For the believers, 2016 season still alive

[SpaceClef]

So many what-ifs, Sydney lost to Richmond with the last kick, so would be a game ahead anyway, also lost to Hawks by 5 points and WB by 4 points.

Geelong lost to Carlton, Collingwood and St Kilda!

Adelaide lost to North due to Goldstein going bonkers in the last. Lost to Hawks by 3 points because of #freekickhawthorn

Tru

 

[Moose1414]

First of all, do you have any medical or scientific background? Otherwise I think you are talking about things way out of your league here. I suggest you read what is in ep2006 signature.




You are very brave - research articles are very hard to read through at the best of times. With regard to the other thread, I'd say the mods have got this correct.



What are these conditions anyway? Keeping the ACL safe?

Yes I did read a little. The following is from the conclusion from that article (you actually quoted this but I think you misinterprited it)
" A strain of the more proximal plantaris muscle belly may also occur as an isolated injury, or in conjunction with injury to the adjacent ACL"

This article does NOT say an ACL injury results from the removal of plantaris tendon - it just says that a strain of plantaris tendon could occur as a result of an ACL injury.



Are you suggesting the club took a gamble with its most important player without any regard to the consequences? Has the club ever done anything like that in the past?



Do you really think the WCE decides the recovery time? I am pretty sure that it is up to the surgeons to decide the appropriate recovery time.



This 12 months is for ACL recovery, nothing to do with the plantaris. Why would Nic need 12 months? He did not have any ligaments implanted they just took some out.
Now this plantaris as a donor ligament is the funny part about your whole argument. If the plantaris is indeed indispensible for the protection of the ACL as you say it is then why would anyone in their right mind remove and transplant it in the knee thereby making the knee susceptible further injuries in the future? Makes no sense at all.




Please provide proof to back this vice versa part.

How would you know the second bolded bit?

Do you have any evidence to back your claim in the third bolded bit?

Again, any proof to back up the fourth bolded bit? Are you seriously saying the surgeons who did the first operation did not know what they were doing and hence the shorter recovery time?

Too many questions to answer to there, lets just get on with believing we can win this premiership without Nic. The place to discuss them in full would be another thread. Which by the way you said is not a thread or discussion worth having so it'd be silly for me to try and get deeper. If you agree a thread on this topic should be shut down by mods why then continue to have that exact discussion here?

I made it pretty clear I wasn't a dr and was framing the discussion in general terms hoping someone with more experience would chime in, not for someone who self admittedly did less reading on the matter to suggest I need a medical degree or else the discussion is invalid. I don't have one, never said I did. Its an uncommon procedure what Nic had to deal with his achilles I was curious to know more about it, none of us are professional football analysts here either yet we spend all day talking about how the teams going. Not sure why there's a need to draw the line on the medical aspects of the game and say we all need to be dr's to have that discussion.

I'll cherry pick one of your questions to answer: For your own arguments you quoted the article on plantaris tendons and noted that ACL injuries do result in simultaneous plantaris damage, then turned around and asked if I had any proof there wasn't zero connection between ACL and plantaris tendon injuries. To me you answered your own question there, it is not logical to say that routinely an injury to body part a results in an injury to body part b but an operation on body part b could never then have a flow on effect to body part a. There is a physiological link between the 2, I'm not a dr and I don't know the intimate details of the relationship between the 2 but there is clearly a relationship there and its hardly ignorant to be curious to know more about that as you seem to be suggesting.

Anyway, agree to disagree on the topic and the merits of a discussion around it. Looking forward to taking it up to the Crows friday night and cementing 5th and home final then adding some silver wear to the trophy cabinet.

 

[Moose1414]

McGOvern out of the backline - just no!! Not at this late stage. did you not see what happened when he was moved into the ruck in a previous game (forget which game it was). The backline needs him.

It was the Collingwood game, the one where Barrass was dropped for Mckenzie yet still flown over as an emergency and Emac almost single handedly lost us the game every time he touched the ball. Play Barrass in that game and he probably would of covered Gov fine and we probably would of won too.

 

[eagle dtrain]

The Time Is Now!!!
We have the opportunity to make a statement starting this week by beating the Crows. What better opportunity could we ask for Friday night footy packed house home finals for both on the line both teams with a top 3 player sidelined.
No excuses time for our team to rise above show that last week wasnt a flash in the pan. Simmo needs to be ruthless with the boys JK needs to stand up the midfield needs to break even and our finishing needs to be clinical. If we win this the confidence it will bring to the group will be amazing. This finals series is wide open anything can happen mental toughness will be what separates the teams under pressure can we stand up why not!!

