NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 3

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf

AFL Ends Investigation - 'Imperfect resolution' as Hawks probe ends, no one charged

DO NOT QUOTE THREADS FROM OTHER BOARDS

 

[perplexed]

They had to. That's the rule.

A 'rule' they were very happy to hide behind, no doubt on the best legal and pr advice.

 

[South of the Yarra]

My parents were high school teachers and I've hung around a lot of teachers to know that on average (not talking individually but on average) teachers are generally more left leaning in their views.

So the thought that three ex teachers could all be actual died in the wool racists always struck me as barely plausible. One maybe, but three? Come on that's just plain ridiculous.

And I've never seen any behaviour from Clarkson or Fagan to ever demonstrate that they hold racist views. Like I said before Clarko has his behaviour issues but he was painted as a deadset racist in the ABC report which is total BS.

There have been many horrifically racist high school teachers.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Firstly your consideration that "one but not three" is three out of what 200,000? 500,00? Teachers or ex teachers. Its not plain ridiculous, that before you consider group think and the other demographics they tick the box for to be both right leaning and racist (older, white males, wealthy).

Secondly they may not be dyed in the wool racists, that doesnt preclude them for having racist tendencies or have exhibited racist bheaviours.

The qualification is just anecdotal and fundamentally flawed.

Alright then so are both using assumptions.

Me that they would be less likely to be racists based on their teaching careers and you that they are more likely to be racist based on their age, gender and skin colour.

I guess we will just have to base our vie s on the evidence.

Oh that's right there isn't any!

 

[phantom13]

Alright then so are both using assumptions.

Me that they would be less likely to be racists based on their teaching careers and you that they are more likely to be racist based on their age, gender and skin colour.

I guess we will just have to base our vie s on the evidence.

Oh that's right there isn't any!

Pretty sure theres a stack of evidence to demonstrate that older, wealthy, white men are more likely to be racist than other demographics but sure.

They also havent been teachers for... decades? Its just a bizarre qualification.

 

[JackOutback]

I and many will say outright the jeans thing wasn't racist for example.

And you have no basis for making that claim because you don't know Jeff Kennett's mind or have any insight into the interactions he had with the Riolis. You might be able to think of examples where such a comment isn't racist but to claim it can never be racist is just ignorant.

Just as I could question the motivations for defending the old rich white man with a golliwog collection and diminishing the experience of a young Aboriginal woman. But I would never know for sure.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

There have been many horrifically racist high school teachers.

Of course there has been but on average they would be less likely to be racists than the general public from my lived experience.

Any social justice cause you care to mention the teachers union loves to get involved in

So what is the probability that three ex teachers could all be so horribly racist to do the things they were accused of?

Seems very long odds to me indeed that would be possible.

 

[Chief]

A 'rule' they were very happy to hide behind, no doubt on the best legal and pr advice.

I don't know their thought process so I can't say.

But they had to do it.

 

[burge13]

And you have no basis for making that claim because you don't know Jeff Kennett's mind or have any insight into the interactions he had with the Riolis. You might be able to think of examples where such a comment isn't racist but to claim it can never be racist is just ignorant.

Just as I could question the motivations for defending the old rich white man with a golliwog collection and diminishing the experience of a young Aboriginal woman. But I would never know for sure.

Sure, and fair.

There's still right and wrong. Just giving people license to claim anything they like as racist, if they feel like it, doesn't actually help either which is my point.

Your part about 'old rich white man' probably being racist is also racist

 

[Chief]

Just giving people license to claim anything they like as racist, if they feel like it, doesn't actually help either which is my point.

Who has done that?

 

[burge13]

Who has done that?

Read the thread

'who are you to judge what's racist if they feel it is' is a pretty dangerous ideology, as posted

 

[Simon Crawshay]

So people can make any frivolous claims and so long as they're aboriginal, they're right by default? What could possibly go wrong with that ideology

I and many will say outright the jeans thing wasn't racist for example.

Just because you're offended, it doesn't make you right. Weaponizing being offended is an awful norm that seems to have been adopted

If we are setting the bar for racism at a bad dad joke then society has well and truly jumped the shark.

 

[Chief]

Read the thread

No that doesn't work as an argument. Try again?

 

[burge13]

No that doesn't work as an argument. Try again?

Wasn't an argument

 

[Chief]

Wasn't an argument

Yes, that's what I said.

