NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 3

[Wosh]

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread.
Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the report button, please and thank you.

If you feel upset or need to talk you can call either Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 or Lifeline on 13 11 14 at any time.

- Crisis support for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders 13YARN (13 92 76) 13YARN - Call 13 92 76 | 24 /7

This is a serious topic, please treat it as such.

Videos, statements etc in the OP here:

NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf

AFL Ends Investigation - 'Imperfect resolution' as Hawks probe ends, no one charged

DO NOT QUOTE THREADS FROM OTHER BOARDS

 

[SaintsSeptember]

In my 54 years and can most definitely claim to have been *racially vilified, especially in the 70s and 80s as a kid and as a young adult in the 90s

Words like Skip, skippy, bush kangarooza, white maggot, white kvnt. Definitely intended to be derogatory

*Note, although knowing these were racist slurs, I think back then society had more back bone and didn't go squealing victim at what may be mistaken as mere hints of racism and looking for a place to find to grind their axe. Let alone blatant and obvious derogatory racism like the examples above.

I never lost sleep over it.

A comment such as a joke about ripped jeans is hardly solid proof of racism, regardless of who said it and who it was directed at. IMO that is extremely far reaching.

Yeah I know examples like this are not normal complaints of racism, but it gets all the noise. And that's the issue because Jan and Joe public now think this is the norm when it isn't at all.

But hey impossible to be racist to a white person.

My son had a bully early in the first secondary school he went to.
The kid was at him , physically holding him, saying "say that you'll be a Muslim, you should be a Muslim, come on say you want to be a Muslim "
My son, who had a bit of an adhd issue, broke free yelled back very loudly " i don't want to be a stupid muslim ".
A teacher overheard him , put him on detention, and made him right an essay on racism . :/

 

[South of the Yarra]

So only the worst forms of racism constitute racism.

I guess the torn designer jeans are off the hook then.

Seriously. You just defeated your own argument. If someone has been ripped away from their family and called c$%n, bO&^% and Ni%^%$% whilst it is happening the next time they are called that it could be destructive. Someone being called a name without the background of trauma would respond differently. The same with the ripped jeans. Try living like Mrs R has.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I wonder why so many people hid being Aboriginal

My daughters partner thinks its funny that his school photo is in the local council building.
He doesn't hide it, he's kind of "whatever" about it.
He ticks the box if its on the form.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Seriously. You just defeated your own argument. If someone has been ripped away from their family and called c$%n, bO&^% and Ni%^%$% whilst it is happening the next time they are called that it could be destructive. Someone being called a name without the background of trauma would respond differently. The same with the ripped jeans. Try living like Mrs R has.

If she wants to live in "normal" society ( i have no idea how she has lived , its not publicised ), then she needs to react normally to normal comments.

 

[South of the Yarra]

If she wants to live in "normal" society ( i have no idea how she has lived , its not publicised ), then she needs to react normally to normal comments.

Your comment is akin to what Alan Mcallister said. Absolutely crap comment. Incredibly racist comment.

 

[smish]

yeah i wonder why they were very low throughout the 20th century, must be something that happened.

Interesting, where do we draw the line with what someone’s experienced as racial vilification?

Is it only Africans, Asians, Aborgnals, Middle Easteners? Or does that line extend to Islanders, Hispanic, Southern Europeans? Or does it extend to Northern/Eastern European? Where must you be from to be allowed to have experienced some form of racial vilification?

My ancestors are white and southern European, but were murdered and persecuted on the basis of their religion and nationality. Can they be aggrieved that they experienced racism, or is that not ok because of their nationality and skin colour?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Your comment is akin to what Alan Mcallister said. Absolutely crap comment. Incredibly racist comment.

OK but you say that a lot to a lot of comments.

 

[jannissary]

Interesting, where do we draw the line with what someone’s experienced as racial vilification?

Is it only Africans, Asians, Aborgnals, Middle Easteners? Or does that line extend to Islanders, Hispanic, Southern Europeans? Or does it extend to Northern/Eastern European? Where must you be from to be allowed to have experienced some form of racial vilification?

My ancestors are white and southern European, but were murdered and persecuted on the basis of their religion and nationality. Can they be aggrieved that they experienced racism, or is that not ok because of their nationality and skin colour?

it's not that it's bad but like, what's the point of the comment? how i personally wasn't affected by non systemic racism that i faced when i was younger?

it's dumb, it serves no purpose other than self-masturbatory wank

 

[smish]

it's not that it's bad but like, what's the point of the comment? how i personally wasn't affected by non systemic racism that i faced when i was younger?

it's dumb, it serves no purpose other than self-masturbatory wank

What?

 

[jannissary]

What?

the message that i was responding to, it's a waste

 

[South of the Yarra]

OK but you say that a lot to a lot of comments.

No, I just say it to racist comments.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

No, I just say it to racist comments.

No, I just say it to racist comments.

Explain to the ignorant, what was racist about it.

 

[JackOutback]

Explain to the ignorant, what was racist about it.

