Etihad Stadium Gone by 2025?

[MisterMarcus]

Southbank works because it already had infrastructure around it to attract people to the area. There's the Exhibition building, Crown, NGV, Hamer Hall, the Victorian Arts Centre and it's next to the Alexandra Gardens, which is a great place. It's a place for culture. I dunno about the South Wharf, I've never heard many people crowing about it.

Things like Crown and Jeff's Shed weren't built until AFTER Southbank was developed. You had the Arts Centre and that was it. Driving along the old Yarrabank Road, the area was full of run-down warehouses, used car yards, and decaying old docks (around South Wharf). I am old enough to remember that Southbank was far from universally accepted at first....."just the stupid casino and some dumb American-ised apartments!". Basically, it was the Docklands of the 90s.

Docklands has its problems, but it is a VAST improvement on having hundreds of rusting railway tracks and deserted docklands on the doorstep of the CBD. In time, it will be accepted the same way Southbank was.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

The MCG is brilliant and everyone loves it, but let's face it we love it for one reason, its capacity!
If the G only held 60k all these nice walks, good location etc etc don't mean a lot.
100k capacity is why the G is what it is.
Getting rid of Waverly was a bad decision.
Docklands stadium they can do as they please with, get rid of it, keep it, build a new one. Don't really care one way or another.
The clubs however should care about a decent stadium deal.

 

[Richo83]

Things like Crown and Jeff's Shed weren't built until AFTER Southbank was developed. You had the Arts Centre and that was it. Driving along the old Yarrabank Road, the area was full of run-down warehouses, used car yards, and decaying old docks (around South Wharf). I am old enough to remember that Southbank was far from universally accepted at first....."just the stupid casino and some dumb American-ised apartments!". Basically, it was the Docklands of the 90s.

Docklands has its problems, but it is a VAST improvement on having hundreds of rusting railway tracks and deserted docklands on the doorstep of the CBD. In time, it will be accepted the same way Southbank was.

Er, it had the NGV, the arts centre, Hamer Hall, all those were there before the casino or the exhibition centre was developed. It also has a really nice park near it. My point was that in the beginning, Southbank already had something to work on, Docklands had nothing to develop on. It's also near a bunch of train tracks meaning that it's cut off from the CBD, whereas Southbank is more open.

 

[cats2rise]

The MCG is brilliant and everyone loves it, but let's face it we love it for one reason, its capacity!
If the G only held 60k all these nice walks, good location etc etc don't mean a lot.
100k capacity is why the G is what it is.
Getting rid of Waverly was a bad decision.
Docklands stadium they can do as they please with, get rid of it, keep it, build a new one. Don't really care one way or another.
The clubs however should care about a decent stadium deal.

Waverly was (from all reports, I never went) horribly windy and copped a heap of rain due to the geographic location.

Transport planning (or lack of) made it a poor destination stadium.

The accessibility and usability of the G makes it good. Not the capacity. Thats just a bonus to have a stadium so well situated with that capacity. Again, being surrounded by crown land is even better.

 

[cats2rise]

Things like Crown and Jeff's Shed weren't built until AFTER Southbank was developed. You had the Arts Centre and that was it. Driving along the old Yarrabank Road, the area was full of run-down warehouses, used car yards, and decaying old docks (around South Wharf). I am old enough to remember that Southbank was far from universally accepted at first....."just the stupid casino and some dumb American-ised apartments!". Basically, it was the Docklands of the 90s.

Docklands has its problems, but it is a VAST improvement on having hundreds of rusting railway tracks and deserted docklands on the doorstep of the CBD. In time, it will be accepted the same way Southbank was.

Planners/designers/architects had the foresight to note that Yarrabank Road (now the southgate area) was north facing, and accessibility/mobility and interaction with the waterfront was the key to a successful regeneration project. It grew organically - planners and designers knew it had the orientation and location to work, and did not need to push it - whereas at Docklands, this was not the case.

It was then noted that this area, due to the planning of the north-facing interactive area, was the 'right' place for a casino after initial renewal steps had taken place.

Local Government at the time wanted to have the now southbank river walk a grassed area, and had to have their arm twisted that this was a horrible idea as the amount of foot traffic would not let the grass grow, and it would turn into a slushpit in winter.

Evan Walker - planning minister at the time - did a great job regarding southbank. He knew what the go was. Matthew Guy is a plonker, and not a planner, and Fishermans Bend is already a mess without even starting. That could be a potential new area for a stadium too?

Problem is now, instead of the government and/or afl buying up land at industrial prices for all sporting, educational and community facilities, they have to pay commercial prices due to the rezoning. Idiots.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/f...r-evan-walker-remembered-20150217-13gvr5.html

 

[yyou]

The major issue with Docklands is the appalling town planning and forethought.

They've basically built a hub for adults with no children, with no facilities to accommodate or care for kids or entertain them. So, unsurprisingly - the entire place consists of singles, or couples without kids and it is deserted from 8am to 6 pm (as everyone's at work) - there are no retailers there (as there is no-one to sell anything to) and the entire place is a ghost-town.