 

[dave123]

I hope we go out hard

Bang bodies ...hurt people

 

[sey666]

Too many questions to answer to there, lets just get on with believing we can win this premiership without Nic. The place to discuss them in full would be another thread. Which by the way you said is not a thread or discussion worth having so it'd be silly for me to try and get deeper. If you agree a thread on this topic should be shut down by mods why then continue to have that exact discussion here?

I made it pretty clear I wasn't a dr and was framing the discussion in general terms hoping someone with more experience would chime in, not for someone who self admittedly did less reading on the matter to suggest I need a medical degree or else the discussion is invalid. I don't have one, never said I did. Its an uncommon procedure what Nic had to deal with his achilles I was curious to know more about it, none of us are professional football analysts here either yet we spend all day talking about how the teams going. Not sure why there's a need to draw the line on the medical aspects of the game and say we all need to be dr's to have that discussion.

Of course you don't need a medical degree to discuss it. However, you have to be a medical expert to critisize the first surgery and to suggest that a multi-million dollar organisation and eminently qualified medical personnel have overlooked something a layperson can look up on the internet and this what you did here and also in the closed thread.

I'll cherry pick one of your questions to answer: For your own arguments you quoted the article on plantaris tendons and noted that ACL injuries do result in simultaneous plantaris damage, then turned around and asked if I had any proof there wasn't zero connection between ACL and plantaris tendon injuries. To me you answered your own question there, it is not logical to say that routinely an injury to body part a results in an injury to body part b but an operation on body part b could never then have a flow on effect to body part a. There is a physiological link between the 2, I'm not a dr and I don't know the intimate details of the relationship between the 2 but there is clearly a relationship there and its hardly ignorant to be curious to know more about that as you seem to be suggesting.

No I asked you whether you have any evidence to prove that the lack of the plantaris tendon could lead to an ACL injury. By the way the article you cited says nothing about this. Second bolded part need not be true; for example Naitanui experienced soreness in the achilies but he did not get any knee soreness as a result. Your arguments certainly do not follow the rules of logic. This is the human body - of course there are physiological links between all body parts.
Have you looked at the video where Naitanui talks about the plantaris surgery? It is not like "oh, we just had dozens and dozens of vitamin C injections a week and nothing more" type of thing - he seemed like know very clearly what the procedure was about and what it was going to do to his body; to me this is good enough.

Anyway, agree to disagree on the topic and the merits of a discussion around it. Looking forward to taking it up to the Crows friday night and cementing 5th and home final then adding some silver wear to the trophy cabinet.

Agreed. I too believe we can still do some damage in the finals this year.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

The Time Is Now!!!
We have the opportunity to make a statement starting this week by beating the Crows. What better opportunity could we ask for Friday night footy packed house home finals for both on the line both teams with a top 3 player sidelined.
No excuses time for our team to rise above show that last week wasnt a flash in the pan. Simmo needs to be ruthless with the boys JK needs to stand up the midfield needs to break even and our finishing needs to be clinical. If we win this the confidence it will bring to the group will be amazing. This finals series is wide open anything can happen mental toughness will be what separates the teams under pressure can we stand up why not!!

If we win Friday we'll make a prelim for sure.

 

[smiths]

If it weren't for our horrid schedule this season I reckon we top the ladder with a game or 2 to spare.

Of the top 8 teams:
Vs GWS, Swans, Cats, Bulldogs (when they had players) ONLY AWAY.

Vs Hawks and Crows twice home and away - easy to say they have been the best 2 teams
this year.

Vs Kangaroos home. The one thing we've had in our favor.


Hopefully the tough away games + the win in Sydney 2 weeks ago have prepared us enough for some wins interstate come September.

 

[Eagleboy68]

Great win and great thread.

 

[Moose1414]

Agreed. I too believe we can still do some damage in the finals this year.

I'll drink to that, cheers.

 

[donpyke92]

Look Nic is my all time favourite Eagle and watching him is a joy and I may never forgive this club for whats happened but the 2016 season is more alive today that its been at any point this season. This is a thread for anyone who isn't ready to roll over and die with one week to go before finals.

Good stuff Moose. I'm still half glass full & think we're playing great at the right time of the year.
Unfortunate we didn't beat crows/collingwood earlier to finish top 2 but whatever.
As it stands, I think we are the form team at the moment, so the dream is still alive.
As a quick aside, posters banging on about our 'B grade" midfield might be having another thought...GWS, Hawks, Crows...pretty impressive

 

[Marlin01]

Are we better placed going into the finals this year than last year?

+ we're more experienced this year
- we don't have NikNat
+ we probably have a bit more form
- we'll almost certainly be starting outside the 4
+/- the week's break before the finals.

What do you reckon?

