Politics Fascist takeover US 2025.

[captain blood 17]

Not intentional…. So you are saying that Elon’s default setting is fascist/nazi?

Don't know, do you? He seems a complicated Nazi.

 

[captain blood 17]

If what Elon did was intentionally symbolic.
Do you think that's bad, and if so, why?


There is a reason you cannot engage and respond to this.
You know the optics are bad, what it represents are bad. But you don't understand why...

It's why you all jump to any similar imagery. Ignoring the intent.

I have already responded numerous times through the thread. As you don't want to do what I asked. Here's a quote. Enjoy.

What's interesting is nowhere have I said nazis are cool or the salute a great thing. All I have said is I don't think it meant what others think it means. That's the reality of the conversation. Where it takes a turn (which is on a few here and some seemed to want to get a little personal) is that by me saying I don't think it was what it was, everyone straight away moves to an assumption that because of that opinion "oh, you're down with nazis". Not at all. But, carry on gentlemen.

 

[kranky al]

Yep. One side - Elon is a nazi. Other side- these guys did the same thing.
Both sides - but you’re wrong i’m right. We could argue for a year and it will go nowhere.

You keep ignoring this:

Elon musk openly backs the German neo Nazi party.

Quote “Only AfD can save Germany, end of story, and people really need to get behind AfD, and otherwise things are going to get very, very much worse in Germany,” Musk said during an audio livestream alongside party co-leader Alice Weidel on X.”

At some stage if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - you call it a duck.

 

[CM86]

I have already responded numerous times through the thread. As you don't want to do what I asked. Here's a quote. Enjoy.

I'm asking you a hypothetical.

IF.

​

If what Elon did was intentionally symbolic.​

Do you think that's bad, and if so, why?​

I won't ask again, because it's clear you cannot engage with it. For obvious reasons.

 

[captain blood 17]

You keep ignoring this:

Elon musk openly backs the German neo Nazi party.

Quote “Only AfD can save Germany, end of story, and people really need to get behind AfD, and otherwise things are going to get very, very much worse in Germany,” Musk said during an audio livestream alongside party co-leader Alice Weidel on X.”

At some stage if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - you call it a duck.

He's a complicated Nazi.

 

[captain blood 17]

I'm asking you a hypothetical.

IF.

​

If what Elon did was intentionally symbolic.​

Do you think that's bad, and if so, why?​

I won't ask again, because it's clear you cannot engage with it. For obvious reasons.

What if it isn't though. What then?

 

[captain blood 17]

So he's a German loving Nazi who supplied aid to Jewish hospitals. Hmmm

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-okays-use-of-elon-musks-starlink-including-at-gaza-medical-facilities/

 

[CM86]

What if it isn't though. What then?

Easy.

If it isn't then it isn't bad, and this is all overblown.
It sucks that it's been received by far right extremists as a sign of support and encouragement. But it isn't a negative reflection on Musk, and the attacks are unfair.

I said I wouldn't ask again, but I'll try one more time.

Your turn.

If what Elon did was intentionally symbolic.​

Do you think that's bad, and if so, why?​

 

[captain blood 17]

Easy.

If it isn't then it isn't bad, and this is all overblown.
It sucks that it's been received by far right extremists as a sign of support and encouragement. But it isn't a negative reflection on Musk, and the attacks are unfair.

And I said I wouldn't ask again, but I'll try one more time.

Your turn.

If what Elon did was intentionally symbolic.​

Do you think that's bad, and if so, why?​

Well, if it was intentionally symbolic then it's very bad as he has influence not only (possibly) the worlds largest social media platform and he is now influencing government. So it can obviously lead to race related violence in society. Much like what is happening to the Jewish community here in Australia with the current pro Hamas and Palestine protests. I hope Albo and the state premiers can get a handle on that as well.

 

[faible]

So he's a German loving Nazi who supplied aid to Jewish hospitals. Hmmm

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-okays-use-of-elon-musks-starlink-including-at-gaza-medical-facilities/

Your take on fascism is deeply wrong, but cute that you think you're intelligent enough to try.

 

[CM86]

Well, if it was intentionally symbolic then it's very bad as he has influence not only (possibly) the worlds largest social media platform and he is now influencing government. So it can obviously lead to race related violence in society. Much like what is happening to the Jewish community here in Australia with the current pro Hamas and Palestine protests. I hope Albo and the state premiers can get a handle on that as well.

