Play Nice Hawthorn culture and Fagan

[dlanod]

This is going to be a very touchy subject.

There will be a very broad range of opinions about the correct way to handle this.

I'll remind everyone to post respectfully at this time - sniping at each other is not going to help.

Any continued pointless back and forth will get a day or more to cool off. If you want to avoid this fate, let it go.

 

[Gadzorks]

This is day 2 and I'm exhausted.

There's no quick resolution, and there's not going to be a simple clear cut ending.

However there is an opportunity for dialogue and building better environments, no matter what comes out.

It's be great if that could start here right now.

I'm out.

 

[Fitzroy bears]

So the article is based upon an independent report commissioned by Hawthorne to look into the Cyril Rioli case and any others they found whist interviewing Indigenous players. Pretty sure they name themselves, or would actually cast a shadow over the whole coaching group through that period.

Bolton
Simpson
Cameron
Hardwick
Beveridge
Dew

and of course Fagan.
Will be interesting to see what else crawls out from under that rock they kicked over and whether any others are implicated.

Yeah I do understand what you are saying but if I am Fagan, I would much prefer the assumptive shadows rather then my name smeared in the cold light of day

 

[martinson]

No the Federal government are all over this, there will be no white wash (pun intended).

'Inconceivable': Indigenous Australians Minister tells AFL to take Hawthorn club allegations seriously

Linda Burney says all sporting clubs and codes should carefully examine their relationships with First Nations players following allegations about Hawthorn Football Club.

www.abc.net.au

Minister for Indigenous Australians Linda Burney is backing further investigation into historical allegations against coaching staff at Hawthorn Football Club. "It is inconceivable in this day and age … the allegations that have been made by the players involved, the families involved, the communities involved with the Hawthorn Football Club," she said.
Ms Burney has spoken with AFL boss Gillon McLachlan and social policy and inclusion lead Tanya Hosch regarding the subsequent investigation the AFL ordered into the club.

"The discussions were around what the AFL was going to immediately do and that is, of course, the investigation that Gill McLachlan announced today," she said.

"He also made a commitment to keep me abreast of those investigations, which I welcome. This has to be taken seriously."

i.e. Get ready for a long and exhaustive process.

 

[Saucery]

Yeah I do understand what you are saying but if I am Fagan, I would much prefer the assumptive shadows rather then my name smeared in the cold light of day

Yes I agree I would feel like that if I was either of them but better now than when the next report is tabled during preseason.

 

[Big Sauce 21]

This is day 2 and I'm exhausted.

There's no quick resolution, and there's not going to be a simple clear cut ending.

However there is an opportunity for dialogue and building better environments, no matter what comes out.

It's be great if that could start here right now.

I'm out.

Thread is feral

 

[Fitzroy bears]

It wasn’t to repair relationships, it was to see if the indigenous players had experienced racism whilst at the club. As the white Australians at the club where unlikely to have suffered from racism, there was no reason to interview them. Now that accusations have been made, another investigation has been launched which will include both sides.

Why have the review if there is no intention to repair or fix?
The intention behind any review is to find the shortfall and fix it.
This issue is not a first nations persons issue only it is an integration issue, which is far more complex then those words would imply
This would mean it would have to involve "white people" too.
I feel we keep creating a bigger devide between us by constantly using separatist label, language and mechanics to fix our( Australian) social issues. Maybe I am naive

 

[Elixuh]

Lol.

I'm sure you can figure it out

Alright. You win, I can’t understand your long winded and confusing posts. Let’s just leave it there.

 

[Section 5]

A lot has been said about the naming of Clarkson and Fagan but not the interviewed players and family

I suppose Jackson could have left out Clarkson & Fagan names from the article
But would he then use words like, senior coach/assistant coach/football manager/developement manager/senior management
Or if not using those titles use "Hawthorn employee" or some other generic term each time

Both Clarkson & Fagan were long time Hawthorn employees Clarkson 2005-2021, Fagan 2008-2016
So it would not have taken long for media, supporters and BF posters to make a link to them be it wright or wrong.
Speculation then starts in the media and eventually names would come out even if just to protect other coach staff or persons not named in article
I doubt it would take a day

 

[Sausages]

Alright. You win, I can’t understand your long winded and confusing posts. Let’s just leave it there.

