Fixture Finals 2022 - Cats go in as Minor Premiers.

[Vdubs]

Isn't that the truth. It has always ground my gears the lack of recognition. It wouldn't need to be much either.

Maybe pregame on GF day, the McClelland Trophy could be presented to the captain and coach of the winning team.
If that is too high profile for peoples appetites you could do it before counting on Brownlow night.

That and get the media (where possible) to refer to the McClelland Trophy winners, rather than the "Minor Premiers" which sounds like kind of an insult.

It would soon catch on and become part of the conversation. Nothing to rival winning the actual premiership, but something of which to be very proud.

Exactly.
I think it should be presented as soon as it's known, like directly after the GC match in this case.
I recall the Demons were pretty chuffed at winning it this time last year.
On GF Day, pregame, could be a bit distracting if the team is playing.
Brownlow night does also sound appropriate- there are already so many other awards presented that night.

In soccer- A-League and EPL, the Premiers Plate is the big deal.
I would love to scrap finals altogether and just see which team finishes on top after each team plays each team twice- what an effort that would be, but that is probably too fair a concept for the AFL to consider.
And should we get a Tassie team, have each team play each team once only and have new 2 year cycles so that in year 2, the teams play at the opposite venue- a true home and away comp, but maybe have finals in that case.

 

[4quarter_cat]

Exactly.
I think it should be presented as soon as it's known, like directly after the GC match in this case.
I recall the Demons were pretty chuffed at winning it this time last year.
On GF Day, pregame, could be a bit distracting if the team is playing.
Brownlow night does also sound appropriate- there are already so many other awards presented that night.

I like it Vdubs. You are right about the GF I didn't consider that. I do love your on the game day too.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Taking the long route with interstate finals will drain any team we have seen that year in year out , the tigers are scrapping into the 8 and will have to do a Bulldogs feat which I just can’t see happening they have too many things to go against them for that to happen and with some strong teams like Dees /SYD and us I wouldn’t put money on them being a threat this year.

They're not zero chance but they're unlikely to get there

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Never was.
Still, anyone playing on him in a final would be s#*ting potatoes I’d reckon

I think Blitz is a good match up for a hard tag. Whether we want I use him that way is a different question

 

[iameviljez]

On 2 disagree. Lynch doesnt have half the talent that a hawkins or a jeremy cameron does (or even curnow for that matter) what he does have is a big tank and great workrate and he blew up the hawks young defenders who couldnt go with him endurance wise..that wont happen against us.

I think you're underrating Lynch. He's not as talented as Cameron, but he's not the same kind of player - he's a traditional CHF and he's excellent at it.

He is very, very strong overhead - probably the best contested mark in the competition and he is deadly in front of goal.

He was absolutely the difference against us in 2019, and still played well enough against us in mid-year.

 

[cats_09]

 

[Romeoh1]

We are the best team in it this year. Swans, dees will give us a run for our money. Tigers going ok. Pies look to be tiring. Freo and brissy not so tricky if playing in Melbourne.
Dees haven’t quite found their fantastic form from last year. Buddy’s second and third efforts appear to be spread the arms and appeal to the umps, so he’s gettable. The pies and tigers, Freo,brissy won’t beat us.
Good teams take their chances- we will win our first final and set ourselves up for serious tilt at the flag. Comon Cats- let’s do this.

 

[Kitcat]

Isn't that the truth. It has always ground my gears the lack of recognition. It wouldn't need to be much either.

Maybe pregame on GF day, the McClelland Trophy could be presented to the captain and coach of the winning team.
If that is too high profile for peoples appetites you could do it before counting on Brownlow night.

That and get the media (where possible) to refer to the McClelland Trophy winners, rather than the "Minor Premiers" which sounds like kind of an insult.

It would soon catch on and become part of the conversation. Nothing to rival winning the actual premiership, but something of which to be very proud.