That's the richest man in the world.
Who owns one of the largest social media platforms in the world.
Who is standing alongside arguably the most powerful man in the world.
Who in turn just reimplemented Schedule F. Removing all safeguards from civil servants, which were the only thing that stopped him in his last term in office.


There is no confusion from the far-right and extremists as to what Musk did.
Same with the 'stand back and stand by'.
Same with the "We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore," on Jan 6.


We can debate Musk's intention forever, while ignoring the impact.
I don't believe anyone would do that, to that crowd, then turn and do it again, without knowing what was behind it.
That's not love on his face.

Based on who Musk is, his wealth, his platforms and his connections.
What do you think the impact could be, regardless of his intent?


And how much 'fun' have you had with the 'finger pointing' in regards to antisemitism here in Australia?

 

[captain blood 17]

Based on who Musk is, his wealth, his platforms and his connections.
What do you think the impact could be, regardless of his intent?


And how much 'fun' have you had with the 'finger pointing' in regards to antisemitism here in Australia?

Well to be honest, we won't know as the new administration has only just come in. There's a concern for example around NASA I reckon. Does Elon have influence to push that aside to increase his wealth and ambition as he's the guy wanting to go to Mars. So to answer the question, I don't know where this leads to. I don't have a crystal ball.

And on the local issues, the federal and state governments need to get a handle on the violence. It's terrible.

 

[captain blood 17]

Your take on fascism is deeply wrong, but cute that you think you're intelligent enough to try.

What part of the article is incorrect. Do you reckon it's unusual a nazi would help the jewish community out?

 

[faible]

What part of the article is incorrect. Do you reckon it's unusual a nazi would help the jewish community out?

(modern far-right supremacy looks different to the 1920s)

 

[captain blood 17]

(modern far-right supremacy looks different to the 1920s)

That's true. When you look at the law fare against certain political opponents, weaponisation of law enforcement bodies etc. It really does.

 

[faible]

That's true. When you look at the law fare against certain political opponents, weaponisation of law enforcement bodies etc. It really does.

Yes, the poor persecuted life-long criminal Donald.

 

[kranky al]

He's a complicated Nazi.

You do realise that Nazis can change who they hate right?

Bit like one nation hated asians in the 90’s and now have Asian candidates who hate on muslims now.

 

[Gethelred]

I thought we were having a healthy debate. But I can see that I’m on borrowed time here. I’ve endeavoured to post rationally.

Obviously you disagree with the views I’ve posted and you’re the one with the big stick so there’s little point in me continuing to post here.

Quite literally, all I've done is ensure that you don't get yourself infracted for something stupid. It's up to you what you choose to do here - and I'm more than happy to get into the "it's complicated" of it all, but perhaps not in this thread - but if this is your first rodeo you deserve not to wander into open traffic.

And if this isn't to our liking, you agreed to abide by site rules when you joined up.

 

[plays tall 1]

Quite literally, all I've done is ensure that you don't get yourself infracted for something stupid. It's up to you what you choose to do here - and I'm more than happy to get into the "it's complicated" of it all, but perhaps not in this thread - but if this is your first rodeo you deserve not to wander into open traffic.

And if this isn't to our liking, you agreed to abide by site rules when you joined up.

I have no problem abiding by the rules of Bigfooty. But different boards have different rules and different moderators. If I don’t like the rules of a board, or the way moderators interpret or enforce them, then there’s little point posting.

I fail to see how I’ve come close to breaching any rules. I have asked other posters to explain their views in some of my posts, yet you’ve suggested I’ve repeatedly declined to take your advice and ask others what they think and why.

I posted the link with the Nazi’s 25 point plan previously. You didn’t address it. What do you think of that plan, specifically points 10,11,13,16,17 and 19. Does it sound like a capitalist or right-wing agenda?

Do you agree that the Nazis began as a socialist party? Do you think that the Nazis were a right wing party from the outset? If so what’s the basis of your opinion?

You said I’d plainly not read quotes in material I’d posted. Which quotes were you referring to?

