Preview Hawks vs Saints Sat 29 Apr 1:45pm at UniTAS stadium

[JG22]

The bionic knee is back for them

 

[cooperrules]

Coops is a man of few words, but when he does say something...no one listens.

 

[SK_MD_#7]

Coops is a man of few words, but when he does say something...no one listens.

Like Spencer White apparently being the best footballer to ever step foot inside the saints footy club?

 

[Joffaboy]

This is such blatant bullshit it doesn't deserve any response apart from ridicule.

Stop being such a biased idiot Joffa, you are better than that.

Instead of playing the man, how about looking at the facts.
7 possessions @ 33% with one kick and no marks.
Was smashed in the ruck in the second when he was maybe carrying an injury.

His game was quite simply not AFL standard.
But apparently Im biased. You may be right, I am biased towards the Saints winning and not having a passanger as a ruckman.

 

[#gosaintas]

Love you to tell us how his game went. You can use stats if you like.

Just need to use your eyes. He was very good in the first half.

 

[cooperrules]

Like Spencer White apparently being the best footballer to ever step foot inside the saints footy club?

 

[Crusty Undies]

All nice words but facts dont bear them out.
1 posession in half a game of football, 7 overall with no marks is my worst case scenario for what would happen to Longer.
Lets hope he is at least competitive if the coaches love affair continues, because on his form against Geelong he was a liability.

Why do you even care how many touches he got? In his first half when he wasn't running around amuptated he was a better ruckman that Hickey. Around the ground Hickey is c grade midfielder but you want to ignore that because he cracks 10 touches a game. Do you not see the value in sacrificing Hickey's 10 handballs a game for Longer's superior tapwork when fit and the 30 extra possessions we'll get from it?

Seriously why is everyone so concerned with Longer's disposal numbers. That's like saying Nathan Brown had a shit game last week cos he had low disposals and completely ignoring the fact he kept Hawkins quiet in a personal best season so far.

 

[Louis Slungpue]

Not sure why hawthorn are favourites they are straight up turd sandwich

 

[plugger66]

Just need to use your eyes. He was very good in the first half.

I'm happy for you to explain how he was very good in the first half. He lost the hit outs in that half and apparently that is important even though nearly every bottom club is winning the hit outs. Maybe that was why he was good. We were losing hit outs but winning the game. I suppose those 7 handballs of which 3 hit the target were exceptional.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

The bionic knee is back for them

Yes, I believe there was a top secret fitness test today. Conducted undercover (and in drag)

Passed with flying colours apparently

 

[plugger66]

Why do you even care how many touches he got? In his first half when he wasn't running around amuptated he was a better ruckman that Hickey. Around the ground Hickey is c grade midfielder but you want to ignore that because he cracks 10 touches a game. Do you not see the value in sacrificing Hickey's 10 handballs a game for Longer's superior tapwork when fit and the 30 extra possessions we'll get from it?

Seriously why is everyone so concerned with Longer's disposal numbers. That's like saying Nathan Brown had a shit game last week cos he had low disposals and completely ignoring the fact he kept Hawkins quiet in a personal best season so far.

But even in the first half we lost hit outs and hit outs to advantage. And the next time Gawn gets the ball I'm going to say he was poor. Even Sandilands gets more of the ball and is a much better ruckman. Possessions are important for any player. Brown would have been better if he got more of the ball. At least he kept Hawkins goal less. Longer still lost the hit outs and hit outs to advantage till HT against one of the worst performing ruckman of the season. Hickey has played against 3 of the best performing ruckman for the season and when against a poor one he smashed him.

 

[George]

Why is it knee jerk? Suffice to say I have seen a fair bit of Longer in both seniors and reserves and he is playing the same way as two years ago. He needs to develop his game.

Kneejerk is when someone has been ok and it is debateable that his game wad good or not.
Longers game was appalling. 7 possession for 1 kick @ 33% effectiveness. 1 possession in a half with no tackles.
His rucking was passable for one half.

I want the clubs best ruckman playing and that is Tom Hickey by a country mile.

I'm not arguing that his game was appalling I'm frustrated with the notion that after not playing in the senior side for a year (due to no fault of his own - Hickey was dominant last year) he only has one game to prove himself.