 

[burge13]

Yes, that's what I said.

Pleasure as always

 

[South of the Yarra]

Of course there has been but on average they would be less likely to be racists than the general public from my lived experience.

Any social justice cause you care to mention the teachers union loves to get involved in

So what is the probability that three ex teachers could all be so horribly racist to do the things they were accused of?

Seems very long odds to me indeed that would be possible.

From my lived experience it is those in a position of power which teachers are, who are more likely to be racist:

 

[perplexed]

I don't know their thought process so I can't say.

But they had to do it.

They had to pass to document to the AFL. They didn't have to then step back while others dealt with the damage they had caused. The one thing both the players and the coaches can agree on is how badly Hawthorn have treated everyone. As far as I can tell they have done stuff all to clean up their own mess, they have just been waiting at end of the road with a checkbook.

 

[phantom13]

I think from a process POV Hawthorn probably needed a clearer process articulated before they started the investigation should they start to uncover stuff beyond the scope of the investigation.

Beyond that, i find it hard to really blame them for what they did.

 

[JGreezy]

Firstly, many Aboriginal people need someone to speak for them because they have been disempowered to speak for themselves. You just need to speak to the right person. A knowledge of Aboriginal people will tell you who is the right and who is the wrong people to speak to. The problem is too many claims are not heard, not listened to and not acted on. The fact that people are standing up and fighting for what they believe is wrong is doing the opposite of a disservice. Who are you to tell the alleged victims what they see as racism or not?

Many of the Aboriginal people I know are finding inspiration from this

Many Aboriginal people need someone to speak for them but if you decide that you're the one to speak then that comes with responsibility. You can do something with the right intentions but cause damage.

If these claims turn out to be weak then the wider public won't forget the way that the coaches were attacked. When a stronger claim comes along people will roll their eyes.

 

[JGreezy]

I wish I could say the words I want to, but I would be banned. You have no right, nor do I and nor does anyone to tell someone what they find racist. How dare we?

This is very interesting coming from you...

When I spoke up about the use of a phrase that I felt was racist and asked to be removed in an earlier volume of this thread you said to me, and I quote...

"There was nothing racist about that comment... Stop looking for racism that isn't there"

 

[Elixuh]

They had to. That's the rule.

Yet as has been reported they told the people who participated that it would all remain confidential with Hawthorn. If that is true, then why lie to those people? Put them in a terrible position and as their representative said early on (if I recall correctly) cause a great deal of stress, anxiety etc that their details would be leaked and private information they shared with hawthorn leaked

Regardless of the veracity of the accusation, hawthorn has been negligent at very step.

It’s why the afl and other clubs (even some not involved) are so furious with hawthorn.

 

[Chief]

Yet as has been reported they told the people who participated that it would all remain confidential with Hawthorn. If that is true, then why lie to those people? Put them in a terrible position and as their representative said early on (if I recall correctly) cause a great deal of stress, anxiety etc that their details would be leaked and private information they shared with hawthorn leaked

I thought that issue was the leaking to the ABC, not the reporting to the AFL. Can't recall it all now.

 

[Elixuh]

I thought that issue was the leaking to the ABC, not the reporting to the AFL. Can't recall it all now.

From memory it’s all of the above

 

[the big lebowski]

Firstly, many Aboriginal people need someone to speak for them because they have been disempowered to speak for themselves. You just need to speak to the right person. A knowledge of Aboriginal people will tell you who is the right and who is the wrong people to speak to. The problem is too many claims are not heard, not listened to and not acted on. The fact that people are standing up and fighting for what they believe is wrong is doing the opposite of a disservice. Who are you to tell the alleged victims what they see as racism or not?

Many of the Aboriginal people I know are finding inspiration from this

Is speaking to someone charged with defrauding other aboriginal people a good or bad person to speak to?

 

[Simon Crawshay]

From my lived experience it is those in a position of power which teachers are, who are more likely to be racist:

You are so far off it's actually funny

The teachers union is one of the most left wing organisations in Australia!

According to you all those teachers that matched in the BLM protests, Free Palestine marches, etc, etc are all closet racists?

I don't think I can think off another professional organisation in Australia who are more politically aligned with the left (maybe the civil service in Canberra).

You strike me as someone who looks for racism where none exists as is the case with this whole sorry saga.