GWS is the AFL's biggest problem - not North, GC, or Tassie

[Bjo187]

Who cares?

Rugby league has been around in its current form, more or less, for 116 years and the crowds have been, more or less, the same. Why the hell do you think a few extra decades will change that?

It is what it is. League fans don’t care. I follow both sports equally and couldn’t have a shit one way or the other. League gets more tv viewership, afl gets way bigger crowds. That second part is never going to change.

I like the Giants, I hope they do well and while I have huge respect for the swans if I had a choice I would always support the Giants.

This is absolutely wrong. Stop pedaling this false narrative. Head to head the afl beats the nrl by over 300k every Thursday, Friday and Saturday night. AFL games overlap, nrl never do, rugby league has 3 games in prime time Thursday and Friday, compared to one or sometimes 2 for AFL. I'll give you the example from last night, which doesn't even include foxtel which would increase the lead even more.

I couldn't care less about nrl crowds, I'm pointing out the crap the giants cop in the same market with 10x the disadvantages and intentional negative media attention.

 

[PhatBoy]

This is absolutely wrong. Stop pedaling this false narrative. Head to head the afl beats the nrl by over 300k every Thursday, Friday and Saturday night. AFL games overlap, nrl never do, rugby league has 3 games in prime time Thursday and Friday, compared to one or sometimes 2 for AFL. I'll give you the example from last night, which doesn't even include foxtel which would increase the lead even more.

I couldn't care less about nrl crowds, I'm pointing out the crap the giants cop in the same market with 10x the disadvantages and intentional negative media attention.

View attachment 2116820

So. Tell them to stop scheduling games at the same time.

 

[Bjo187]

So. Tell them to stop scheduling games at the same time.

I don't agree with it, but like the grand final, they won't change it until they start losing the tv ratings battle, which they aren't, despite what Peter v'landy's and all the leagiues tell you (after using their secret herbs and spices mix to come out with a win).

 

[PhatBoy]

I don't agree with it, but like the grand final, they won't change it until they start losing the tv ratings battle, which they aren't, despite what Peter v'landy's and all the leagiues tell you (after using their secret herbs and spices mix to come out with a win).

Either way, who cares. It’s not costing the nrl any money. What does it matter. Bragging rights in a kindergarten big d**k contest??

Im not going to suddenly start spending more time watching one over the other because there’s bigger crowds at the afl or there’s higher ratings in one or the other

 

[Bjo187]

Either way, who cares. It’s not costing the nrl any money. What does it matter. Bragging rights in a kindergarten big d**k contest??

Im not going to suddenly start spending more time watching one over the other because there’s bigger crowds at the afl or there’s higher ratings in one or the other

Well the reality of the matter does cost them money, it's why the afl gets 1/3rd more for their tv rights, or over 200 mill a year more from next year. In the meantime, all the NRL fans can't figure out why, coz like yourself, they've believed the lie from the nrl and Sydney media that 'they get more tv viewers' and have been pedaling it online for years.

It matters because it feeds into the negative perception of the giants and effects the respect they recieve and potential growth they get in a tough market. If it doesn't matter, why do you think they bother misleading the public on this stuff?

 

[PhatBoy]

Well the reality of the matter does cost them money, it's why the afl gets 1/3rd more for their tv rights, or over 200 mill a year more from next year. In the meantime, all the NRL fans can't figure out why, coz like yourself, they've believed the lie from the nrl and Sydney media that 'they get more tv viewers' and have been pedaling it online for years.

It matters because it feeds into the negative perception of the giants and effects the respect they recieve and potential growth they get in a tough market. If it doesn't matter, why do you think they bother misleading the public on this stuff?

One of the primary reasons, honestly, is simply what I mentioned above: yes of course there are some business interests involved but half of it is simply being able to pump up what you’re doing. Gordon Tallis doesn’t care what’s making more money. He’s a meathead who likes being able to brag about the game he played who still thinks of afl as aerial ping pong.

If the giants are relying on spin to get attendees to games they are doing it wrong. A flag for starters would make a huge difference. They do have fans where I live I know that

 

[Cmarsh]

That’s not unexpected, though. Cronulla are arguably the least supported Sydney team playing a side from 3000km away. They wanted to play in Cronulla where the capacity is just 13,000 and ended up with nearly 20,000.

Interstate side from thousands of kms away Vs side not getting to play at their home ground. Sounds similar circumstances to tonight's AFL prelim.

 

[PhatBoy]

Interstate side from thousands of kms away Vs side not getting to play at their home ground. Sounds similar circumstances to tonight's AFL prelim.