 

[George]

I said Holmes as well, with tongue half in cheek but I'd like to explain that. Firstly, it assumes Hickey is being managed for an injury.

Secondly, although I see this as being the final 'development' season for the club before hopefully getting a whale FA and challenging, I still think there are a few 'must win' games this season, and this Hawthorn game is one of them as they are a very gettable team, and we'd hope for morale purposes we're still showing as a chance for finals even late in the year.

We've been getting reamed in centre bounces this year and this is Holmes' best area, he's pretty good. That's it. Just bring him in to do that.

If Hickey doesn't come into calculations and it's Longer v Holmes I'd still go with Longer just for the simple fact he needs more time in the seniors - honestly we should beat Hawthorn with or without our best ruckman but I feel for the good of the side Longer needs to get games this year. He needs to get some consistency in his footy again.

 

[Mowman]

Like Spencer White apparently being the best footballer to ever step foot inside the saints footy club?

Marshall is not far behind and he is not even on a senior list

 

[Crusty Undies]

But even in the first half we lost hit outs and hit outs to advantage. And the next time Gawn gets the ball I'm going to say he was poor. Even Sandilands gets more of the ball and is a much better ruckman. Possessions are important for any player. Brown would have been better if he got more of the ball. At least he kept Hawkins goal less. Longer still lost the hit outs and hit outs to advantage till HT against one of the worst performing ruckman of the season. Hickey has played against 3 of the best performing ruckman for the season and when against a poor one he smashed him.

First off Longer wasn't actually smashed in the first half, he was closely beaten.
Second Zac Smith is not one of the worst performing rucks in the League, he's a very good ruckman coming back from extended injury sidelines at GC before being traded to Geelong and will get better with every game. Third Hickey actually was smashed, repeatedly. He's too short and not strong enough to 1v1 ruck without third man up and he expends all his energy trying to wrestle with proper sized ruckmen like Gawn. Hickey gets 5 extra touches a game at marginally more efficiency but is so much more ineffectual at ruck contests that it makes no matter. Finally, Nathan Brown had an excellent game. His role is not to get possessions, it's to stop Hawkins from doing so. If you think he would have been noticeably better with 5 extra touches then that's just silly. Much the same as Longer is in the team to provide a contest in the ruck, something Hickey has failed miserably to do for the most part this year.

 

[plugger66]

If Hickey doesn't come into calculations and it's Longer v Holmes I'd still go with Longer just for the simple fact he needs more time in the seniors - honestly we should beat Hawthorn with or without our best ruckman but I feel for the good of the side Longer needs to get games this year. He needs to get some consistency in his footy again.

We need our best side on the park to beat Hawthorn. Anyone thinking it could be easy may again be disappointed after the event. No wonder people think we have been disappointing this year if some overrate us.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

That's no excuse as it's Tuesday, Wednesday & Thursday. Then while I'm down I'm heading to Saints v Giants game on Friday night.

I'd ask if any peeps wanted to catch up for a beer at the game but I'm afraid I already know your reply....

Beers next friday

Im down

 

[plugger66]

First off Longer wasn't actually smashed in the first half, he was closely beaten.
Second Zac Smith is not one of the worst performing rucks in the League, he's a very good ruckman coming back from extended injury sidelines at GC before being traded to Geelong and will get better with every game. Third Hickey actually was smashed, repeatedly. He's too short and not strong enough to 1v1 ruck without third man up and he expends all his energy trying to wrestle with proper sized ruckmen like Gawn. Hickey gets 5 extra touches a game at marginally more efficiency but is so much more ineffectual at ruck contests that it makes no matter. Finally, Nathan Brown had an excellent game. His role is not to get possessions, it's to stop Hawkins from doing so. If you think he would have been noticeably better with 5 extra touches then that's just silly. Much the same as Longer is in the team to provide a contest in the ruck, something Hickey has failed miserably to do for the most part this year.

Firstly who said he was smashed in the first half? And Smith is a poor ruckman. And Smith is a poor ruckman and not even close to Gawn, Grundy or Martin. And if Hickey is to short then what is Longer. They are the same height. And only Gawn Smashed Hickey. You can use words all you like but they are wasted when they are crap words. And there isn't a player in the AFL who has a role not to get possessions. Surely you do watch the game or do you just read about it?