 

[nameless]

We're not better placed. Purely on our finishing position.

But I hope we can change history by winning from outside top 4.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Are we better placed going into the finals this year than last year?

+ we're more experienced this year
- we don't have NikNat
+ we probably have a bit more form
- we'll almost certainly be starting outside the 4
+/- the week's break before the finals.

What do you reckon?

I feel like its a bit of 2012, in the sense that we were clearly better in 2012 than 2011 despite finishing outside the 4. Let's just hope we don't fudge a final like we did against Collingwood that year.

 

[PerthBoy86]

We're not better placed. Purely on our finishing position.

But I hope we can change history by winning from outside top 4.

I think it's bound to happen sooner or later. Even though they were in the top 4, Swans of '05, Eagles of '06 and Hawks last year won having to play all three finals before winning the GF. I think a few others too?

 

[squashface]

I feel like its a bit of 2012, in the sense that we were clearly better in 2012 than 2011 despite finishing outside the 4. Let's just hope we don't fudge a final like we did against Collingwood that year.

embley.gif

 

[ep2018]

embley.gif

Ffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu the kick out of defensive 50 that dribbled along the ground, burned into my mind for the rest of my life

 

[Brave Sir Robin]

I think it's bound to happen sooner or later. Even though they were in the top 4, Swans of '05, Eagles of '06 and Hawks last year won having to play all three finals before winning the GF. I think a few others too?

That and the whole 'can't win from outside the top 4' thing is a bit of a self-selecting sample.

Most years there is a chasm between some of the teams in the top 4 (usually top 2) and those making up the numbers. Of course the double chance affords an extra advantage but a large part of the reason teams in the top 4 win is because they are usually so much better than everyone else. Pretty obvious that isn't the case this year.

Like you say, teams have done it playing every week and it's not even that rare.

 

[PerthBoy86]

We're not better placed. Purely on our finishing position.

But I hope we can change history by winning from outside top 4.

Form also has to be taken into consideration. If I recall we were a

That and the whole 'can't win from outside the top 4' thing is a bit of a self-selecting sample.

Most years there is a chasm between some of the teams in the top 4 (usually top 2) and those making up the numbers. Of course the double chance affords an extra advantage but a large part of the reason teams in the top 4 win is because they are usually so much better than everyone else. Pretty obvious that isn't the case this year.

Like you say, teams have done it playing every week and it's not even that rare.

Yeah, the whole 'double-chance' thing isn't everything. If a team is good enough, they'll find a way. Sure, things were different when Adelaide won it in 97 (or was it 98?), but this season has been particularly even, so if it's going to happen, quite likely to happen this season. I mean, we were flogged at Adelaide Oval in round 22 last year. I forgot where the Crows sat on the ladder, but the fact it's the opposite this year.

I still have a weird superstition that the Eagles will always win a premiership the year after they lose one. Happened in '92, '06 and I'm banking on it happening on '16. I know it's not rational, but I prefer to believe .

 

[Keys]

Assuming no more upsets, finals will be
1v4 - Sydney v GWS
2v3 - Geelong v hawthorn
5v8 - Adelaide v north
6v7 - Eagles v Bulldogs

Beat the Bulldogs and we play the loser of Hawks/Geelong at the MCG

Win that and we play the winner of the Sydney derby in a prelim

If we make it past that we have another GF against most likely either Geelong or hawthorn

The road to the GF is going to be real difficult

 

[ChampRevesby]

History is against us winning the flag outside the top 4 but if we maintain this form through the finals we might do some damage.

 

[SpaceClef]

Ffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu the kick out of defensive 50 that dribbled along the ground, burned into my mind for the rest of my life

One of the biggest melts in my lounge room as a result of that

 

[Brave Sir Robin]

There's about a 70% chance of at least one upset involving the teams in the 8 so still a lot of watching and waiting to do IMO.

 

[MWPP]

Best case scenario (in terms of finishing position) would be GWS and Hawthorn both losing :
1. Sydney
2. Geelong
3. Adelaide
4. Eagles
5. Hawthorn
6. WB
7. GWS
8. North

That would mean a free hit v. Sydney in week one, then a chance to knock out Hawthorn (or North) in week two

If one of them (but not both of them) lose, then we'll probably finish 5th and likely play either GWS or Adelaide away in week 2 if we beat North in week 1
No team has won a flag from 4th under the current system either, so there probably isn't much difference between 4th/5th/6th .....
Go Eagles

 

[getgaff]

Always thought that a semi or prelim bow out at a stretch would be our distance this year.

Still think the same but having a home elimination final is a big advantage especially against the Bulldogs struggling with injury and would be there second trip west in three weeks.