And just to be clear I’m not against education and learning at all. I’m all for it, it served me well in my career and life. But I do believe in fact checking on occasions. One can probably find academic support for both sides of most political discussions these days. Just because there may be a preponderance of opinion suggesting that Fascism is on the right side of the political spectrum doesn’t mean it must be factually correct. And in case you’re wondering, no I’m not an anti-vaxxer or climate sceptic.

This post is a bit TLDR but it does seem to be what you’re asking me to post.

 

[RCAB]

I have no problem abiding by the rules of Bigfooty. But different boards have different rules and different moderators. If I don’t like the rules of a board, or the way moderators interpret or enforce them, then there’s little point posting.

I fail to see how I’ve come close to breaching any rules. I have asked other posters to explain their views in some of my posts, yet you’ve suggested I’ve repeatedly declined to take your advice and ask others what they think and why.

I posted the link with the Nazi’s 25 point plan previously. You didn’t address it. What do you think of that plan, specifically points 10,11,13,16,17 and 19. Does it sound like a capitalist or right-wing agenda?

Do you agree that the Nazis began as a socialist party? Do you think that the Nazis were a right wing party from the outset? If so what’s the basis of your opinion?

You said I’d plainly not read quotes in material I’d posted. Which quotes were you referring to?

And just to be clear I’m not against education and learning at all. I’m all for it, it served me well in my career and life. But I do believe in fact checking on occasions. One can probably find academic support for both sides of most political discussions these days. Just because there may be a preponderance of opinion suggesting that Fascism is on the right side of the political spectrum doesn’t mean it must be factually correct. And in case you’re wondering, no I’m not an anti-vaxxer or climate sceptic.

This post is a bit TLDR but it does seem to be what you’re asking me to post.

I think you need to show how the Nazi Party was a socialist party from the onset—the onus is on you.

The onus rests with you due to a simple argument, which you should unfortunately be aware of: socialist rhetoric was used to win over disillusioned workers and the majority of the German population during one of the worst recessions in history, helping them sympathise with the Nazi cause.

It sounds like you’ve been hoodwinked 100 years later by someone or something.

 

[Mofra]

I have no problem abiding by the rules of Bigfooty. But different boards have different rules and different moderators. If I don’t like the rules of a board, or the way moderators interpret or enforce them, then there’s little point posting.

I fail to see how I’ve come close to breaching any rules. I have asked other posters to explain their views in some of my posts, yet you’ve suggested I’ve repeatedly declined to take your advice and ask others what they think and why.

I posted the link with the Nazi’s 25 point plan previously. You didn’t address it. What do you think of that plan, specifically points 10,11,13,16,17 and 19. Does it sound like a capitalist or right-wing agenda?

Do you agree that the Nazis began as a socialist party? Do you think that the Nazis were a right wing party from the outset? If so what’s the basis of your opinion?

You said I’d plainly not read quotes in material I’d posted. Which quotes were you referring to?

And just to be clear I’m not against education and learning at all. I’m all for it, it served me well in my career and life. But I do believe in fact checking on occasions. One can probably find academic support for both sides of most political discussions these days. Just because there may be a preponderance of opinion suggesting that Fascism is on the right side of the political spectrum doesn’t mean it must be factually correct. And in case you’re wondering, no I’m not an anti-vaxxer or climate sceptic.

This post is a bit TLDR but it does seem to be what you’re asking me to post.

Maybe read this and learn a little.

Were the Nazis Socialists? | Britannica

What’s the difference between National Socialists and every other kind of socialist?

www.britannica.com

 

[Gethelred]

I have no problem abiding by the rules of Bigfooty. But different boards have different rules and different moderators. If I don’t like the rules of a board, or the way moderators interpret or enforce them, then there’s little point posting.

I fail to see how I’ve come close to breaching any rules. I have asked other posters to explain their views in some of my posts, yet you’ve suggested I’ve repeatedly declined to take your advice and ask others what they think and why.

In your initial post, you strawmanned a position that people do not know what constitutes fascism:

These days the term “fascist” seems to be used to describe those who promote free markets and general conservatism, which is either a complete misunderstanding, or deliberate deception.

Trump is a staunch nationalist obviously, and he seems to have autocratic tendencies but he’s certainly not “fascist”.

... which is where and why I responded by providing some of the methods people use on this forum commonly to define fascism, to dismantle the strawman and demonstrate that it was incorrect.

