Get a tall amd a crumber and fix fwd structures

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Couldn't agree more. Watched Higgins beat the blues on the weekend. See how important Papley, Stengle, Ginnivan, Rioli, Cameron, Rankin and Watson are to their teams. No Rankin no Adelaide. Papley goes down and they lose three games. Ginnivan and Watson turned tight games into wins, sneaking them into the eight. Even Owies has become hot property working at the feet of Curnow and McKay.

Alison at the feet of Roberts, Carey and McKernan turned half chances into goals. LT and Boomer lifted us from middling to contenders.

Classy small forwards please.
 
Are we thinking a power forward or a tall mobile forward?
 
Still think Comben is earmarked for CHF. The logical sequence of events is that Wawson comes on, partners with Logue and Corr, and Comben nails down a spot without having a freak accident.

Crumbers should definitely be a priority. Taking Watson would've been a risk but old mate Nostrils was right imo. What are we gonna do with all of Ford, George, Curtis, Zurhaar and Duursma? Play musical chairs? None of them have any trade value so we're gonna be trying to squeeze them all in for at least next year. More player/draft savvy people than me will have a view on who to target
 
zoomba23 said:
Still think Comben is earmarked for CHF. The logical sequence of events is that Wawson comes on, partners with Logue and Corr, and Comben nails down a spot without having a freak accident.

Crumbers should definitely be a priority. Taking Watson would've been a risk but old mate Nostrils was right imo. What are we gonna do with all of Ford, George, Curtis, Zurhaar and Duursma? Play musical chairs? None of them have any trade value so we're gonna be trying to squeeze them all in for at least next year. More player/draft savvy people than me will have a view on who to target
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We have a list of 42 players. If we play two or three of them in the firsts the others are depth. Its one area we have depth in, why cut it?

Lazzaro and Phillips are at worst midfield depth. Until someone better comes along why cut them?

There are over 40 players on a list so not all of them will play in the best side and there are other players we can get rid of before them.
 
ferball said:
We have a list of 42 players. If we play two or three of them in the firsts the others are depth. Its one area we have depth in, why cut it?

Lazzaro and Phillips are at worst midfield depth. Until someone better comes along why cut them?

There are over 40 players on a list so not all of them will play in the best side and there are other players we can get rid of before them.
Click to expand...
Lazzaro and Phillips are comfortable midfield depth for mine because they both work hard and are clearly behind others in the midfield pecking order. That seems like a structured hierarchy, but the med fwd brigade feels like anarchy, whilst simultaneously RHJ is the only thing we have resembling a small forward. I dunno, it just feels like the list management hasn't helped in this regard. I don't think there's another team that has such talent amongst their medium forwards. And for good reason; it's arguably the most useless position to have depth in
 
zoomba23 said:
Lazzaro and Phillips are comfortable midfield depth for mine because they both work hard and are clearly behind others in the midfield pecking order. That seems like a structured hierarchy, but the med fwd brigade feels like anarchy, whilst simultaneously RHJ is the only thing we have resembling a small forward. I dunno, it just feels like the list management hasn't helped in this regard. I don't think there's another team that has such talent amongst their medium forwards. And for good reason; it's arguably the most useless position to have depth in
Click to expand...
Since 2020 we've drafted or traded in Atu, Mahoney, Cooper Harvey, Spicer, RHJ and Blake Drury as small forward options. (Atu was immediately moved to the backline by Noble where he thrived...) Admittedly only he, Coops and RHj were probably proper small forwards but Drury is okay depth in the position as well. In 2021 Mahony averaged over 3 tackles a game playing on the forward line too. So he definitely brought defensive pressure.

We've definitely brought in players to play that position, even if we got them from Best and Less. But lets not get carried away by small forwards.

Ginnivan is at least as tall as Paul Curtis. The Lions had no one under six foot on their forward line in the GF and apparently Cooper harvey who is 180cm is a medium forward so none of those guys are small forwards. Collingwood had Elliot and Hill who are about 5'9 or 5'10. Both mark like they're three inches taller tho. (As did LT.) They also play De Goey, McCreery and Hoskin-Elliot as forwards.