Can I say those words mean very little but its an expressive fictional story

 

[Crusty Undies]

Firstly who said he was smashed in the first half? And Smith is a poor ruckman. And Smith is a poor ruckman and not even close to Gawn, Grundy or Martin. And if Hickey is to short then what is Longer. They are the same height. And only Gawn Smashed Hickey. You can use words all you like but they are wasted when they are crap words. And there isn't a player in the AFL who has a role not to get possessions. Surely you do watch the game or do you just read about it?

Can I say those words mean very little but its an expressive fictional story

LMAO. You said he was smashed, I replied with not in the first half when he was fit.

Again, Smith is actually not a poor ruckman and if he's better than Longer as you seem to think he's a damn sight ahead of Hickey as it cirrently stands with no third man up.

Longer is also to short but notice I said Hickey is not tall enough AND not strong enough. Longer is strong enough.

And whether you like to admit it or not there are without a doubt players whose role is not to get possessions but get them as an add on to doing their job. These include most key backs some back pockets and the occasional forward pocket played as a stopper not to mention taggers.

No you can't say.

 

[Murraj1966]

When we're shit in midfield like we are, winning the clearances should be more valuable than Hickey being a bit better around the ground.

I'm in the Longer camp until Hickey proves he can win in the ruck vs a first choice ruck or the 3rd man rule changes

 

[Joffaboy]

Why do you even care how many touches he got? In his first half when he wasn't running around amuptated he was a better ruckman that Hickey. Around the ground Hickey is c grade midfielder but you want to ignore that because he cracks 10 touches a game. Do you not see the value in sacrificing Hickey's 10 handballs a game for Longer's superior tapwork when fit and the 30 extra possessions we'll get from it?

Seriously why is everyone so concerned with Longer's disposal numbers. That's like saying Nathan Brown had a shit game last week cos he had low disposals and completely ignoring the fact he kept Hawkins quiet in a personal best season so far.

He simply was not better than Hickey. This is laughable.
So now stats dont count even though you used stats (ToG) in an endless argument with Rors.

Simply Longer does not do enough around the ground. His rucking wad OK in the first but not up to it in the second. That coupled with his non existence in general play effectively meant we were a player down.
If you think all a ruckman needs to do is tap the ball (which is so far from the truth it is not funny) and nothing else, then the better option is Holmes who is a better tap ruck than both of them.

If Longer is selected tonight, I will support him, but he bloody well be better than against Geelong.
If we are fair dinkum and want to win we should put our best ruckman in who is Hickey.

 

[#gosaintas]

Firstly who said he was smashed in the first half? And Smith is a poor ruckman. And Smith is a poor ruckman and not even close to Gawn, Grundy or Martin. And if Hickey is to short then what is Longer. They are the same height. And only Gawn Smashed Hickey. You can use words all you like but they are wasted when they are crap words. And there isn't a player in the AFL who has a role not to get possessions. Surely you do watch the game or do you just read about it?

Can I say those words mean very little but its an expressive fictional story

Dunstan's role is to avoid the ball it seems.

Longer won the first half clearly from where I was sitting.

 

[Crusty Undies]

When we're shit in midfield like we are, winning the clearances should be more valuable than Hickey being a bit better around the ground.

I'm in the Longer camp until Hickey proves he can win in the ruck vs a first choice ruck or the 3rd man rule changes

This is the point I'm trying to make just more concise. Well done good sir.

 

[Persevering Saint]

hahaha holy shit the formatting worked for me but clearly no one else

Illuminati confirmed... as poor at doing formatting...

 

[Joffaboy]

Firstly who said he was smashed in the first half? And Smith is a poor ruckman. And Smith is a poor ruckman and not even close to Gawn, Grundy or Martin. And if Hickey is to short then what is Longer. They are the same height. And only Gawn Smashed Hickey. You can use words all you like but they are wasted when they are crap words. And there isn't a player in the AFL who has a role not to get possessions. Surely you do watch the game or do you just read about it?

Can I say those words mean very little but its an expressive fictional story

Exactly. It was alternative facts.

Longer was embarrassingly bad even before he copped the 'knock". Smith is a poor ruckman and Hickey was killed by Gawn, terrific in Perth, OK against Brisbane and shaded by Grundy.

Fake news from CU