To give it real bite and attract enormous fan interest, I would give the winner an extra draft pick, say end of second round, that can’t be traded and can only be used on a 17/18 year old. That way an already successful club doesn’t get an immediate benefit.
In order not to give a double reward, the pick would be withdrawn should the McClelland winner also win the flag.
As most recent McClelland winners have not taken the flag, they got no material benefit. Getting an extra pick would ease some of that pain.

 

[RogersResults]

What was the trophy? you use to get for minor premiers, started with Mc

First some words from an Australian Football Hall of 'Famer' - R.W.E. Wilmot (writing as 'Old Boy').
"Several correspondents have written regarding what they call "the minor premiership" and "the right of challenge", and it is extraordinary to think that these questions should be asked. There is no such thing as the "minor premiership", nor is there a "right of challenge". Very many years ago these expressions were used. "Minor premiers" were those who led at the end of the first round, and thus had the right to challenge the winners of the final game if beaten in a semi-final or final. Despite the fact that this has been explained frequently, ignorance on the subject still exists."
Argus 30th August 1926. See more: Myth of the Minor Premiers

Since the advent of world's greatest purveyor of misinformation, the 'World Wide Web' the ludicrous title 'Minor Premiers' has crept back into use. The unquestioning see it and spread it. (It is true that in relatively recently times the Rugby 'no-necks' - who make do with just a very rudimentary brain-stem, have used the term officially).

The McClelland Trophy instituted in 1951 and is named after William McClelland, a former Victorian Football League player and administrator and member of the Australian Football Hall of Fame.

Prior to 1991 the trophy was presented to the team with the best overall home-and-away record across the three levels of VFL/AFL play: seniors, reserves and under 19s. Seniors wins were worth ten points, reserves were worth four, and under 19s were worth two (with the values halved for drawn games).


In 1991 the criteria for winning the McClelland Trophy was changed to its current status: finishing atop the AFL ladder at the end of the home-and-away season. Since then the recipients have played in 23 Grand Finals and won just 10 of them.

The only current slight advantage that the McClelland Trophy winner has over the team finishing 2nd is that they get to play the nominally 'weaker' 4th placed team in a Qualifying Final. If the Premiership Cup doesn't appear beside it, it is soon forgotten let alone wanting to remembered in the nitwit-verse as the 'minor premier'.

 

[RogersResults]

If you want to be really annoyed.... Port in 2002 and 2003 not only have different size lettering but a different font as well...

As someone who does this stuff for a living I absolutely share the being bothered by it being all over the place

There is no such thing as the 'minor premier'

NodeSupport / Guides / Internode Members Webspace End of Life | Internode

www.users.on.net

 

[RogersResults]

Since the finals bye was introduced, there's always been a Thursday final instead of Sunday. The last Sunday final was played in 2015 (excluding 2021 because of no pre-finals bye).

2021
1v4: Saturday
2v3: Friday

2020
1v4: Thursday
2v3: Friday

2019
1v4: Friday
2v3: Saturday

2018
1v4: Thursday
2v3: Saturday

2017
1v4: Thursday
2v3: Friday

2016
1v4: Saturday
2v3: Friday

IMO, that ladbrokes article is just full of placeholders, the finals fixture is done on a case by case basis.

The 2021 Elimination Final between the Western Bulldogs and Essendon was played on a Sunday in Tasmania.
Sun 29-Aug-2021 3:20 PM

 

[RogersResults]

The McClelland used to mean something.
Not anymore. Now you just get it for finishing on top.

Since 1991 this will be Geelong's 5th McClelland. (Port Adelaide is next with 4).

 

[00VicWard001]

Agree on point 1 but we are in far better form now than we were then.

