Coach Fages and the coaching group

[Section 5]

To be fair Sharp came on and made 3 crucial mistakes all in the last quarter that cost goals. He didn't look like a player that should have been out there.

But he also looked like he was trying to do too much to make an impact as the sub too which maybe wouldn't of been the case had he started early.

I usually don't care who the sub is as they rarely make a difference to the end result.
Just another player available for rotations that usually is struggling to be best 22.
However, because of the role of sitting idle usually for 3/4 of a game an experienced player over youth would be my choice.
I would class experienced as 50 plus AFL games or 3 years minimum in the system.
So, this is the list of players i would choose a sub from each week. Including a few regulars people will disagree on.

50 Plus AFL games: Lyons, Ah-Chee, Answerth.
3 years + in AFL system: Fort, Joyce, Madden, Carter Michael, Prior, Dev Robertson, Sharp, Smith,

 

[Viceregal]

You can do worse than Hinkley, but he wouldn't want to move up here and his recent finals record is worse than ours.

If we got Josh Carr and left them with Hinkley the melts on the Port board would be epic

 

[CarterS]

based on observations, I have not looked at stats, Charlie's set shot kicking is problematic. Almost every game we score more behinds then goals.

Stats show we are the most inaccurate team in the comp this year. Kicking 26.7 vs Richmond may have changed that not sure.

 

[GEEitLONG]

Just thinking of Fagans stressless press conference despite a potentially season ending loss, lack of media scruitany, media hysterics, and lack of them going after Fagan and Brisbane..;

Fages wasn't in the least upset of the loss at the press conference last night. Certainly not the stress and disappointment we've seen from him earlier this year and last year. He didnt get the hard questions he normally would receive when a team has potentially lost their year. Which makes me wonder..

What if, as i suspect, Fagans fate was sealed weeks ago and he has already been advised this is his last year? Only those that need to know would be advised; Lions, AFL execs, and top media execs. Hence the media laying off him and his much less stressed interviews? King discussing alternative coaches, and all and sundry seemingly accepting this year being his last, despite him 'being a great bloke and having done a good job'.

Are the Lions actively looking for a coach already? Is that what Kingy is pandering to? Has he got a sniff of what may have transpired behind closed doors? Suggesting last night Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

48

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

for the job, Kingy 2 weeks ago suggested Luke Beverage as well. Something's up. Hes an astute observer.

I suspect Fages has got the nudge already.

 

[McIvor]

I've actually wondered about that ever since he said it.

Seemed an odd thing to say after Round 1 when he's virtually straight batted every question he's ever been asked in his whole career prior.

Water under the bridge now. The pertinent question is where are we at now and what can we do about it. With an eye on 2025. But if we don't get the desire for the contest back in 2024 it won't be coming back in 2025 without significant change in the coaching and playing group.

I’m not a huge fan of Gerard Wheatley but when him and King were discussing Brisbane earlier he basically implored the club to forget about seventh or scraping into the finals and just try new things and players and set ourselves for round one 2025. In addition, he said we should challenge ourselves to just go all out offensive and see what happens given we’re a very good at that and not worry about the results.

He actually surprised me in that he wasn’t overly critical but his idea that we should forget about finals and just use this back half to experiment and get ready for next year actually resonated. Doubt Fagan would agree given his comments that we’ll do a Carlton and GWS of 23.

 

[Elixuh]

Just thinking of Fagans stressless press conference despite a potentially season ending loss, lack of media scruitany, media hysterics, and lack of them going after Fagan and Brisbane..;

Fages wasn't in the least upset of the loss at the press conference last night. Certainly not the stress and disappointment we've seen from him earlier this year and last year. He didnt get the hard questions he normally would receive when a team has potentially lost their year. Which makes me wonder..

What if, as i suspect, Fagans fate was sealed weeks ago and he has already been advised this is his last year? Only those that need to know would be advised; Lions, AFL execs, and top media execs. Hence the media laying off him and his much less stressed interviews? King discussing alternative coaches, and all and sundry seemingly accepting this year being his last should be his fate despite him 'being a great bloke and having done a good job'.

Are the Lions actively looking for a coach already? Is that what Kingy is pandering to? Has he got a sniff of what may have transpired behind closed doors? Suggesting last night Chris Scott for the job, Kingy 2 weeks ago suggested Luke Beverage as well. Something's up. Hes an astute observer.

I suspect Fages has got the nudge already. I could be wrong?

 

[mpal6]

I’m not a huge fan of Gerard Wheatley but when him and King were discussing Brisbane earlier he basically implored the club to forget about seventh or scraping into the finals and just try new things and players and set ourselves for round one 2025. In addition, he said we should challenge ourselves to just go all out offensive and see what happens given we’re a very good at that and not worry about the results.

He actually surprised me in that he wasn’t overly critical but his idea that we should forget about finals and just use this back half to experiment and get ready for next year actually resonated. Doubt Fagan would agree given his comments that we’ll do a Carlton and GWS of 23.

