. Him out of the forward line we need to replace 50 goals

 

[Dogsman16]

isn’t that a little bit judgmental considering Naughton played his footy on the backline before being drafted?

An agile and athletic key defender from Western Australia, Aaron Naughton was drafted to the Kennel with the ninth pick in the 2017 NAB AFL Draft. Rated by scouts as the best intercept marker in his draft class

With the right backline coach who knows what he could do. Since you’re set on keeping him as a forward I’m not going to continue arguing opinions on the matter. They’re playing him there with Bruce, JUH and sometimes English. Too tall on the forward line IMO, but this is not the fault of the players, it’s an MC selection & match day coaching issue

Over the past 2 seasons we have only had 2 opportunities to see how our forward line played without Naughton.

In both of those games we have been completely destroyed by the oppositions primary key defender.

Swans rd 17 2021 - Tom Mccartin (4 Contested Marks, 6 intercept marks), 8 Coaches votes
Saints rd 18 2022 - Callum Wilkie (3 Contested Marks, 8 Intercept marks), 7 Coaches votes.

Even Josh Battle had a good game (2 Contested marks, 5 Intercept marks) in our most recent outing. Meanwhile Jamarra and Bruce only took one mark between them (fortunately Jamarra kicked 3 goals (2 from general play and a mark on his bootlaces)). The only reason we beat the saints 2 weeks ago is that our mids gave them an absolute bath in stoppages (41-21) thus giving us the numbers behind the ball we require.

Our forward line simply won't function without Naughton up forward. There is no evidence to support that we could cope without him up forward.

It's beyond repair this year but we do already have Jones almost guaranteed plus with the trade capital (first round pick plus potentially losing dunkley) to really bolster our back half.

I'm supportive of being more open to swing him back if need be during games though. I think its a option that should be utilised a little more to stem the tide (thats if our mids can't do the job)

 

[BEaston]

Bruce, Daniel, Hannan, mccomb, Bailey Smith

3

Bailey Smith

Age

24

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

absolutely shizen.