That and this here:

You seem to be a very emotive poster and struggle with a rational discussion, instead resorting to attempts at ridicule to de-rail discussion.

... is an attempt to dismiss another poster's position, not asking someone else what they think and why they think it.

I posted the link with the Nazi’s 25 point plan previously. You didn’t address it. What do you think of that plan, specifically points 10,11,13,16,17 and 19. Does it sound like a capitalist or right-wing agenda?

In collusion with points 1-9 - detailing the nature of the nation state and the citizen as german blooded, the implied right to invade surrounding territories to "feed our people and settle our surplus population" (no.3), alienizing and expelling noncitizens - the majority of these rules are very much in line with ultranationalist or fascistic positions.

From earlier on the page, too:

The 25 points remained the Nazi Party's official statement of goals, though in later years the Nazis ignored many points.

You also have the fact that, when this was released, there were very much socialists within the ranks of the nazis, as the Program of the German Workers Party was published in 1920; this is very much how fascism operates, by parasitizing an organisation and hollowing it out until it is just them.

What socialists were left were purged in 1934, in the Night of the Long Knives.

Do you agree that the Nazis began as a socialist party? Do you think that the Nazis were a right wing party from the outset? If so what’s the basis of your opinion?

I've answered it above, methinks.

You said I’d plainly not read quotes in material I’d posted. Which quotes were you referring to?

There were a lot of links in there, so I'll give you a few examples.

From the rationalwiki link, in support of the notion of a palingenetic myth of the nation state, from Benito Mussolini in 1922:

We have created our myth. The myth is a faith, a passion. It is not necessary for it to be a reality. It is a reality in the sense that it is a stimulus, is hope, is faith, is courage. Our myth is the nation, our myth is the greatness of the nation! And to this myth, this greatness, which we want to translate into a total reality, we subordinate everything else.

From one of the links outlining the link between industrialists and the Nazis, from Joseph Goebbels on how broke the Nazis were by 1932 and why they needed to find some assistance from the monied classes:

(we) are all very discouraged, particularly in the face of the present danger that the entire party may collapse….The financial situation of the Berlin organization is hopeless. Nothing but debts and obligations.

There are more than that in there, but that'll do to illustrate my point: by having a crack at the historiography of the sources provided as evidence without looking at why they're saying what they've said or what evidence they've used to support their position is to evince a distrust in the study of history. 'Do your own research' is all very well and good, but deliberately avoiding those with better resources than you do, expertise and more time is rather silly.

If all you wanted was a link to a primary source, a translated copy of the Doctrines of Fascism by Mussolini is available here. He's pretty forthright about his loathing for socialism and his positioning of fascism as opposed to the left within it.

And just to be clear I’m not against education and learning at all. I’m all for it, it served me well in my career and life. But I do believe in fact checking on occasions. One can probably find academic support for both sides of most political discussions these days. Just because there may be a preponderance of opinion suggesting that Fascism is on the right side of the political spectrum doesn’t mean it must be factually correct. And in case you’re wondering, no I’m not an anti-vaxxer or climate sceptic.

I didn't say you were. Just, if you're planning on sticking around, a contrarian position that is undemonstrable might see you in a little bother.

This post is a bit TLDR but it does seem to be what you’re asking me to post.

Cheers.

 

[RedStarUncle]

Maybe read this and learn a little.

Were the Nazis Socialists? | Britannica

What’s the difference between National Socialists and every other kind of socialist?

www.britannica.com

Just from that link... you can almost word for word-for-word describe Trump's rise to prominence within the Republican party and subsequent allying with the technocrats.

Pre-existing party (Nazi Republican [or you could call that the Tea Party movement within the Republican party]), in a bid to broaden it's appeal (not overly popular outside of Bavaria conservative and rural voters), ties itself to a populist figure happy to sell easy solutions (Hitler Trump).

The plan works electorally, but now the populist figure is replacing figures within the party loyal to the original party ideals with those who are loyal to him, thus taking over the control of the party.

With electoral success, the nationalist rhetoric ramps up and the blaming of the "other" (communists, liberals, homosexuals, migrants, and Jews Muslims) at the same time that the party formalises its links with wealthy elites (German industrialists technocrats).





I mean... even as someone who has spent most of the last 8 years saying the comparisons are overblown, it now looks like it's the actual playbook.