What’s your point? Did you suddenly expect a low drawing team in a sport that consistently draws crowds around 20k to pull a similar crowd to a reasonable drawing team in a sport that draws the 4th or 5th highest average crowds on the planet?

 

[Cmarsh]

What’s your point? Did you suddenly expect a low drawing team in a sport that consistently draws crowds around 20k to pull a similar crowd to a reasonable drawing team in a sport that draws the 4th or 5th highest average crowds on the planet?

Both sporting leagues are based in the same country. It's not as far out as a comparison as you are making it out to be.

 

[PhatBoy]

Both sporting leagues are based in the same country. It's not as far out as a comparison as you are making it out to be.

Yes but for a century one of them has boasted one metric and the other has boasted one far higher.

It’s almost too easy to make the comparisons.

Look at, for example, the two ‘working class’ clubs, the Bulldogs in the AFL and the Magpies when they existed, in the NRL.
Go back 50 years and the Dogs crowds at the Western Oval, a small venue, for a poorly (relatively) supported club, generally hovered between about 12,000 and 25,000.
The magpies rarely broke 10,000 at Lidcombe Oval.
Even moving into the early 1990s when they were at the bigger and better Campbelltown Stardium and fielded a competitive team it was still rare for them to break 10k.

That’s a comparison at the bottom of the barrel for supporter base and ground size and naturally it grows exponentially from there.

None of the suburban grounds in the NRL have a capacity beyond 20k and even in the days before they started to limit that, the biggest crowds they could sardine-squeeze in were about 23k.

So they have always been limited even if there was a time in the past where attendances may have grown (and there probably wasn’t), they wouldn’t have. And unsurprisingly the teams who’s crowds DID outstrip that were Souths and the Roosters who played a lot of footy at the SCG before the Sydney Football Stadium existed - but even they (the roosters: Souths had moved to Redfern later on) had dropped off later on the century before the Sydney Footy Stadium was built.


The things they have directly in common for the comparison is that they are in the same country and that they are both based with half their teams in one city.

AFL always has and always will have a significantly higher crowd pull, it’s the nature of the game and the tribal religious following it has. League has its nutcases who will follow it anywhere but not ever going to reach those levels albeit the crowds are growing steadily

 

[Bjo187]

Yes but for a century one of them has boasted one metric and the other has boasted one far higher.

It’s almost too easy to make the comparisons.

Look at, for example, the two ‘working class’ clubs, the Bulldogs in the AFL and the Magpies when they existed, in the NRL.
Go back 50 years and the Dogs crowds at the Western Oval, a small venue, for a poorly (relatively) supported club, generally hovered between about 12,000 and 25,000.
The magpies rarely broke 10,000 at Lidcombe Oval.
Even moving into the early 1990s when they were at the bigger and better Campbelltown Stardium and fielded a competitive team it was still rare for them to break 10k.

That’s a comparison at the bottom of the barrel for supporter base and ground size and naturally it grows exponentially from there.

None of the suburban grounds in the NRL have a capacity beyond 20k and even in the days before they started to limit that, the biggest crowds they could sardine-squeeze in were about 23k.

So they have always been limited even if there was a time in the past where attendances may have grown (and there probably wasn’t), they wouldn’t have. And unsurprisingly the teams who’s crowds DID outstrip that were Souths and the Roosters who played a lot of footy at the SCG before the Sydney Football Stadium existed - but even they (the roosters: Souths had moved to Redfern later on) had dropped off later on the century before the Sydney Footy Stadium was built.


The things they have directly in common for the comparison is that they are in the same country and that they are both based with half their teams in one city.

AFL always has and always will have a significantly higher crowd pull, it’s the nature of the game and the tribal religious following it has. League has its nutcases who will follow it anywhere but not ever going to reach those levels albeit the crowds are growing steadily

You're very much on the defence for some reason mate, you definitely love your nrl, that's fine. However, this is a sport that's own management takes digs at the afl and fans pump it up to be number one in the country. 'Australia's biggest sport' plastered all across America remember? Even you brought into the b.s with your 'biggest tv sport' claim. Yet their figures are often garbage and they fling shit at an 11 year old club constantly.

If you're gonna do that, at least be accountable when your 60 plus year old club is getting tiny crowds, the great storm are doing poorly off field despite the spin and be open to being held accountable.

The whole point is, why do the giants cop crap, when Sydney nrl clubs are doing similarly? I don't think there is any reason for that, other than an inherent biased. Or do you not believe there is a campaign up there to belittle and suppress the giants potential growth? The hit peices were flowing thick and fast last week in the Sydney media when the giants were getting some positive attention, you obviously don't read the local media.