I agree with this approach, we need to try something new/different and keeping at it in the same way isn't going to benefit anyone. Of course it'll make things uncomfortable for a few who don't suit new game plans or changes, but coach needs to do what's best for the club long term.

 

[briztoon]

Why should being the fittest mean he can't be the sub?

Maybe even if it's not using his main strength which is his fitness he's still the best choice

That’s questionable, as many here would have Brain as a better player and choice.

Probably better to play Sharp the whole game, and pick Bruce Reville as the sub.

What Jivlain was saying goes beyond who is the best sub option, it goes to team balance and selection.

 

[Nathan Barley]

That’s questionable, as many here would have Brain as a better player and choice.

Probably better to play Sharp the whole game, and pick Bruce Reville as the sub.

What Jivlain was saying goes beyond who is the best sub option, it goes to team balance and selection.

A couple of probablys and maybes between our posts

It's not an exact science team selection but in hindsight it's pretty easy

 

[CarterS]

Doubt Fagan would agree given his comments that we’ll do a Carlton and GWS of 23.

Given how inconsistent the team has been he seems very confident that we will suddenly turn it around and win ten in a row.

 

[McIvor]

Given how inconsistent the team has been he seems very confident that we will suddenly turn it around and win ten in a row.

It blows my mind that he could remotely think that or think Lions supporters are such dead beats that we’ll lap up such garbage based on everything we’ve seen this year. One good win; that’s it and beat up on Kangaroos and Tigers and the Suns. Yep, plenty of reason that we’re about to go on a tear in the back half of the season. Excuse my sarcasm

 

[Squizz89]

One thing Fages has always been is very loyal and protective of his players. With where the club was at, it was what was needed from whoever we got to replace Leppa at the time. It would be very hard to change that in a person even if it could end up costing someone their job.

 

[martinson]

Firstly there's zero chance of us giving Fagan the nudge as has been suggested imo.

Secondly we've beaten Melbourne ,North ,Richmond and the Suns managing to draw with Adelaide. Two of those were home games against very poor opposition on the day. So whichever way you look at it we've fallen off a cliff so far this year and as long as we recognise that we can plot the best way back into 2025.

 

[Happy_Neale]

Really feels like a losers attitude to basically tank the second half of the season to get picks for Levi and/or "play da kids"

Would be different if we were coming out of a rebuild but we are still a good team who can go on a run if we get it together, as unlikely as it seems at the moment. I'd be pretty annoyed as a supporter if the coaches weren't still trying to win at all costs for the rest of the year

 

[SpecialBruce]

Rayner was the main one affected - pretty obvious

Nah. Rayner is just shit.

 

[SpecialBruce]

You don't think he'll go home as the inaugural Tassie coach?

He will definitely have a role with that team. Most likely coach

 

[Tom14]

Stats show we are the most inaccurate team in the comp this year. Kicking 26.7 vs Richmond may have changed that not sure.

Briefly put us up to 17th on expected score for. Don't know if we are back to 18th after the weekend.

 

[Tom14]

Really feels like a losers attitude to basically tank the second half of the season to get picks for Levi and/or "play da kids"

Would be different if we were coming out of a rebuild but we are still a good team who can go on a run if we get it together, as unlikely as it seems at the moment. I'd be pretty annoyed as a supporter if the coaches weren't still trying to win at all costs for the rest of the year

Also, no point to tanking. We aren't bad enough to finish below at minimum North, Richmond and West Coast, and very likely the Saints too. If all we end up with is pick 5/6 which we have to trade away anyway because of Levi, what's the point?

I'll differ slightly on the 'play da kids' though - I don't want us to just pick them willy nilly, but I do want us to experiment. Can we get a different midfield mix in there?

What does fletcher look like as an inside mid for say 5 CBAs a game?

If we give Berry an extended run, is he worth keeping as part of the rotation next year?

Can we try change up our ball movement somewhat? It was sad to see how easily it was blocked off by the hawks, and how afraid we were of bold kicks.

Zorko has been good but yesterday was bad zork of 2022 - too focused on niggle and how unjust every umpire is towards him, not focused on performance. Wouldn't mind resting him for the trip to perth if we are pretty much out of contention and seeing how Shadeau goes for a full game.

If/when we aren't a realistic shot to make finals then I want to see us use the year for something. Port tried out a different gamestyle in 2022 when they started poorly and helped paper over their defensive issues more for 2023. No reason we can't try do the same.

I'm not saying don't try to win or drop players purely on age - but consider a wider range of options for selection and for strategy, and accept the risk that it might not be best for wins in 2023.

 

[Happy_Neale]

Also, no point to tanking. We aren't bad enough to finish below at minimum North, Richmond and West Coast, and very likely the Saints too. If all we end up with is pick 5/6 which we have to trade away anyway because of Levi, what's the point?