If we have Ford, Curtis and Zurhaar in the side why don't we have them all moving to different parts of the forward line and why aren't we moving the ball into our forward line in a way that takes advantage of that? They can all mark overhead and take one on one contested marks - its one of their strengths. Moreso when Duursma is playing regularly cos he is a fantastic mark.

(NOne of this is to say I don't think we need a fast, hardtackling, short arsed, smart arsed goal sneak on the forward line. For sure we do.)
 
ferball said:
Since 2020 we've drafted or traded in Atu, Mahoney, Cooper Harvey, Spicer, RHJ and Blake Drury as small forward options. (Atu was immediately moved to the backline by Noble where he thrived...) Admittedly only he, Coops and RHj were probably proper small forwards but Drury is okay depth in the position as well. In 2021 Mahony averaged over 3 tackles a game playing on the forward line too. So he definitely brought defensive pressure.

We've definitely brought in players to play that position, even if we got them from Best and Less. But lets not get carried away by small forwards.

Ginnivan is at least as tall as Paul Curtis. The Lions had no one under six foot on their forward line in the GF and apparently Cooper harvey who is 180cm is a medium forward so none of those guys are small forwards. Collingwood had Elliot and Hill who are about 5'9 or 5'10. Both mark like they're three inches taller tho. (As did LT.) They also play De Goey, McCreery and Hoskin-Elliot as forwards.

If we have Ford, Curtis and Zurhaar in the side why don't we have them all moving to different parts of the forward line and why aren't we moving the ball into our forward line in a way that takes advantage of that? They can all mark overhead and take one on one contested marks - its one of their strengths. Moreso when Duursma is playing regularly cos he is a fantastic mark.

(NOne of this is to say I don't think we need a fast, hardtackling, short arsed, smart arsed goal sneak on the forward line. For sure we do.)
Click to expand...
I know Phillips lacks the zip, but how do you think he'd go as a small pressure forward if he lightened up a tad with a big pre-season? One thing he does have is goal sense.
 

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Look at how infectious the energy is for Hawthorn with guys like Watson.

I'd be drafting at least 3 smalls this off-season, this is where I think we can make the most instant improvement. Right now if we don't take a mark it's almost guaranteed the ball's slingshotting straight out of our 50.
 
showusyacunningt said:
Look at how infectious the energy is for Hawthorn with guys like Watson.

I'd be drafting at least 3 smalls this off-season, this is where I think we can make the most instant improvement. Right now if we don't take a mark it's almost guaranteed the ball's slingshotting straight out of our 50.
Click to expand...
* smalls with pace and speed
 
zoomba23 said:
Still think Comben is earmarked for CHF. The logical sequence of events is that Wawson comes on, partners with Logue and Corr, and Comben nails down a spot without having a freak accident.

Crumbers should definitely be a priority. Taking Watson would've been a risk but old mate Nostrils was right imo. What are we gonna do with all of Ford, George, Curtis, Zurhaar and Duursma? Play musical chairs? None of them have any trade value so we're gonna be trying to squeeze them all in for at least next year. More player/draft savvy people than me will have a view on who to target
Click to expand...
Whilst I agree with your analysis in general re: bold I'd say:

Ford - No guarantee past next year IMO.
George - Seen as flexible, talented enough to demand a spot and obviously hasn't played a game.
Curtis - On track for A grade or better. Tick
Zurhaar - Good, solid, right age. Personally I think the option for a trade / FA was there but we can only act on interest from others and we need to retain senior players. Line ball call but he'll be closer to the end than the start when others come on.
Duursma - Similar to George, seen as flexible IMO

Agree we have too many mediums in the team, I don't necessarily think it's a big hole to dig out of - we just need min 2 good small forwards in and we need them now.
 
ferball said:
Since 2020 we've drafted or traded in Atu, Mahoney, Cooper Harvey, Spicer, RHJ and Blake Drury as small forward options. (Atu was immediately moved to the backline by Noble where he thrived...) Admittedly only he, Coops and RHj were probably proper small forwards but Drury is okay depth in the position as well. In 2021 Mahony averaged over 3 tackles a game playing on the forward line too. So he definitely brought defensive pressure.

We've definitely brought in players to play that position, even if we got them from Best and Less. But lets not get carried away by small forwards.

