Essendon's 1897 and 1924 flags

[BigVic]

100 years ago, Essendon won the flag that year without a grand final played with the finals in 1924 decided by a round robin system as with the inaugural VFL season in 1897, also won by Essendon.

The round-robin system has not been used since then with all clubs winning premierships with a grand final played.

 

[aj1992]

100 years ago, Essendon won the flag that year without a grand final played with the finals in 1924 decided by a round robin system as with the inaugural VFL season in 1897, also won by Essendon.

The round-robin system has not been used since then with all clubs winning premierships with a grand final played.

So?

 

[STPer18]

100 years ago, Essendon won the flag that year without a grand final played with the finals in 1924 decided by a round robin system as with the inaugural VFL season in 1897, also won by Essendon.

The round-robin system has not been used since then with all clubs winning premierships with a grand final played.

And 1930 Collingwood lost to Geelong in the 'Prelim' but had the rights to challenge and then won a week later in the 'GF', but had they won the 'Prelim' it would've retrospectively become the 'GF'. If you want to count the 'good old days' you either count them all under the rules of the day or count none of them.

Argus finals system - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

1930 VFL season - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Chief]

100 years ago, Essendon won the flag that year without a grand final played with the finals in 1924 decided by a round robin system as with the inaugural VFL season in 1897, also won by Essendon.

The round-robin system has not been used since then with all clubs winning premierships with a grand final played.

Interesting fact.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Won them fair and square from memory, no blatantly dodgy advantage calls.

 

[Chief]

I'm just watching this thread to see who takes it into random slagging off of other teams, players and site users.

Some New Years heads on pikes might be needed, just to set the behaviour expectations for the 2024 season.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

And 1930 Collingwood lost to Geelong in the 'Prelim' but had the rights to challenge and then won a week later in the 'GF', but had they won the 'Prelim' it would've retrospectively become the 'GF'. If you want to count the 'good old days' you either count them all under the rules of the day or count none of them.

Argus finals system - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

1930 VFL season - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

How did that work?

The finals just played out as normal but if the minor premier didn’t win the flag, they got to demand a play-off?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

100 years ago, Essendon won the flag that year without a grand final played with the finals in 1924 decided by a round robin system as with the inaugural VFL season in 1897, also won by Essendon.

The round-robin system has not been used since then with all clubs winning premierships with a grand final played.

As 1924 premiers we also played Footscray (VFA premiers) in an exhibition match, the Dame Nellie Melba's Appeal for Limbless Soldiers Match.

Footscray won by 28 points.

Footscray was super keen to win as it would prove they were up to VFL standard and it would enhance their bid to join the League. There were rumours that they paid Essendon to throw the game.

Nobody from either club ever confirmed it in the years / decades following however.

It was a post season exhibition game and it’s quite possible Essendon just didn’t take it that seriously. Footscray were very strong, having won the past two VFA flags.

In any case Footscray won the right to enter the VFL the next year.

 

[STPer18]

How did that work?

The finals just played out as normal but if the minor premier didn’t win the flag, they got to demand a play-off?

Essentially.

 

[Engimal v3]

Congratulations to all involved

 

[caloschwaby]

Essentially.

View attachment 1881032

A few cases where the minor premier didn't even make it out of the first week of finals and still being able to challenge. 1922 Pies finished 1st before losing to 3rd placed Fitzroy in Week 1. Fitzroy went on to win the next week too, where Collingwood then challenged and lost again in another close affair.

A very interesting system and honestly doesn't seem that archaic given the double chance system we have nowadays provides similar advantages not just to the minor premiers, but the Top 4 teams entirely. Essentially it's a mechanism to make sure the best team across the whole H&A season really wasn't the best team that year after all.

 

[caloschwaby]

If you want to count the 'good old days' you either count them all under the rules of the day or count none of them.

This is pretty much spot on for any sport. At the end of the day you can't claim Essendon haven't won 16 premierships as they were likely the team that would've likely won on a hypothetical 1897/1924 GF day anyway finishing equal 1st and 1st, respectively (beating Geelong in week 1 of that 1897 round robin already).

I guess they've only won 14 Grand Finals, which the black and white in me is tempted to roll all the way home with, but it's just semantics then.

 

[Chief]

Ah! So that's what the OP was trying to start a fight over.

 

[Breretonisahood]

TBH all those pre-1961 flags were a bit of a joke

 

[Freomaniac]

I'm just watching this thread to see who takes it into random slagging off of other teams, players and site users.

Some New Years heads on pikes might be needed, just to set the behaviour expectations for the 2024 season.

Popcorn is needed.

ferball and Engimal v3 I might sit this one out and have a cigarette. LoL

 

[ferball]

Popcorn is needed.

ferball and Engimal v3 I might sit this one out and have a cigarette. LoL

So what this thread is really saying is Essendon really need multiple of these * next to their "GF tally."

Makes sense I spose.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

TBH all those pre-1961 flags were a bit of a joke

Actually, all the flags in the history of the sport are a bit of a joke.

We all know the cool teams are the ones who have AFLXs premierships within their tally

 

[GetDimmaBack]

Footscray was super keen to win as it would prove they were up to VFL standard and it would enhance their bid to join the League. There were rumours that they paid Essendon to throw the game.

Interesting take. Never heard that angle before.

The story has always been that some Essendon players had backed tbe Dogs to win and played "dead" on the day.

Internally, there was a bit of argy-bargy. A few angry Essendon players accused other teammates of being in on it.

 

[Tandy]

Should all be broken down and acknowledged as VFA, VFL and AFL flags. VFA flags might mean something to the club supporters and that club but c'mon lol.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Should all be broken down and acknowledged as VFA, VFL and AFL flags. VFA flags might mean something to the club supporters and that club but c'mon lol.

 

[GoldbergsGold]

And 1930 Collingwood lost to Geelong in the 'Prelim' but had the rights to challenge and then won a week later in the 'GF', but had they won the 'Prelim' it would've retrospectively become the 'GF'. If you want to count the 'good old days' you either count them all under the rules of the day or count none of them.

Argus finals system - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

1930 VFL season - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That's interesting that doesn't count as 2 grand finals. I don't think the term grand final was even used until the 1930's, I think it was just called "The Final."

 

[GoldbergsGold]

Essentially.

View attachment 1881032

So basically, if the minor premiership won their first final, they could get 2 games that act as grand finals. Meaning - the minor premier could lose the first grand final, they'd be no premiership to the winner, it'd just go to a second grand final that would ultimately decide the premier. Or, if the minor premier won the first grand final, they'd outright win the premiership, no second grand final. Whereas if they lost the first finals game, they'd only get 1 grand final that would ultimately decide the premier.

 

[rapidfire7]

I'm still fuming over the 1897 flag. The top 2 teams at the end of the round robin should have then played in the GF. It's not too late to put things right. I'm going to get Colin Carter onto this one too. His next passion project.

 

[Freomaniac]

So what this thread is really saying is Essendon really need multiple of these * next to their "GF tally."

Makes sense I spose.

For all the times Essendon posters have sunk the Boots in on North. It just would be Ironic that Brad Scott could do something no Essendon coach has done in 20 seasons... get a finals win. lol

They had Premiership Coaches in John Worsfold and Bomber Thompson as coaches and neither could get Essendon a finals win.

North Melbourne fans will have mixed views on Brad Scott.

I always respected Brad Scott for getting 4 finals wins with that North Melbourne squad with the players he had at the time.

Beat 4 different teams to win finals too. Essendon and Geelong in 2014. Richmond and Swans in 2015.