If it hadn't simply consisted of high rise apartments, and had a mixed dwelling structure, accommodating for a range of family types, it would have been much more successful. But the almighty dollar and appeasing to construction firms was far more important at the time...

And this continues with nearly every single decision on town planning with a bulls roar of the CBD....

I live really close (2 Rocca punts) to Etihad & I've got a wife & kid.
It's bloody awesome living there.
Just sayin', but I do agree that it is lifeless when there isn't anything on at Etihad

 

[TedDougChris]

I live really close (2 Rocca punts) to Etihad & I've got a wife & kid.
It's bloody awesome living there.
Just sayin', but I do agree that it is lifeless when there isn't anything on at Etihad

I suspect you'll be in the minority in this case though. I had mates living in one of the high rises on Southbank, who's recently moved out when they've had kids - there is just no services in the CBD for them. It's just poor town planning.

 

[KissKiss]

I suspect you'll be in the minority in this case though. I had mates living in one of the high rises on Southbank, who's recently moved out when they've had kids - there is just no services in the CBD for them. It's just poor town planning.

Yep one of the big problems was the lack of things like schools. If they had got one in there a lot more families would live/stay in the area and it would improve naturally over time.

You can definitely see the same mistakes happening in Fisherman's Bend right now. People like Guy stuffed so many things up.

 

[Rouel_14]

I attended 3 games at Etihad this year, and the atmosphere of the ground and all the areas around it was fantastic every time.

Albeit they were the 3 biggest drawing games of the year in Maddies match, Richmond vs north and Essendon and North.

The station was a buzz, a sea of supporters heading to the ground over the bridge and the pubs up that end of the CBD packed.

The answer isn't moving a stadium, it's filling the stadium


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TedDougChris]

Yep one of the big problems was the lack of things like schools. If they had got one in there a lot more families would live/stay in the area and it would improve naturally over time.

You can definitely see the same mistakes happening in Fisherman's Bend right now. People like Guy stuffed so many things up.

Someone previously mentioned schools etc and it's a really good point. But parklands, playgrounds etc - as well as affordable housing for all family types would have been good as well - not just high rise.

The same infrastructure/planning issues happen with all new developments - where are the facilities, how do we get people in and out, where are they working, how will they commute, where will people go. It's just shit town planning and development.

Not all development on the fringes of the city should be 150m plus towers.....

 

[donbooger]

Its pitchfork and torch time if they want to use my tax dollars to do a silly things like this.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Its pitchfork and torch time if they want to use my tax dollars to do a silly things like this.

It's a private stadium, no tax dollars involved

 

[KissKiss]

Someone previously mentioned schools etc and it's a really good point. But parklands, playgrounds etc - as well as affordable housing for all family types would have been good as well - not just high rise.

The same infrastructure/planning issues happen with all new developments - where are the facilities, how do we get people in and out, where are they working, how will they commute, where will people go. It's just shit town planning and development.

Not all development on the fringes of the city should be 150m plus towers.....

Yep schools can just be the shortcut for grounds and playgrounds but all are important to make a viable place to live.

They also stuffed up with how the trams get around the area as well. I haven't done it in a while but I tried to get the tram to the Icehouse and it just took way too long. Seems a stupidly long route instead of actually going past Southern Cross.

Yep Melbourne has had a big problem with building only towers or expanding the Urban Growth boundary way too far to build low density estates. Medium density in fill has been ignored or blocked way too much. Let alone letting councils put those zones in.

Sigh so much stupid short term and selfish thinking has happened in Melbourne

 

[TommyVercetti]

I wonder if it would be feasible to put a massive platform over the train tracks like they did with Fed Square and built some sort of park there.

The location is perfect, everything you'd want in a stadium. Close to public transport, close to the heart of the city. Great for fans from the West.

 

[Back One Out]

Problem is he's not alone in saying Etihad's future is grim. That stadium is sitting on very, very expensive land, and if in a few years someone offers the AFL squillions to sell it, what will happen?

 

[TedDougChris]

I wonder if it would be feasible to put a massive platform over the train tracks like they did with Fed Square and built some sort of park there.

The location is perfect, everything you'd want in a stadium. Close to public transport, close to the heart of the city. Great for fans from the West.

I believe one of the major cities in Germany is looking at something like this over part if their freeway network leading into the city.

 

[footyfan1978]

the biggest stuff up was building the stadium the wrong way around

This!!!!!
Bulldoze it.

 

[GreekLunatic]

replace doyle with john so at least he was a popular mayor

 

[Bombermania]

Yep one of the big problems was the lack of things like schools. If they had got one in there a lot more families would live/stay in the area and it would improve naturally over time.

You can definitely see the same mistakes happening in Fisherman's Bend right now. People like Guy stuffed so many things up.

The lack of schools occurred as the town planners or developers were aiming Docklands at single high income professional types, over time its become increasingly clear that they were not that attractive to those types who were already well serviced by Southbank, South Yarra and Brunswick etc.

