Coach Fages and the coaching group

[3KZ is Football]

With the greatest respect - Bernie & Joe are chalk and cheese

They are aren’t they. If only Joe could be more like Bernie.

 

[western royboy]

They are aren’t they. If only Joe could be more like Bernie.

Bernie in the modern game…I shudder to think - he was my favourite he was a freak - a ruck rover that ended up being our key forward due to that dodgy Achilles.

Danced around opponents like they were statues.

When I played at Balwyn we were coached by ex Fitzroy tough man Brett Grimley.

“Grimmers” was a hard man - didn’t play many games but when he did you walked a bit taller. Got Bernie down to training for us one night - it was about 10 years since I’d seen him up close as he played in a practice match at Mortlake in about 1984 (kicked 10 before half time against the Hawks - who were the reigning premier)

He looked like he could have still been playing

 

[M Malice]

I'd rather the best coach to be honest. We've seen the best coaches do wonders with a group of "good enough" players, but teams with plenty of stars stumble time and time again.

Like 4 time Premiership coach Alistair Clarkson at the Kangaroos?

The best coach of all time couldn't turn a bunch of ordinary to middling players into silk purses.

 

[MSB ROYS]

Leigh Matthews was able to get Collingwood to win easily in 1990 after so many close GF loses, was able to coach the Lions to 3 in a row and knew when to quit before he was a dinosaur.

 

[irel]

Like 4 time Premiership coach Alistair Clarkson at the Kangaroos?

The best coach of all time couldn't turn a bunch of ordinary to middling players into silk purses.

In six months? How long did it take him at Hawthorn?

 

[briztoon]

Like 4 time Premiership coach Alistair Clarkson at the Kangaroos?

The best coach of all time couldn't turn a bunch of ordinary to middling players into silk purses.

I put this more on the Kangaroos list management team. To in love with mids and half forwards, and won’t trade back to balance list needs.

 

[M Malice]

In six months? How long did it take him at Hawthorn?

Did you miss the wink irel?

 

[irel]

Did you miss the wink irel?

 

[rye]

I put this more on the Kangaroos list management team. To in love with mids and half forwards, and won’t trade back to balance list needs.

their game plan is terrible

 

[dlanod]

Like 4 time Premiership coach Alistair Clarkson at the Kangaroos?

The best coach of all time couldn't turn a bunch of ordinary to middling players into silk purses.

Except I wouldn't put the Roos anywhere near "good enough".

Hardwick won three premierships at Richmond with a fair group of players, but they definitely weren't full of stars compared to, say, the Hawthorn teams or Geelong at times. Same with the Swans in 2012. By comparison St Kilda had some of the strongest teams I can recall with up to 10 elite players (depending on how you're counting) but never won a grand final. Not to mention the best player in the last few decades couldn't even get a team into the finals (hi Gary).

I'd suggest just about any of the top six in most years have a list capable of winning a flag with the right coaching and the right game plan.

 

[martinson]

I agree that it's possible for a coach to mismanage and underperform with a good team.

But in the end a good/great list of players can make an average coach a great one and a good/great coach won't get anywhere with a poor list of players.

As far as teams of comparable talent go obviously the coaching becomes more pivotal.

 

[Viceregal]

A coach may not be able to affect the match on match day but surely the training that teaches the whole squad how to various things when other stuff happens is part of their remit.

I remember watching us play against a few sides where they were kicking the ball blindly out of congestion and evey time it went straight to one of their players (coincidentally when we kicked blindly it normally went to one of their players as well! ) like they knew where their mates would be and what they were doing ... I don't remember having that feeling with our mob...

A coach maybe cannot teach individual brilliance but they can teach team structure and tactics and collegiate expectations and ensure that the ones who don't buy in to the team are not playing or managed around and in doing so can give the players a toolbox they can use when things are going pear shaped ... or even when the opposition is flooding/run and gunning/defending a lead etc...

 

[Section 5]

Joe has got nobody to blame but himself after spending all of 2021 carrying on like a circus clown and having the umps fall for his act hook, line, and sinker. As far as they are concerned, it's "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me".

And quite frankly I can't say I blame them. This is a bed Joe has made for himself, all by himself. And the only way he can get out of it now is to completely eradicate any playing for free kicks from his game, and hope that, at some stage, he starts getting the odd one paid his way.

In meantime I shan't be holding my breath.

A lot to love and hate about Jo and this is in the hate bracket.
It is something so easily fixed and for the life of me i don't know what his line of thinking is, or his coaches are saying to him.
One thing for certain he won't be reading anything on BF.