I'll differ slightly on the 'play da kids' though - I don't want us to just pick them willy nilly, but I do want us to experiment. Can we get a different midfield mix in there?

What does fletcher look like as an inside mid for say 5 CBAs a game?

If we give Berry an extended run, is he worth keeping as part of the rotation next year?

Can we try change up our ball movement somewhat? It was sad to see how easily it was blocked off by the hawks, and how afraid we were of bold kicks.

Zorko has been good but yesterday was bad zork of 2022 - too focused on niggle and how unjust every umpire is towards him, not focused on performance. Wouldn't mind resting him for the trip to perth if we are pretty much out of contention and seeing how Shadeau goes for a full game.

If/when we aren't a realistic shot to make finals then I want to see us use the year for something. Port tried out a different gamestyle in 2022 when they started poorly and helped paper over their defensive issues more for 2023. No reason we can't try do the same.

I'm not saying don't try to win or drop players purely on age - but consider a wider range of options for selection and for strategy, and accept the risk that it might not be best for wins in 2023.

Absolutely there is a difference between trying a few new things and rashly dropping guys simply to play kids, I think we have experimented quite a bit over the past few weeks (by our standards) and there has probably been a number of other changes that have happened that have gone unnoticed or that we are not privy to. Not sure how many others we could potentially bring in due to form/injuries - Torrent maybe? Plus find out some more about guys like Tunstill I guess.

We've always been a second half of the year team under Fagan and I would hope that continues this year

 

[Lazza16]

History suggests coaches don't take teams to premierships if it doesn't happen in the first 6-7 years or so. I would suggest the stats would be even worse throwing in a down year heading into your 9th season in charge. Wouldn't it be worth a shot, while the list is still in a great position age wise to look at something different?

Hardwick?

 

[Lazza16]

Also, no point to tanking. We aren't bad enough to finish below at minimum North, Richmond and West Coast, and very likely the Saints too. If all we end up with is pick 5/6 which we have to trade away anyway because of Levi, what's the point?

I'll differ slightly on the 'play da kids' though - I don't want us to just pick them willy nilly, but I do want us to experiment. Can we get a different midfield mix in there?

What does fletcher look like as an inside mid for say 5 CBAs a game?

If we give Berry an extended run, is he worth keeping as part of the rotation next year?

Can we try change up our ball movement somewhat? It was sad to see how easily it was blocked off by the hawks, and how afraid we were of bold kicks.

Zorko has been good but yesterday was bad zork of 2022 - too focused on niggle and how unjust every umpire is towards him, not focused on performance. Wouldn't mind resting him for the trip to perth if we are pretty much out of contention and seeing how Shadeau goes for a full game.

If/when we aren't a realistic shot to make finals then I want to see us use the year for something. Port tried out a different gamestyle in 2022 when they started poorly and helped paper over their defensive issues more for 2023. No reason we can't try do the same.

I'm not saying don't try to win or drop players purely on age - but consider a wider range of options for selection and for strategy, and accept the risk that it might not be best for wins in 2023.

Neale is clearly not ok...could do with a break.

 

[Happy_Neale]

Hardwick?

Bomber Thompson took 7 years as well. Two of the best coaches of the last 30 years. Mick Malthouse took 10 years with Collingwood before breaking through in 2010.

 

[Lazza16]

So that’s all it was.

We didn’t look like it from the moment we ran out. We’d obviously checked out before then and had already cast our minds to the mid season break. It’s happened EVERY time. That is on the coaches. I guess you could say the same that when we’ve won it had nothing to do with Fages either?

The mere fact a spud like Gunston can kick four on us goes to show how arrogant we were heading into this one and had obviously mentally checked out like they do practically every game before a bye. Again that’s on the coaches that that had not been addressed.

Perhaps

So that’s all it was.

We didn’t look like it from the moment we ran out. We’d obviously checked out before then and had already cast our minds to the mid season break. It’s happened EVERY time. That is on the coaches. I guess you could say the same that when we’ve won it had nothing to do with Fages either?

The mere fact a spud like Gunston can kick four on us goes to show how arrogant we were heading into this one and had obviously mentally checked out like they do practically every game before a bye. Again that’s on the coaches that that had not been addressed.

Perhaps it was the Greek baths?

 

[Gadzorks]

Well, it's something we should be trying to iron out in training through practice. If we're trying that and it isn't working, then I agree it isn't the coaches fault. But if we're not trying that, it's a problem.

Do you seriously behove they aren't practising and trying to fix?

I mean, it's not like they are professionals who have high expectations of themselves right? They only do what the coach says and never say hey I want to improve any fact of their game.

Sheesh.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Do you seriously behove they aren't practising and trying to fix?

I mean, it's not like they are professionals who have high expectations of themselves right? They only do what the coach says and never say hey I want to improve any fact of their game.

Sheesh.

Do you attend training regularly to see how much they're practising set shots and from what angles?