On 2 disagree. Lynch doesnt have half the talent that a hawkins or a jeremy cameron does (or even curnow for that matter) what he does have is a big tank and great workrate and he blew up the hawks young defenders who couldnt go with him endurance wise..that wont happen against us.
Bolton has oodles of talent but he is still terribly inconsistent (see him getting tagged out of it on sunday by an average kid in maginess) hes not close to the best small forward in the league charlie cameron is (and stengle will join him in a couple of years the way he us going).
On 3. while they should have won more close games they still have significant holes. Their midfield is average, nankervis is playing injured, they have a lot of injuries to key players and their turnover game is still good but not as lethal as it was.

The only thing in their favour is that martin is still the best player in the league and could win them finals off his boot but thats a lot to ask of an injured 31yo who has barely played all year.

Id be staggered if they made a GF from here but good luck to them.

They'd have to beat Collingwood/Melbourne/Lions in week 1, then Brisbane/Sydney/Melbourne in the semi's and us in the PF (asssuming we win week 1) in their worst case. Not a single one of these teams is going to be easy. They probably have the hardest path to GF.

 

[4quarter_cat]

To give it real bite and attract enormous fan interest, I would give the winner an extra draft pick, say end of second round, that can’t be traded and can only be used on a 17/18 year old. That way an already successful club doesn’t get an immediate benefit.
In order not to give a double reward, the pick would be withdrawn should the McClelland winner also win the flag.
As most recent McClelland winners have not taken the flag, they got no material benefit. Getting an extra pick would ease some of that pain.

Yeah.... no. Let's not go overboard here. Winning the Grand Final should always remain the ultimate goal and be considered as the team achievement of highest note.

My comment, and I believe the nub of what Vdubs was suggesting was that it would also be good to also recognise other notable feats more appropriately than being dismissed as "Minor". It is a huge achievement and I will disagree with anyone who thinks its not.

That's why I think it should be spoken about in the media with more reverence by scrapping the term "Minor Premiership", and having a smaller simple presentation to the winning club which is public and worthy of its own press.

 

[thecatattack]

Obviously a champion team but they just beat Hawthorn ffs who are sitting in 13th. Now everyone is losing their minds. Apparently Tom Lynch is now the best forward in the game after kicking 8 on a kid.

Lynch kicked 0 and had 1 touch after Sicily went to him too. I'd be confident in saying he won't be kicking that many against us.

 

[JohnZ]

The 2021 Elimination Final between the Western Bulldogs and Essendon was played on a Sunday in Tasmania.
Sun 29-Aug-2021 3:20 PM

In the post you quoted you will see that I said excluding 2021 because last year had no pre finals bye so no Thursday final was possible.

 

[Kitcat]

Yeah.... no. Let's not go overboard here. Winning the Grand Final should always remain the ultimate goal and be considered as the team achievement of highest note.

My comment, and I believe the nub of what Vdubs was suggesting was that it would also be good to also recognise other notable feats more appropriately than being dismissed as "Minor". It is a huge achievement and I will disagree with anyone who thinks its not.

That's why I think it should be spoken about in the media with more reverence by scrapping the term "Minor Premiership", and having a smaller simple presentation to the winning club which is public and worthy of its own press.

I agree with your sentiment but your suggestion will not generate any more worthiness than now, as there would be nothing material gained by finishing top. Give a pick as a prize and you get real interest and reward.
From 1877 to the late 1890s, Rules only recognised the team finishing top of the ladder. Until the mid 1920s, the team on top was recognised in that if it lost the preliminary final, it could challenge the winner of the following final. This is support for restoring it by giving it some value other than getting to play the 4th placed team (which for Geelong can mean playing at the opponent’s home ground, the MCG).

 

[4quarter_cat]

I agree with your sentiment but your suggestion will not generate any more worthiness than now, as there would be nothing material gained by finishing top. Give a pick as a prize and you get real interest and reward.
From 1877 to the late 1890s, Rules only recognised the team finishing top of the ladder. Until the mid 1920s, the team on top was recognised in that if it lost the preliminary final, it could challenge the winner of the following final. This is support for restoring it by giving it some value other than getting to play the 4th placed team (which for Geelong can mean playing at the opponent’s home ground, the MCG).

