NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 3

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf

AFL Ends Investigation - 'Imperfect resolution' as Hawks probe ends, no one charged

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[The Gulden Child]

And how many were just speculative?

There's always a reason for some people. Arguing the police and judiciary don't produce racist outcomes is like arguing the sky isn't blue. Might as well lump it in with alternative facts.

There are numerous practices and procedures upon arrest to discharge that take into account peoples backgrounds. Police and the judiciary both have to work within the confines of these, implemented via internal reviews, Govt. reports, Royal Commissions etc.

It is considered a death in custody if Police pull someone over and they have a heart attack on the side of the road. Thats how far it goes.

 

[phantom13]

There are numerous practices and procedures upon arrest to discharge that take into account peoples backgrounds. Police and the judiciary both have to work within the confines of these, implemented via internal reviews, Govt. reports, Royal Commissions etc.

It is considered a death in custody if Police pull someone over and they have a heart attack on the side of the road. Thats how far it goes.

Genuine question, is there a source for that last paragraph?

I’ve worked quite a bit with Victoria (and NSW) DJCS and DoH and neither would classify that as custodial so it seems odd they’d be classified as a death on custody.

I’d imagine that death would be included on broader auxiliary figures statistically but not the final death in custody figure.

Not having a go, genuinely curious.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I think I very explicitly stated i wouldn’t say can’t.

Your experience sounds truly harrowing. Amazed you survived

Harrowing?

Most certainly not, like I said never lost sleep over it.

Point being way less blatant comments these days, yet people play victim like the sky has fallen in.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Thanks for contributing nothing to the thread with this

Mine is completely relevant to the thread, yours is just a salty dig at me.

Enjoy your offence that you've taken.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Harrowing, did they call you skip as they tore you away from your family, never to see them again and r*ped your mother?

How do you conflate that I didn't lose sleep over it with harrowing?

 

[SSSSSS]

Sam's comments in the presser make me feel assured that the club has turned a corner under his tenure.

Racism whether overt or 'casual' shouldn't be tolerated in footy or anywhere for that matter.

 

[HairyO]

If you can't distinguish between "Australia is a racist country" and "every Australian is racist" then this thread is probably going to be difficult for you.

Its a nothing comment. Every country is racist. And in the scale of racism, we are very low on the list.

The fact that we have ripped jeans as an issue shows how insignificant it is.

 

[Carringbush2010]

thanks for sharing mate let me know when your history & culture is trying to be bred out of existence by colonisers

It isn't and clearly wasn't the point I was trying to make.

For all those who are salty that I posted this, you're clearly missing the point.

I replied to someone who claimed to have not experienced racism (or that was the impression I got) that I have and it was blatant and the norm.

Predictably you've all knee jerk reacted with irrelevance to my post like colonizers and stolen generation which I never mentioned.

Enjoy the toys you've thrown out of the cot. It's a reflection on you.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Of course they can, you tool.

If they don't, it doesn't give you - you pretentious twat - the right to minimise the reactions of others who experience racism.

Funny, I've had 3 replies minimizing what my experience was in this very thread in the less than 24 hours. Even though in that post I stated that I didn't lose sleep over it.

But nah, the sarcasm came with 'amazed you survived' etc.

Seems like they're unhinged coz of the reply I gave to the impression I got. Oh well that's on them.

 

[Maddo11]

Its a nothing comment. Every country is racist. And in the scale of racism, we are very low on the list.

The fact that we have ripped jeans as an issue shows how insignificant it is.

Or coaches allegedly coercively controlling their indigenous players lives, right

 

[HairyO]

Or coaches allegedly coercively controlling their indigenous players lives, right

If you can show that only indigenous players got targetted and the claims are true Im happy to agree with you.

You cant do either though.

 

[gouki88]

If you can show that only indigenous players got targetted and the claims are true Im happy to agree with you.

You cant do either though.

Why are you so desperate to not believe them?

 

[phantom13]

It isn't and clearly wasn't the point I was trying to make.

For all those who are salty that I posted this, you're clearly missing the point.

I replied to someone who claimed to have not experienced racism (or that was the impression I got) that I have and it was blatant and the norm.