 

[PhatBoy]

You're very much on the defence for some reason mate, you definitely love your nrl, that's fine. However, this is a sport that's own management takes digs at the afl and fans pump it up to be number one in the country. 'Australia's biggest sport' plastered all across America remember? Even you brought into the b.s with your 'biggest tv sport' claim. Yet their figures are often garbage and they fling shit at an 11 year old club constantly.

If you're gonna do that, at least be accountable when your 60 plus year old club is getting tiny crowds, the great storm are doing poorly off field despite the spin and be open to being held accountable.

The whole point is, why do the giants cop crap, when Sydney nrl clubs are doing similarly? I don't think there is any reason for that, other than an inherent biased. Or do you not believe there is a campaign up there to belittle and suppress the giants potential growth? The hit peices were flowing thick and fast last week in the Sydney media when the giants were getting some positive attention, you obviously don't read the local media.

It’s not about being defensive it’s simply pointing to this idea of ‘haha hey look at this crowd compared to ours’ - it’s the nature of the two games and has been for a century and people are making out like it’s just been this huge discovery and that one game is ailing badly while the other is prospering like never before when in reality league’s actual attendance figures are as high as they’ve been in my lifetime and possibly ever (I’m not sure about the latter part of that statement but I’m certain about the former having checked the figures recently)


I don’t think there’s any campaign to stifle the Giants growth at all realistically. For one I’m not a conspiracy theorist so I’ll never buy into that anyway.

Of course rugby league wants to protect its territory and not ‘lose’ fans from its own game I wouldn’t deny that but remember Fox has a significant stake in the AFL not as an owner but as a beneficiary of it, hence having its own channel and some of the most in depth coverage you can imagine. It’s only going to ‘deliberately’ paint certain pictures up to a point.

At any rate if the cats didn’t exist I’d get on their wagon.

 

[RedV3x]

Has it lost badly to soccer?

Severely - in the participation stakes.

Not sure what triggered your emotions

I don't like false statements.
But i don't get emotional and start swearing and abusing people like you
just because you get called out as a troll.

 

[RedV3x]

Qld fans are probably parochial enough to do that.

And THAT was exactly my point. Where were the Qujeenslanders ?

NSW fans aren’t.

That goes without saying, but you said it anyway.

 

[PhatBoy]

Severely - in the participation stakes.



I don't like false statements.
But i don't get emotional and start swearing and abusing people like you
just because you get called out as a troll.

I don’t get emotional and start swearing. I just swear.

Soccer has long been in front of rugby league. That has not changed and will never change

One is the most brutal contact sport in the world. In what modern social spectrum is it ever going to outdo soccer for participation

That’s like boasting that tennis has more participants than boxing.

And I’m sorry but accusing someone of being a troll because the happen to approach an issue from a different point of view is pathetic. Take a leaf from the person a was actually having a proper discussion with instead of being so offended that someone can have a measured opinion on two football codes

 

[PhatBoy]

And THAT was exactly my point. Where were the Qujeenslanders ?



That goes without saying, but you said it anyway.

Qld fans are parochial but they still don’t travel. It’s not like they turn up to Sydney SOO games

 

[RedV3x]

I idea of ‘haha hey look at this crowd compared to ours’

Is indeed a reaction to decades of overt attack.

I don’t think there’s any campaign to stifle the Giants growth

Just AFL generally.

Of course rugby league wants to protect its territory

This is the the crux of the problem.
THE NRL and it's followers think they must "protect their territory".
There are only people and people should be free to choose from what's available.
Of course the world is filled with traditional areas of support for various sports
but putting aside climatic, economic factors and incumbent inertia the sporting mix could be vastly different.

 

[Cmarsh]

Hate to be negative about my own club but this trade period is looking disastrous for GWS.

The glass half empty version would be losing up to six players, (Cumming already gone) with no one as yet linked to a move to GWS.

Quite concerning that two quality New South Welshmen in Perryman and Peatling are yet to re-sign.

All this when many observers would still have us in flag contention in the coming years.

 

[PaythePerryman]

Hate to be negative about my own club but this trade period is looking disastrous for GWS.

The glass half empty version would be losing up to six players, (Cumming already gone) with no one as yet linked to a move to GWS.

Quite concerning that two quality New South Welshmen in Perryman and Peatling are yet to re-sign.

All this when many observers would still have us in flag contention in the coming years.

The drop outs hurt but they aren't top 12 players.
Losing role players and experience sucks.
I still hope Peatling stays but we just aren't in a position to pay our role players like other clubs because we have to pay a premium to keep top end talent.
Gotta look for a few guys we can squeeze out of other clubs like Caleb Daniel.
We have also done a LOT of our youth drafting for the next gen...
But I feel you.

