Review Good/Bad/Ugly vs Hawthorn, R6 2023

[Southerntakeover]

Oh boy we've got a live one here.

 

[ams4crows]

Oh boy we've got a live one here.

Maybe if Negative Nelly could give it a
rest it'd be a happier place around here. The last time you seemed happy with anything crows related was like the Bay 119 project back in like 2007

 

[Moonwatcher]

You can just go back in the tv guide and stream it

THE SECRET KNOWLEDGE :O

 

[moogerfooger]

Good: You take a win in Tassie any day of the week. This had Round 1 GWS game written all over it entering time on in the 2nd Q. To grind it out and come from behind late is a bigger moment than it looks right now. Got to bank the four points from any away games we can.

Hawthorn well coached. They shut us out of the corridor and took Laird out of the game in the first half. Their pressure for the most part was elite.

Bad: Too reliant on Tex and Sloane to get the W. We looked slow and lethargic. Went away from our game and looked like we assumed we would just cruise it in. Too many bombs into 50, not enough lowering the eyes. None of the side steps that were a feature of last week.

Ugly: Umpires not paying HTB/throwing the ball/dropping the ball and players adjusting to the sling tackle rule meant endless standing tackles, none rewarded, with no outcome but a repeat bounce. Over and over again. Most boring game to watch in a decade.

 

[JohnnyD]

Has all the tools and doesn’t know how to use them

Could it have been he was a little undersized...those Hawk rucks looked like big boys...when he had that goal kicked against him in the forward ruck contest, I thought he looked a lot smaller...I generally think he's got good ruck craft and I'm sure it's something he'll get better at as he puts more muscle on...

 

[CrowBloke]

Ugly: the win! But I’ll take an ugly win over an honourable loss every day of the week! (to pinch Tex’s words).

Yes, me too. Ugly win = Lovely 4 points.

Speaking of Tex, interviewed after the game he said:
"I'll keep playing until I get the tap on the shoulder". He added that Burgess and an unnamed weights trainer had helped him a lot. He also said that he gets to choose when he trains which I took to be a Burgess-method of keeping him fresh.

 

[CrowBloke]

No

Thought same, without knowing. I miss his acerbic wit, tbh.

 

[119others]

The umps still owe us about 15 from the 2012 prelim

Was actually 28 decisions the club asked the umpiring dept to comment on. Weren’t the better team that year but we were robbed in that game, including the absolute softest 50 metre penalty against Birdman in the first few mins resulting in a Horks goal

 

[CrowBloke]

I thought Sholl was very good too

+

Put together a pretty solid month now. I was one of his biggest critics earlier on for looking like becoming Atkins 2.0 but I haven't seen any of that this year at all.

I think we're witnessing The Burgess Factor as a big part of Sholl's improvement, as well as others.
He's still undersized but not as scrawny; also looking forward more and making better decisions.

 

[CrowBloke]

I'm the same. He's always been able to kick the ball well but I had him in the same category as Hamill, just doesn't get enough of the ball to make it worth persisting with him.
1) But I'll take 23 touches from him every week of the season.

2) I reckon our forward line is expecting those good kicks now too. Players who wouldn't have nailed a short I50 pass in their entire careers are starting to regularly hit them now, and I think it's partially due to the forwards knowing one is likely to come and leading accordingly.

1) plus the touches have more quality to them eg Sholl's delivery to Tex from the E wing last week was elite. Sholl looked, took two steps then paused and looked again, then kicked to Tex's advantage ==> goal.
2) it's a feedback relationship, cause-effect both ways, almost symbiotic.
When the forwards lead and are ignored by bombs into the F50 (2020, until mid-2022), they learn to lead less.
When the players/deliverers are looking for leads before they kick, the forwards lead more and are getting better delivery. The improved short-passing into the F50 is one of the biggest and best changes this year, as you said.

 

[119others]

Just watching the highlights again. Man murray has turned into a gun. He was huge in the final minutes.

Agreed. Watch the last 20 seconds specifically. Spoils an incoming ball and then immediately recovers to smother a kick at goal.

then the very last play before ball up, Max bravely leads his opponent forward burrowing the ball forward to Murray who collects one grab and plays it perfectly taking the big hit and going straight to ground.