 

[Happy_Neale]

I'd rather the best coach to be honest. We've seen the best coaches do wonders with a group of "good enough" players, but teams with plenty of stars stumble time and time again.

I think that’s looking at it backwards, part of being a great player is the ability to perform within a team unit IMO, sure some teams with less talent can win at times but I think that’s less down to coaching and more the ability of the players to form a cohesive unit

 

[Elixuh]

I'd rather the best coach to be honest. We've seen the best coaches do wonders with a group of "good enough" players, but teams with plenty of stars stumble time and time again.

Melbourne is the best example of both things, kinda.

I don’t think anyone has ever suggested degenerate Goodie is a great coach. That 2021 flag team was just filled with guns from behind the ball into the middle. Most average coaches could have won with that side IMO.

But look at what’s happened since. Arguably degenerate Goodie has wasted one of the best lists in the comp.

 

[M Malice]

A coach may not be able to affect the match on match day but surely the training that teaches the whole squad how to various things when other stuff happens is part of their remit.

I remember watching us play against a few sides where they were kicking the ball blindly out of congestion and evey time it went straight to one of their players (coincidentally when we kicked blindly it normally went to one of their players as well! ) like they knew where their mates would be and what they were doing ... I don't remember having that feeling with our mob...

A coach maybe cannot teach individual brilliance but they can teach team structure and tactics and collegiate expectations and ensure that the ones who don't buy in to the team are not playing or managed around and in doing so can give the players a toolbox they can use when things are going pear shaped ... or even when the opposition is flooding/run and gunning/defending a lead etc...

Chris Fagan has done a pretty decent job since 2017 setting up a very competitive game structure and tactics, we have been in the top 3-4 teams for most of that time.

Maybe it is as simple as the teams that won the Grand Finals over that time have just been more talented than us.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I'd rather the best coach to be honest. We've seen the best coaches do wonders with a group of "good enough" players, but teams with plenty of stars stumble time and time again.

But sometimes they don't. I don't think Beveridge, Simpson or Goodwin are amazing coaches but they all won premierships. But I think it's fair to say that if you want to win multiple premierships you need a very good coach.

 

[Gadzorks]

Chris Fagan has done a pretty decent job since 2017 setting up a very competitive game structure and tactics, we have been in the top 3-4 teams for most of that time.

Maybe it is as simple as the teams that won the Grand Finals over that time have just been more talented than us.

One less free in last year's gf, or Charlie getting a goal instead of a behind and the fagan bashers would be lauding his capability.

He's EXACTLY THE SAME PERSON.

Yes we have problems. Yes some of his choices haven't worked out (love dizzy but he is not a forward), but the fagan write off is insane.

 

[Kickback Flip]

I think we have a very talented Team, but we rarely ever play four consistent quarters and we are mentally soft. To me that is for the coach to rectify. If he can't fix these problems, he should be thanked wholeheartedly for all his work and moved on at the end of the year.

 

[Strato]

I think we have a very talented Team, but we rarely ever play four consistent quarters and we are mentally soft. To me that is for the coach to rectify. If he can't fix these problems, he should be thanked wholeheartedly for all his work and moved on at the end of the year.

Or before the end of the year.

 

[3KZ is Football]

I think we have a very talented Team, but we rarely ever play four consistent quarters and we are mentally soft. To me that is for the coach to rectify. If he can't fix these problems, he should be thanked wholeheartedly for all his work and moved on at the end of the year.

Fagan has introduced the Traditional In-Game Nap Time #TINT

 

[M Malice]

Just had a quick scan through the Port Adelaide board sack Hinkley thread, gee there is some vitriol on there.

Hopefully we don't get that far down in the gutter re Chris Fagan.

 

[western royboy]

Just had a quick scan through the Port Adelaide board sack Hinkley thread, gee there is some vitriol on there.

Hopefully we don't get that far down in the gutter re Chris Fagan.

Volume 10 of said thread

 

[RoyBoy17]

We won’t be moving Fagan on. Even if we have a poor year next year. I reckon he will see out his current contract and then take on a role with Tasmania.

 

[Dalions]

I quite like Kane to be honest but he's had a bit of a swing and a miss here. Basic synopsis of the conversation (which started on the weekend on SEN)

Kane: Their effort was no good

Caro: Why was it no good?

Kane: That's what we want to hear from Fagan but he's got no idea

Caro: So if you think it's so obvious, you tell us what you think happened

Kane: Caro it's so obvious: their effort was no good.

Fagan is not inside their heads.
And, damn sure he didn’t ask them to drop off in intensity and effort, so what is he supposed to say, other than they mentally checked out of the game when things got hard.