There's no winning mate, you know that

You believe what you believe and I fully respect that. Nothing you have elucidated do I find morally objectionable ahaha

When all is said and done, I'll still be cheerfully by your side chanting come first siren next year

 

[Sherrinator]

A lot has been said about the naming of Clarkson and Fagan but not the interviewed players and family

I suppose Jackson could have left out Clarkson & Fagan names from the article
But would he then use words like, senior coach/assistant coach/football manager/developement manager/senior management
Or if not using those titles use "Hawthorn employee" or some other generic term each time

Both Clarkson & Fagan were long time Hawthorn employees Clarkson 2005-2021, Fagan 2008-2016
So it would not have taken long for media, supporters and BF posters to make a link to them be it wright or wrong.
Speculation then starts in the media and eventually names would come out even if just to protect other coach staff or persons not named in article
I doubt it would take a day

Doesn’t sell subscriptions that sort of attitude

 

[notliondown]

It seems to me that now we splitting into two groups - those who can't believe the allegations and those that won't.

In reality we have probably reached the end of useful discussion but it's in our natures to hope someone else feels as lost and hopeless as we do.

The vehicle that created these claims was an internal review. It was never designed to be confrontational (between parties) - almost certainly deliberately - so that victims would be more inclined to speak. The magnitude of the revelations changed the scope and nature of that and now everyone finds themselves in the middle of a very imperfect process that took on a life of it's own.

To those in the won't believe camp, all I would ask is that regardless of how we got here, that you give pause to your language and try and understand why victims of certain crimes and behaviors never come forward. Defense of one party just can't come at the expense of the other until the truth is outed. It has to be that allegations can be tested with some degree of trust and faith, and that it encourages more victims to speak.

And I say that without the presumption of guilt of anyone.

We sit here stunned, hurt, angry, bewildered and shocked trying to reconcile both sides. It's OK that we can't. Right now we don't have to. We don't have to reach a conclusion. That's what the process is for. But let's not make it worse tearing any of the parties involved or each other down... please.

 

[brisbanelions]

This is a wide spread issue that needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency.I want to start off being quoting Martin Luther King Jr. ‘I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.’

The indigenous players no matter what club have had to endure immense hurt and suffering simply by the colour of their skin.

I personally find people who act in such a racist way ,ignorant and devoid of any moral compass.

As supporters we should all celebrate the rich contribution the indigenous players have made to the game for they have truly blessed this game we love with immense talent and exciting moments. OUR INDIGENOUS PLAYERS DESERVE RESPECT. We should treat our indigenous players as equals and not as an inferior minority.

If all of us can unite as one, then and only then,can the power of one overcome and defeat racism. WE CAN SWING THE MOMENTUM OF THE UGLY BLIGHT ON OUR GAME ,BY SIMPLY ACKNOWLEDGING OUR FIRST NATIONS PEOPLE,ARE POEPLE FIRST AND FOREMOST AND THEY WERE CREATED EQUAL and THAT HAS NEVER CHANGED. NOT NOW ,NOT EVER!!!!

Look at some of the names below that have worn the mighty lions jumper with tremendous pride. I am asking all the supporters to stand up and stand by our indigenous players and say NO TO RACISM.

• Kevin CATON ,
• Allen CHRISTENSEN
• Xavier CLARKE
• Anthony CORRIE
• Fabian FRANCIS
• Des HEADLAND
• Rhan HOOPER
• Russell JEFFREY
• Chris JOHNSON
• Dale KICKETT
• Gilbert McADAM
• Ashley McGRATH
• Michael McLEAN
• Doug NICHOLLS
• Jason ROE
• Darryl WHITE

I also do not want to prejudge the outcome of the investigation as everyone has a right to be presumed innocent,but if anyone is found to have acted in a racist way then they should be kicked out of the afl and be banned for life, as I do not want people like that spreading hatred and devaluing the achievements and the richness Our FIRST NATIONAL PEOPLES HAVE DONE AND CONTINUE TO DO FOR THIS GREAT COUNTRY.

TO ALL LIONS FANS ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND AROUND THE WORLD , LETS REACH OUT AND GIVE A COLLECTIVE HUG TO OUR INDIGENOUS PEOPLES AND ALL INDIGENOUS PLAYERS AS THEY ARE WORTHY OF OUR SUPPORT.

LET’S BE THE 1st CLUB IN THE AFL TO HAVE AN INDIGENOUS BOARD MEMBER.LET’S TAKE THE LEAD LIONS.