Murray brilliant last minute and thankfully is all we could have asked for from Mc Asey so we have dodged a bucket in terms of like for like but yes we all could have had Serong or Day instead - I get it

 

[footy4ever]

Annoying was our low passes to marking targets inside 50 when there were defenders in the way. Even loopy passes would have netted us 3 or 4 goals today.

As I mentioned before, Hawks did their homework and predicted those passes and cut them off repeatedly. What was our coaches’ counter tactic? I guess the win vindicates the process but our plan never changed even when it looked like a looming loss.

Having faith in the system is a good thing but that belligerent blind faith would have lost us the game against a quality side.

 

[CrowBloke]

Let's hope the media stops the 'Jones has made it' articles. It clearly impacted his game today.

That m-i-g-h-t be a reason, fair enough, but Jones doesn't strike me as the big-headed type.

Jones could have been more nervous than usual playing in front of friends/rellies.
Carmo suggested that the flu played a part, or some too-heavy training:

Pretty good effort based if not very classy win today.

Think we had the flu going thru the team. The SANFL had players out (and wright in with sickness). Magically Worrell got "soreness" two days after we named him. SANFL team played like crap, especially fumbly. Then we kept Himmelberg and Hately back as well. Then the AFL team fumbled like hell too. Its either sickness or we had a brutal training session (playing under duress simulation).

 

[FR0GGY]

Was actually 28 decisions the club asked the umpiring dept to comment on. Weren’t the better team that year but we were robbed in that game, including the absolute softest 50 metre penalty against Birdman in the first few mins resulting in a Horks goal

We got an official apology on 3 critical decisions I believe.

 

[George Kramer]

Who should he have kicked it sideways to Rabbit?..

All good to pot the young bloke but… did anyone present him with an easy option sideways?..

Can you give us a couple of names?…

Yeah I just watched that, it was poor by his teammates, no one could get separation and provide an option for him to kick to. He does the next best thing and kicks it long to a pack deep in our forward line and I believe it was Tex who gets out marked. We should have at least been able to create a stoppage.

 

[George Kramer]

That m-i-g-h-t be a reason, fair enough, but Jones doesn't strike me as the big-headed type.

Jones could have been more nervous than usual playing in front of friends/rellies.
Carmo suggested that the flu played a part, or some too-heavy training:

Cmon you can’t hang your hat on a Carmo theory

 

[CrowBloke]

Keays was poor today..

but I will say he certainly wasn't alone…

and it wouldnt have been an easy day to be a forward. the delivery was s**t because the guys up the field were constantly ofloading under pressure.

Really good, balanced post.
("Keays was poor today" is so much fairer than condemning him as "absolute garbage" . Have you mellowed, BC? )

 

[footy4ever]

Oh boy we've got a live one here.

It’s a rash. It’s all over the place and everywhere.

 

[CrowBloke]

Cmon you can’t hang your hat on a Carmo theory

I didn't.
Was just suggesting alternate reasons and didn't want to steal Carmo's idea.

 

[George Kramer]

The game sucked, they clogged us up and made a defensive slog Fest. We didn’t handle it well at all. We couldn’t get any separation, we kicked poorly and fumbled.

I don’t think good teams will follow this lead as they will back in their game plan to win, that will open up some more flow for us.

Some crucial pieces of play late, Rachelle winning the clearance, Keays having the poise to handball to Rankine rather than going for goal, Rankine goal was something special, to get past 2 players and then snap it.

Fogs goal was just unbelievable, not much more can be said.

Max in that last 45 seconds, had at least 2 defensive efforts. He made the brave decision to meet the ball and smother it rather than stand their like his Hawks player, if he let it bounce who knows where it goes.

Game sucked, we generally sucked, we won.

 

[119others]

We got an official apology on 3 critical decisions I believe.