Predictably you've all knee jerk reacted with irrelevance to my post like colonizers and stolen generation which I never mentioned.

Enjoy the toys you've thrown out of the cot. It's a reflection on you.

So the point you were making was that because there is no structural and historical power imbalance that vague assertions to your skin color arent actually by nature derogatory? And that because you are within the overwhelming majority and sit within the walls of systemic racism as protected that your experiences were not really a problem and not really related?

Cause if so, I agree.

 

[sr36]

If you can show that only indigenous players got targetted and the claims are true Im happy to agree with you.

Modern definitions of racism include outcome and not just whether the action is solely targetting particular cultural groups.

 

[HairyO]

Why are you so desperate to not believe them?

Why are you so desperate to believe them? To reinforce your beliefs?

I tend to believe in the innocence of people until otherwise proven. Far healthier than always believing the worst of people.

Even once cleared you will still believe the claims against the coaches. Right?

So youre not at all interested in a discussion. Im able to believe the coaches did it if proven.

 

[HairyO]

Modern definitions of racism include outcome and not just whether the action is solely targetting particular cultural groups.

Modern definition of all the -isms are now based on feelings. Which is wrong.

Because it diminishes actual -isms which are worth focussing on.

 

[gouki88]

Why are you so desperate to believe them? To reinforce your beliefs?

I tend to believe in the innocence of people until otherwise proven. Far healthier than always believing the worst of people.

Even once cleared you will still believe the claims against the coaches. Right?

So youre not at all interested in a discussion. Im able to believe the coaches did it if proven.

1. I think it's worth listening to and believing cohorts of marginalised groups who have been undermined for centuries (similar story with women and instances of violence - frequently dismissed, often fatally).

2. Innocent until proven guilty is all well and good if institutions and systems are unbiased and fair. They aren't.

3. Define "cleared". Do you think our processes are infallible?

 

[phantom13]

Why are you so desperate to believe them? To reinforce your beliefs?

I tend to believe in the innocence of people until otherwise proven. Far healthier than always believing the worst of people.

Even once cleared you will still believe the claims against the coaches. Right?

So youre not at all interested in a discussion. Im able to believe the coaches did it if proven.

“I’m able to believe the coaches did it if proven”.

Do you mean you’ll believe the victims if it’s proven the coaches did so as the victims claim?

 

[HairyO]

1. I think it's worth listening to and believing cohorts of marginalised groups who have been undermined for centuries (similar story with women and instances of violence - frequently dismissed, often fatally).

2. Innocent until proven guilty is all well and good if institutions and systems are unbiased and fair. They aren't.

3. Define "cleared". Do you think our processes are infallible?

No, but its better than any other system. Usually its based on money, more than anything else. The players got free legal advice and may well even in court.

Even if not, I dont think Cyril is short of money. He wont be hiring Dennis Denuto. It will be a KC or SC.

This isnt some legal lynching of a poor black kid caught with the white Mayor's daughter. As much as so many are trying to make it out to be.

 

[gouki88]

No, but its better than any other system. Usually its based on money, more than anything else. The players got free legal advice and may well even in court.

Even if not, I dont think Cyril is short of money. He wont be hiring Dennis Denuto. It will be a KC or SC.

This isnt some legal lynching of a poor black kid caught with the white Mayor's daughter. As much as so many are trying to make it out to be.

How do you know?

 

[sr36]

Modern definition of all the -isms are now based on feelings. Which is wrong.

Because it diminishes actual -isms which are worth focussing on.

So racial abuse bieng about feelings makes it not an ism...

 

[HairyO]

How do you know?

Look around the world. Show a better system.

 

[gouki88]

Modern definition of all the -isms are now based on feelings. Which is wrong.

Because it diminishes actual -isms which are worth focussing on.

What are the "actual -isms"?

 

[HairyO]

So racial abuse bieng about feelings makes it not an ism...

Abuse is completely different. Read the 2nd part of my post.

But even the meaning of abuse has changed.

 

[sr36]

Abuse is completely different. Read the 2nd part of my post.

But even the meaning of abuse has changed.

My point is that it racial abuse is about feelings - thus it's not really whether or not it is about feelings that you're riling against.