 

[Sausages]

Hopefully, in years to come, we'll look back upon this moment reading the above post, with jolliness and mirth.

 

[Surly Boy]

Behind the paywall...

 

[Tom14]

Behind the paywall...

Doesn't say much:

The Hawthorn review that features harrowing stories from the clubs First Nations players includes information from a Hawthorn assistant coach who has corroborated some elements of the alleged discrimination.
Lions coach Chris Fagan joined former Hawthorn coach Alastair Clarkson in vehemently denying the bombshell allegations on Thursday.
Fagan said he was “shocked and deeply distressed by the allegations reported in the media”
“I deny, categorically, the allegations of wrongdoing by me in relation to First Nations players at the Hawthorn Football Club,” Fagan said in a statement.
“ … I intend to defend myself. It is my hope that people will judge me based upon the way I actually conduct myself and not by what is written in the media. I support and welcome the investigation announced by the AFL yesterday. I intend to participate fully in the investigation and look forward to being heard and being accorded due process and fairness.”
Clarkson and Fagan will be interviewed by an independent panel about the claims.
Former Hawthorn development manager Jason Burt is at the centre of the allegations from at least three First Nations families.

The claims reportedly allege players were forcibly separated from their partners and had SIM cards in their phones hanged to cut off communication.

It’s reportedly alleged Clarkson told one player to terminate his partner’s pregnancy.

Clarkson and Fagan were not interviewed as part of the review that started as a wellbeing check on the 21 Indigenous players.

The Herald Sun has been unable to confirm which allegations the coach corroborated, but the Herald Sun is not suggesting the coach’s information proves the allegations.

The report, including his signed statement, has been handed to the AFL, which received it a week ago and was in the process of launching an investigation.

 

[Sausages]

After Gil's appearance on 360 tonight, I'm resting my case.

 

[BangyBangy]

Doesn't say much:

I think that's being generous lol. I guess we have to get used to this for the next few weeks. There will be a heap of clickbait articles that don't really shed any new information.

 

[Hollow Knight]

After Gil's appearance on 360 tonight, I'm resting my case.

Well, that is somewhat vague…

 

[Sausages]

Well, that is somewhat vague…

HK, you know how I roll:

LIONS
LIONS
LIONS
LIONS
LIONS
LIONS
LIONS
LIONS

 

[3KZ is Football]

Footy History: Aboriginal Players at Fitzroy

FitzroyPete even bobs up in the comments attached to the article.

 

[lioninthesand]

Why have the review if there is no intention to repair or fix?
The intention behind any review is to find the shortfall and fix it.
This issue is not a first nations persons issue only it is an integration issue, which is far more complex then those words would imply
This would mean it would have to involve "white people" too.
I feel we keep creating a bigger devide between us by constantly using separatist label, language and mechanics to fix our( Australian) social issues. Maybe I am naive

…… all I’m saying is, this initial review is not flawed because Fagan and Clarko were not involved. It was to a review indigenous players experience. Then the information was used to have their voices heard and help improve indigenous programs, it unearthed more than it expected, so now both sides are involved and will bother be investigated. There is no issue with that process.

 

[Squizz89]

The couple of main points from Gil on 360 was that reading between the lines there were more alleged ‘incidents’ mentioned in the original report. You’d think eventually these will come out. I got the impression that the 3 published yesterday, weren’t originally captured in the Hawthorn report.

And anyone wanting an outcome on this anytime soon will probably be disappointed. Gil was saying it’ll be at least a couple of months to conduct the review. He might even extend his stay in the CEO role and see it through also.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Footy History: Aboriginal Players at Fitzroy

FitzroyPete even bobs up in the comments attached to the article.

The day we don't recognise anyone of specific color, creed or race is the day we finally get to say we are all equal.

 

[Sausages]

Well, that is somewhat vague…

HK, listen to Robbo's question at about 21:00 and then Gil's meandering response at about 22.20.

EDIT - Gil admits the AFL do not currently know the identity of the persons making the claims. I think with that in mind, requesting the identity of these persons is appropriate.

 

[Fitzroy bears]

…… all I’m saying is, this initial review is not flawed because Fagan and Clarko were not involved. It was to a review indigenous players experience. Then the information was used to have their voices heard and help improve indigenous programs, it unearthed more than it expected, so now both sides are involved and will bother be investigated. There is no issue with that process.

In my opinion there is flaws in that process as I have already expressed but I think we will have to agree to disagree to keep the thread moving forward