I disagree.

What does a club gain materially by winning the premiership?
They don't get extra picks or any advantage the year after. If anything they are punished just for playing by in the finals by making their off-season is shorter. So why bother, why not just aim to finish 9th every year? What they gain is reputational, which leads to members, sponsorship dollars, etc. which flow indirectly. In short they come from the prestige of winning the premiership.

What generates the prestige? The fact that it dominates the conversation of every football clubs ultimate goals every year, both publicly, and privately.

The McClelland Trophy is barely recognised publicly, there is therefore no reason what so ever for it to be celebrated even privately. It just doesn't have a public profile. If it did it would be celebrated more. It's not so it isn't. Changing the conversation by giving it a proper awards ceremony, and getting people to use it proper name instead of "minor premiership", gives it a lift in profile without affecting the prestige of winning the actual premiership.

I will be happy when I hear coaches answer questions with statements like "We're delighted to win the McClelland trophy and now that its secure we can return our focus to winning the premiership.".

 

[Spearman]

I disagree.

What does a club gain materially by winning the premiership?
They don't get extra picks or any advantage the year after. If anything they are punished just for playing by in the finals by making their off-season is shorter. So why bother, why not just aim to finish 9th every year? What they gain is reputational, which leads to members, sponsorship dollars, etc. which flow indirectly. In short they come from the prestige of winning the premiership.

What generates the prestige? The fact that it dominates the conversation of every football clubs ultimate goals every year, both publicly, and privately.

The McClelland Trophy is barely recognised publicly, there is therefore no reason what so ever for it to be celebrated even privately. It just doesn't have a public profile. If it did it would be celebrated more. It's not so it isn't. Changing the conversation by giving it a proper awards ceremony, and getting people to use it proper name instead of "minor premiership", gives it a lift in profile without affecting the prestige of winning the actual premiership.

I will be happy when I hear coaches answer questions with statements like "We're delighted to win the McClelland trophy and now that its secure we can return our focus to winning the premiership.".

Agreed, they need to up its profile or at least the reward, since the usual home field thingy doesn't matter anymore.

(unless they allow finals including the PF in KP after its done, in which case forget what I just said)

 

[goyoucatters]

Agree on point 1 but we are in far better form now than we were then.

On 2 disagree. Lynch doesnt have half the talent that a hawkins or a jeremy cameron does (or even curnow for that matter) what he does have is a big tank and great workrate and he blew up the hawks young defenders who couldnt go with him endurance wise..that wont happen against us.
Bolton has oodles of talent but he is still terribly inconsistent (see him getting tagged out of it on sunday by an average kid in maginess) hes not close to the best small forward in the league charlie cameron is (and stengle will join him in a couple of years the way he us going).
On 3. while they should have won more close games they still have significant holes. Their midfield is average, nankervis is playing injured, they have a lot of injuries to key players and their turnover game is still good but not as lethal as it was.

The only thing in their favour is that martin is still the best player in the league and could win them finals off his boot but thats a lot to ask of an injured 31yo who has barely played all year.

Id be staggered if they made a GF from here but good luck to them.

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

What are the chances of us being scheduled to play on the Thursday night?

Surely they would give Geelong fans the best chance of attending.
Surely..

 

[iameviljez]

What are the chances of us being scheduled to play on the Thursday night?

Surely they would give Geelong fans the best chance of attending.
Surely..

Qualifying finals are almost always in prime time, so it’s Friday or Saturday night for us.

 

[Mr Meow]

Anyone else find it amusing that Melbourne's best performances over the past two years have been interstate? They've actually rarely been dominant at the G.

Maybe they'll petition to play their finals outside of Victoria.

 

[thecatattack]

 

[catempire]

What are the chances of us being scheduled to play on the Thursday night?

Surely they would give Geelong fans the best chance of attending.
Surely..

Looking after Geelong fans will be zero factor in their considerations. We will almost certainly be Thursday or Friday.