 

[charcoalchicken]

I still think north is the elephant in the room, regardless of gws and gc issues

North absolutely should have relocated to gc when they had the chance imo.

 

[Bjo187]

I still think north is the elephant in the room, regardless of gws and gc issues

North absolutely should have relocated to gc when they had the chance imo.

A north relocation to Canberra should be extremely appealing for them, particularly off the back of seeing the success of the swans and lions in their northern relocations. I note in the roy Morgan poll, both are now top 5 supported in the afl, north languishing down the bottom and actually lost fans in the past year.

The Canberra move is most appealing coz it's close, drivable distance, they'd get access to a goldmine of academy players in the ACT and riverina, plus no competition from 9 other Vic sides to attract players. Most importantly, it's a growing city of half a million to grow into.

The afl need to suggest it and if they don't wanna move, they need to find a way to force it, it's best for the game and best for the club itself. Then you can bring in Perth 3 as team 20 and the competition is set for the next 30 year's with good coverage all across Australia. All this whilst strengthening one of the smaller clubs in the comp significantly in the meantime.

Last one, the balance of 9 Vic, 11 interstate is a lot better than 10 and 10.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

A north relocation to Canberra should be extremely appealing for them, particularly off the back of seeing the success of the swans and lions in their northern relocations. I note in the roy Morgan poll, both are now top 5 supported in the afl, north languishing down the bottom and actually lost fans in the past year.

The Canberra move is most appealing coz it's close, drivable distance, they'd get access to a goldmine of academy players in the ACT and riverina, plus no competition from 9 other Vic sides to attract players. Most importantly, it's a growing city of half a million to grow into.

The afl need to suggest it and if they don't wanna move, they need to find a way to force it, it's best for the game and best for the club itself. Then you can bring in Perth 3 as team 20 and the competition is set for the next 30 year's with good coverage all across Australia. All this whilst strengthening one of the smaller clubs in the comp significantly in the meantime.

Last one, the balance of 9 Vic, 11 interstate is a lot better than 10 and 10.

I really think the North to Canberra relocation is not going to happen. It could have happened in the past, but Canberra has the Giants now, and the way North left Canberra for the Gold Coast $ did not endear them as well.

North also has no interest in Canberra, and have only played ONE game in Canberra in the last 18 years! And even if the AFL were somehow able to convince the North board to agree to a relocation, North members changed their constitution to have this decision made by members and also raised the approval threshold significantly for this move. North posters in other threads have also spoken about this high threshold. North Melbourne is not going to relocate to Canberra

 

[Bjo187]

I really think the North to Canberra relocation is not going to happen. It could have happened in the past, but Canberra has the Giants now, and the way North left Canberra for the Gold Coast $ did not endear them as well.

North also has no interest in Canberra, and have only played ONE game in Canberra in the last 18 years! And even if the AFL were somehow able to convince the North board to agree to a relocation, North members changed their constitution to have this decision made by members and also raised the approval threshold significantly for this move. North posters in other threads have also spoken about this high threshold. North Melbourne is not going to relocate to Canberra

Yeah I know all this, I'm saying you can still make it happen if you have the drive to do so and it would be a success for North, Canberra and the afl, so they should forge forward on the idea. It's why the afl and commission exist, to do what's best for the code.

 

[Canberra Pear]

I really think the North to Canberra relocation is not going to happen. It could have happened in the past, but Canberra has the Giants now, and the way North left Canberra for the Gold Coast $ did not endear them as well.

North also has no interest in Canberra, and have only played ONE game in Canberra in the last 18 years! And even if the AFL were somehow able to convince the North board to agree to a relocation, North members changed their constitution to have this decision made by members and also raised the approval threshold significantly for this move. North posters in other threads have also spoken about this high threshold. North Melbourne is not going to relocate to Canberra

North won't be relocating to Canberra, but if they did, they'd be as welcome as any other club relocating (and more than some others).

North left Canberra almost two decades ago. I don't think many Canberrans are harbouring any resentment.

 

[Coolangatta]

North won't be relocating to Canberra, but if they did, they'd be as welcome as any other club relocating (and more than some others).

North left Canberra almost two decades ago. I don't think many Canberrans are harbouring any resentment.

If Canberra doesn’t get team 20 then relocation would be the only way to get a full time team before 2050. I agree with Bjo187, Canberra and Perth 3 together would shore up the game for another 30 years.

But I’d be shocked if North moves so hopefully you guys don’t have to wait another 30 years to get a team of your own!