Ginnivan is at least as tall as Paul Curtis. The Lions had no one under six foot on their forward line in the GF and apparently Cooper harvey who is 180cm is a medium forward so none of those guys are small forwards. Collingwood had Elliot and Hill who are about 5'9 or 5'10. Both mark like they're three inches taller tho. (As did LT.) They also play De Goey, McCreery and Hoskin-Elliot as forwards.

If we have Ford, Curtis and Zurhaar in the side why don't we have them all moving to different parts of the forward line and why aren't we moving the ball into our forward line in a way that takes advantage of that? They can all mark overhead and take one on one contested marks - its one of their strengths. Moreso when Duursma is playing regularly cos he is a fantastic mark.

(NOne of this is to say I don't think we need a fast, hardtackling, short arsed, smart arsed goal sneak on the forward line. For sure we do.)
Click to expand...
I guess it's less about height and more about role. Ginnivan is not expected to take contested grabs like Paul Curtis or For or Zhurhaar are. He is agile and reacts quickly. Who do we have working at the feet of Larkey and Teakle? I like Simpkin in that role, and let's see if he can be a 40+ goal forward. RHJ is developing but if we had the chance to pick up someone who thinks and acts as quickly as Cameron or Papley, it would start turning our nothing bombs into half chances.
 
R00StaR said:
I know Phillips lacks the zip, but how do you think he'd go as a small pressure forward if he lightened up a tad with a big pre-season? One thing he does have is goal sense.
Click to expand...
Possibly better than some other people reckon.

He was almost invisible I thought on the weekend but he still had nine tackles. So if he could be at the fall of the ball and our forwards halved a few more contests then we could end up with repeat i50 stoppages off the back of his efforts and we need.

This year he's looked like he's running in treacle but in the past he's shown some speed over the first five steps and ran an 11.5 second 100m in high school. It could be worth trying.
 
HongKongRoo said:
I guess it's less about height and more about role. Ginnivan is not expected to take contested grabs like Paul Curtis or For or Zhurhaar are. He is agile and reacts quickly. Who do we have working at the feet of Larkey and Teakle? I like Simpkin in that role, and let's see if he can be a 40+ goal forward. RHJ is developing but if we had the chance to pick up someone who thinks and acts as quickly as Cameron or Papley, it would start turning our nothing bombs into half chances.
Click to expand...
Curtis is okay front and centre I reckon. It just doesn't happen enough cos our forwards don't halve enough contests. Jy too but he'll still go into the middle simply because he's older and has a bit of size/muscle about him. No one blocks or shepherds for us like Jy does. LDU is the next best option but I'd rather he was the one the block is put on for.
 
ferball said:
Possibly better than some other people reckon.

He was almost invisible I thought on the weekend but he still had nine tackles. So if he could be at the fall of the ball and our forwards halved a few more contests then we could end up with repeat i50 stoppages off the back of his efforts and we need.

This year he's looked like he's running in treacle but in the past he's shown some speed over the first five steps and ran an 11.5 second 100m in high school. It could be worth trying.
Click to expand...
Yeah i think its probably worth a try, he'd still get some mid minutes but be more that pressure fwd. The other as ive been saying the draft threads is Draper, play him more as a fwd/mid to start with, giving us a little more time to unearth more quick fwds. The tall im liking Gerreyn for the FWD/2nd ruck role and we'd be in with a shot at Ludowyke next year.

If Phillips worked, Draper and big pre-season from RHJ we'd have a lot more ground level pressure
 
ferball said:
Curtis is okay front and centre I reckon. It just doesn't happen enough cos our forwards don't halve enough contests. Jy too but he'll still go into the middle simply because he's older and has a bit of size/muscle about him. No one blocks or shepherds for us like Jy does. LDU is the next best option but I'd rather he was the one the block is put on for.
Click to expand...
It might be not the right thing to say, but whilst we've been waxing about Phillips finding a role as a tagger on one hand and trying to find the right spot for Simpkin on the other - I've often thought Jy might be an almost perfect candidate as a tagger. Knows where to run, can't be ignored because he will hit the goals the other way and can contribute whilst not being a prime mover which with his sometimes erratic disposal might be a good thing.
 

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Get a tall amd a crumber and fix fwd structures

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