Interesting and rare I would imagine.

so then you would hope over coming years the umpiring would be somewhat more neutral for interstate teams in GF…but then we see Swans absolutely robbed in 2016 (and I was hoping they would lose but not a shadow of doubt the umps dictated that result), and then in 2017 the following (combined with going in too tall, Milera should have come in for Otten, CC early injury knock curtailed his influence, the swirly breeze and light rain and rules at the time favoured Tigers ugly congested chaos ball style and of course we were overcome and choked on the day also it must be said). And that’s not even mentioning the Tigers home ground, it’s just so ****** hard winning at The G where a Vic club has a clear 4 goal advantage as seen in 2007, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2019 and 2022. Only Swans and Weagles have won out of last 10 attempts and it seems to be getting harder (7 of last 8 results Vic teams have won - often VERY easily against interstate tea,S despite he interstate team finishing Higher on the ladder end of minor round). Ultimately we need to push for best of 3 GF format with 2 held in top ranked teams city and always one held at The G to honour ridiculously extended by stealth 40 year GF contract

But neutral umps and we may have been 4-5 goals up in first half and who knows what happens. I was at the game with 2 MLB based mates (Pies and Kanagas fans) and both agreed we were hard done by when he game was to be decided (and then given some late soft frees to even things up)

 

[FR0GGY]

The game sucked, they clogged us up and made a defensive slog Fest. We didn’t handle it well at all. We couldn’t get any separation, we kicked poorly and fumbled.

I don’t think good teams will follow this lead as they will back in their game plan to win, that will open up some more flow for us.

Some crucial pieces of play late, Rachelle winning the clearance, Keays having the poise to handball to Rankine rather than going for goal, Rankine goal was something special, to get past 2 players and then snap it.

Fogs goal was just unbelievable, not much more can be said.

Max in that last 45 seconds, had at least 2 defensive efforts. He made the brave decision to meet the ball and smother it rather than stand their like his Hawks player, if he let it bounce who knows where it goes.

Game sucked, we generally sucked, we won.

Not sure if it’s the one you meant but Rachele won an important ball on the boundary to get the ball forward to either fog or Rankines last goal.

 

[119others]

The game sucked, they clogged us up and made a defensive slog Fest. We didn’t handle it well at all. We couldn’t get any separation, we kicked poorly and fumbled.

I don’t think good teams will follow this lead as they will back in their game plan to win, that will open up some more flow for us.

Some crucial pieces of play late, Rachelle winning the clearance, Keays having the poise to handball to Rankine rather than going for goal, Rankine goal was something special, to get past 2 players and then snap it.

Fogs goal was just unbelievable, not much more can be said.

Max in that last 45 seconds, had at least 2 defensive efforts. He made the brave decision to meet the ball and smother it rather than stand their like his Hawks player, if he let it bounce who knows where it goes.

Game sucked, we generally sucked, we won.

Watch Murray’s last 30 seconds. 3 crucial plays

 

[FR0GGY]

Interesting and rare I would imagine.

so then you would hope over coming years the umpiring would be somewhat more neutral for interstate teams in GF…but then we see Swans absolutely robbed in 2016 (and I was hoping they would lose but not a shadow of doubt the umps dictated that result), and then in 2017 the following (combined with going in too tall, Milera should have come in for Otten, CC early injury knock curtailed his influence, the swirly breeze and light rain and rules at the time favoured Tigers ugly congested chaos ball style and of course we were overcome and choked on the day also it must be said). And that’s not even mentioning the Tigers home ground, it’s just so ****** hard winning at The G where a Vic club has a clear 4 goal advantage as seen in 2007, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2019 and 2022. Only Swans and Weagles have won out of last 10 attempts and it seems to be getting harder (7 of last 8 results Vic teams have won - often VERY easily against interstate tea,S despite he interstate team finishing Higher on the ladder end of minor round). Ultimately we need to push for best of 3 GF format with 2 held in top ranked teams city and always one held at The G to honour ridiculously extended by stealth 40 year GF contract

But neutral umps and we may have been 4-5 goals up in first half and who knows what happens. I was at the game with 2 MLB based mates (Pies and Kanagas fans) and both agreed we were hard done by when he game was to be decided (and then given some late soft frees to even things up)

Actually I believe it might be the 2nd official apology in a final we have received.
That 2012 prelim one was the closest I’ve ever coming to punching a tv.

 

[CrowBloke]

As a team we looked drained and lethargic across the board. Considering the long break this seemed weird.

Everyone was fumbly, missed kicks and hand balls, even Dawson who's usually very clean was fumbly and missing targets.

This.
Yet the week before they were switched on, aggro and highly-skilled after a 5-day break.
You'd think it'd be the other way around.