Mate, you basically said if she wants to live in ‘normal’ society (your normal, white perhaps?), she needs to respond normally (white) to normal (white) comments. You’re setting the framework that she has to abide by. It’s a bit shit.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Mate, you basically said if she wants to live in ‘normal’ society (your normal, white perhaps?), she needs to respond normally (white) to normal (white) comments. You’re setting the framework that she has to abide by. It’s a bit shit.

We all live by a framework.
Most of us have little say in it.

 

[sr36]

Your comment is akin to what Alan Mcallister said. Absolutely crap comment. Incredibly racist comment.

I was going to reference McAllister too.

 

[Ricketz]

Interesting, where do we draw the line with what someone’s experienced as racial vilification?

Is it only Africans, Asians, Aborgnals, Middle Easteners? Or does that line extend to Islanders, Hispanic, Southern Europeans? Or does it extend to Northern/Eastern European? Where must you be from to be allowed to have experienced some form of racial vilification?

My ancestors are white and southern European, but were murdered and persecuted on the basis of their religion and nationality. Can they be aggrieved that they experienced racism, or is that not ok because of their nationality and skin colour?

Of course they can, you tool.

If they don't, it doesn't give you - you pretentious twat - the right to minimise the reactions of others who experience racism.

 

[Ricketz]

We all live by a framework.
Most of us have little say in it.

I don't know which of your previous comments is the most pathetic. Probably this one.

 

[smish]

Of course they can, you tool.

If they don't, it doesn't give you - you pretentious twat - the right to minimise the reactions of others who experience racism.

There’s no need for the insults and name calling. Can I ask what specifically about my post is pretentious?

Yes, that’s exactly what I was my post was in response to. You can’t invalidate the reaction of others who have experimented racism because of an imaginary line of who can and who can’t experience racism.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I was going to reference McAllister too.

What did McAlister say, something about they have to conduct themselves like white people?
Now its being twisted to "its not ok for white people to conduct themselves like white people" in case they offend someone?

At no point did i say it was ok or not ok for an aboriginal to act in a particular way.
I was saying they need to accept that others may say and do things, not intended to insult them, and they shouldn't worry about that.

That attitude comes back to , "best not to interact , because i'll be on eggshells ".

Surely any understanding between different cultures needs to be a two way street.

But hey, i'm sure that trying to trap people into being racist is a fun game.

 

[sr36]

What did McAlister say, something about they have to conduct themselves like white people?
Now its being twisted to "its not ok for white people to conduct themselves like white people" in case they offend someone?

At no point did i say it was ok or not ok for an aboriginal to act in a particular way.
I was saying they need to accept that others may say and do things, not intended to insult them, and they shouldn't worry about that.

That attitude comes back to , "best not to interact , because i'll be on eggshells ".

I'm going to ignore the race elements. Do you get the context? If you do you're being ridiculous.

Walking on eggs shells, or hiding in a cave as you earlier put it, in this situation equates to not walking up to the wife, who you barely know, of someone well below you at work and hanging shit on her clothes with an arrogant joke about money.

You're carrying on as though Jeff's behaviour was standard and needs to be protected or we won't be able to talk to each other. When's the last time you walked up to a woman you barely know and started hanging shit on her?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I'm going to ignore the race elements. Do you get the context? If you do you're being ridiculous.

Walking on eggs shells, or hiding in a cave as you earlier put it, in this situation equates to not walking up to the wife, who you barely know, of someone well below you at work and hanging shit on her clothes with an arrogant joke about money.

You're carrying on as though Jeff's behaviour was normal and needs to be protected or we won't be able to talk to each other. It's ridiculous.

Most people wouldn't see it that way.
Most people would see it as banter.
Standing in awkward silence would be weirder.
Jeffs behavior was normal.

He was already in social engagement with the Rioli's, he didn't go out of his way.

 

[sr36]

Most people wouldn't see it that way.
Most people would see it as banter.
Standing in awkward silence would be weirder.
Jeffs behavior was normal.

He was already in social engagement with the Rioli's, he didn't go out of his way.

Well, I must be living permanently on eggshells, as there aren't many woman from any culture who I have a close enough relationship with to greet them with "your clothes look shit" and pull out some money to offer to buy new clothes.

And huge numbers of woman must be offended by things they have no right to be offended by.

 

[phantom13]

Most people wouldn't see it that way.
Most people would see it as banter.
Standing in awkward silence would be weirder.
Jeffs behavior was normal.

He was already in social engagement with the Rioli's, he didn't go out of his way.

Why are the only two options here “shit, possibly racist, almost certainly offensive joke” and “awkward silence”.

Why not “lovely to see you again Mrs.R, how’s the family?” or “how about this weather Mrs.R” or just about anything else that isn’t punching down on a black woman.

 

[gouki88]

If she wants to live in "normal" society ( i have no idea how she has lived , its not publicised ), then she needs to react normally to normal comments.

This is an insane thing to say. May as well take anyone who has trauma out the back and deal with em, ey?

 

[Maddo11]

I'd just like to thank Laura Tingle on reminding me I'm racist...thank you I'd simply forgotten I had that major character flaw....Cheers Laura.

On SM-S918B using BigFooty.com mobile app

If you can't distinguish between "Australia is a racist country" and "every Australian is racist" then this thread is probably going to be difficult for you.