 

[cats2rise]

The lack of schools occurred as the town planners or developers were aiming Docklands at single high income professional types, over time its become increasingly clear that they were not that attractive to those types who were already well serviced by Southbank, South Yarra and Brunswick etc.

Developers. Town Planners did not have much to do with it, unfortunately. Another reason why City of Melbourne jumps up and down about it.

 

[Richo83]

Planners/designers/architects had the foresight to note that Yarrabank Road (now the southgate area) was north facing, and accessibility/mobility and interaction with the waterfront was the key to a successful regeneration project. It grew organically - planners and designers knew it had the orientation and location to work, and did not need to push it - whereas at Docklands, this was not the case.

It was then noted that this area, due to the planning of the north-facing interactive area, was the 'right' place for a casino after initial renewal steps had taken place.

Local Government at the time wanted to have the now southbank river walk a grassed area, and had to have their arm twisted that this was a horrible idea as the amount of foot traffic would not let the grass grow, and it would turn into a slushpit in winter.

Evan Walker - planning minister at the time - did a great job regarding southbank. He knew what the go was. Matthew Guy is a plonker, and not a planner, and Fishermans Bend is already a mess without even starting. That could be a potential new area for a stadium too?

Problem is now, instead of the government and/or afl buying up land at industrial prices for all sporting, educational and community facilities, they have to pay commercial prices due to the rezoning. Idiots.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/f...r-evan-walker-remembered-20150217-13gvr5.html

Can you explain the whole north versus east facing area? I would have thought that buildings in both precincts would point at a number of ways.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Its not surprising that this idea is being advocated by the developers friend and receiver of brown paper bags of cash, Cr Robert Doyle. If he or any other powers that be are truly concerned about connectivity between the CBD and the waterfront then they need to demolish the god awful blight that is the shear blank wall of the former Spencer St DFO and deck over the railway yards in the same way that Fed Square East will be at some point. Having consideration for Bourke street carrying over the railway lines when Spencer St station was redeveloped in the same way that Collins St does allowing for trams to to carry people to the edge of the Docklands would help with connectivity between the two precincts immeasurably.

I'll never understand why they didn't continue the main axis westerly axis of the Hoddle's grid when they had a blank canvas to work with 20 years ago. I suspect that it probably had something to do with successive Governments through the Vic Urban/Places Victoria preferring to have a hands off approach to development at Docklands and pretty much handing it over to the money orientated private sector, who aren't particularly interested in the infrastructure/amenity needs of prospective buyers of their stacked shoe boxes that these days are more often than not masquerading as short stay or International student squats as they are for full time residents.

The stadiums location is the least of Docklands problems.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

For a bit of a visual guide. Docklands is bordered by the yellow lines.

It’s an enormous cockup. What needed to happen was for the CBD to be more naturally extended down to the waterfront. That would involve sinking the train lines redeveloping everything along what is now Harbour Blvd, to create a destination. As it stands, the trains and Etihad are one enormous obstacle that are very difficult and time consuming to traverse. Lonsdale St etc should be able to extend all the way to the water to create new city blocks. Can’t happen with the stadium there.

Even if it was placed further south-east between the river and the harbour, it wouldn’t have been such a game stopper. Still reasonably close to the train station. It could have been orientated correctly too.

 

[KissKiss]

I believe one of the major cities in Germany is looking at something like this over part if their freeway network leading into the city.

Many cities are looking at doing this sort of thing and it really improves the city. One of my German friends at work advocates that any city of a certain population (not much more than a few 100k) should look at starting to bury their trams. He won't accept that Melbourne is the world's most liveable city while we have so much potential land wasted (and causing further issues) by not building over our tram and tramlines. Especially in areas like Southern Cross and Fed Square East.

The lack of schools occurred as the town planners or developers were aiming Docklands at single high income professional types, over time its become increasingly clear that they were not that attractive to those types who were already well serviced by Southbank, South Yarra and Brunswick etc.

Again it was very short term thinking. They already had those options in the areas that you suggested, but didn't consider what happens when those individuals invariably get married and have kids.

 

[cats2rise]

Can you explain the whole north versus east facing area? I would have thought that buildings in both precincts would point at a number of ways.

If something is predominantly north facing (ie has a longer east-west boundary), it has more natural light. Houses work best for various reasons if they are north facing, and the private open space (backyards, balconies etc) are best when they are also north facing as they receive the most amount of natural light.

When things have a longer north-south axis (therefore east or west facing), they cop sunrise and sunset so are hotter in summer (direct sunlight) and colder in winter (not as much sun constantly on the building as one half of the building only gets light at one time.)

Southbank is north facing (a long east-west axis) therefore in winter it gets all the sun to create a warm atmosphere, and does not caste shadows on itself.

Etihad Stadium is east/west facing (longer in a north/south direction) therefore the grass gets less light than what it would if it was north facing as it overshadows itself.

Any planning/development should have as much north facing areas as possible, as mentioned in any council planning scheme at a state policy level, local policy level and relevant clauses that allow/restrict development.