NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[Ricketz]

I did read and unlike most … said I was wrong.

I'll remove my comment.

 

[sr36]

It depends, if she was raised in Japan she would be Japanese, what's your point?

More complex than that. I raised my children in Asia for most of their childhood. They're Australian.

Race is a series of genetic markers commonly shared within a group, which is gradually becoming irrelevant due to globalisation and inter-racial breeding.

Culture is a series of behavioural and belief related markers. Someone's culture is what they identify with and what they believe and how they live and is often not related to geography.

Australia used to talk about multi culturalism, but most really meant multiracialism, as the dream was people from a variety of different racial backgrounds all becoming "Aussie". We've begun to move into a less arrogant embracing of true multiculturalism, where there is space for a variety of cultures, and not just a variety of races.

It's the acceptance of other cultures, rather than the acceptance of race, where we still have a long way to go.

 

[mcnulty]

However, in this case, they're trying to rush through an inquiry with a timeline that isn't suited to the natural justice that they're claiming as a goal. It looks like a timeline designed to satisfy North and Brisbane's desire to have a clear resolution one way or the other before the bulk of preseason.

There has been pressure for the AFL to act. You’ve seen many in here accuse them of failing to act, and waiting will only fuel accusations that that they are trying to dismiss this. And surely Clarkson and Fagan deserve some sort of timely hearing. They’ve been publicly accused- how long should they have to wait.

Again, we are at we’re at because of them going public in the manner they did.

What exactly do you suggest happens next?

 

[Ricketz]

More complex than that. I raised my children in Asia for most of their childhood. They're Australian.

Race is a series of genetic markers commonly shared within a group, which is gradually becoming irrelevant due to globalisation and inter-racial breeding.

Culture is a series of behavioural and belief related markers. Someone's culture is what they identify with and what they believe and how they live and is often not related to geography.

Australia used to talk about multi culturalism, but most really meant multiracialism, as the dream was people from a variety of different racial backgrounds all becoming "Aussie". We've begun to move into a less arrogant embracing of true multiculturalism, where there is space for a variety of cultures, and not just a variety of races.

It's the acceptance of other cultures, rather than the acceptance of race, where we still have a long way to go.

I am not saying that she necessarily would be. But she could be. Even more complex, she could be an Australian-Japanese or Japanese-Australian with a mixture of both cultures and both physical traits. I just used it as an offhand example.

Race is also used as a reason to dismiss culture, and culture is used to dismiss race. For example, Nickoo's comment regarding Tess Napaljarri Ross and the subsequent reply earlier on in this thread.

 

[Ricketz]

There has been pressure for the AFL to act. You’ve seen many in here accuse them of failing to act, and waiting will only fuel accusations that that they are trying to dismiss this. And surely Clarkson and Fagan deserve some sort of timely hearing. They’ve been publicly accused- how long should they have to wait.

Again, we are at we’re at because of them going public in the manner they did.

What exactly do you suggest happens next?

We're at where we are at because of the Hawthorn review. Nice try to victim blame.

 

[mcnulty]

We're at where we are at because of the Hawthorn review. Nice try to victim blame.

Victim blame… you really are a struggler. They were ready to go with their story to the media a month ago, but apparently not ready to go to an inquiry now. That’s on them.

 

[blackshadow]

We're at where we are at because of the Hawthorn review. Nice try to victim blame.

Partially.

We are where we are with the AFL being pressured to act because Rusty dropped his half-baked story without having the nous to know that it would blow up in his face and most likely adversely impact the very people he’s trying to help.

The AFL has acted taking into account all parties involved while Rusty had no regard for the big picture. As a result those who made the allegations have been left standing with their dicks in their hands and not sure what to do next.

 

[sr36]

There has been pressure for the AFL to act. You’ve seen many in here accuse them of failing to act, and waiting will only fuel accusations that that they are trying to dismiss this. And surely Clarkson and Fagan deserve some sort of timely hearing. They’ve been publicly accused- how long should they have to wait.

Again, we are at we’re at because of them going public in the manner they did.

What exactly do you suggest happens next?

Show me a legal case that is not completely straight forward that is done and dusted within 3 months of a grievance being made?

 

[mcnulty]

Show me a legal case that is not completely straight forward that is done and dusted within 3 months of a grievance being made?

This is not a legal case. Sure though, let’s get it into the courts. They have that option if they are not satisfied.

 

[sr36]

This is not a legal case. Sure though, let’s get it into the courts. They have that option if they are not satisfied.

Rather than legal, I probably should have said an inquiry into management and governance. It is a bloody short time frame compared to a standard inquiry. Are they more interested in natural justice or in the practical considerations for North and Brisbane? We're both just guessing, but it doesn't look good to me.

 

[blackshadow]

Who is pressuring the AFL to act?

Why would you say the people involved are standing with their dicks in their hands? The terms of reference were only released yesterday, the investigation hasn't even started, they are under no obligation to follow that course of action, and you don't even know what they have decided.

Your comment is a classic example of racism. Disgusting.

Stop confusing reality with racism.

You play the racism card when you’ve got nothing left.

 

[sr36]

I am not saying that she necessarily would be. But she could be. Even more complex, she could be an Australian-Japanese or Japanese-Australian with a mixture of both cultures and both physical traits. I just used it as an offhand example.

Many of us are third culture kids in one way shape or form. And cultures themselves are too, as they change and adjust over time and due to contact with other cultures.

 

[QuietB]

Who is pressuring the AFL to act?

Why would you say the people involved are standing with their dicks in their hands? The terms of reference were only released yesterday, the investigation hasn't even started, they are under no obligation to follow that course of action, and you don't even know what they have decided.

Your comment is a classic example of racism. Disgusting.

How is it racism? The article was a hit job. The author was either complicit or ignorant.

 

[Ricketz]

Many of us are third culture kids in one way shape or form. And cultures themselves are too, as they change and adjust over time and due to contact with other cultures.

I am one of those myself.

 

[Ricketz]

How is it racism? The article was a hit job. The author was either complicit or ignorant.

Look at your pre-judgement of the people involved, connect it the subject they are alleging, and figure it out yourself.

 

[sr36]

I am one of those myself.

I wouldn't call myself that, but I certainly experienced culture shock after returning to Australia after a long time living overseas.

 

[QuietB]

Look at your pre-judgement of the people involved, connect it the subject they are alleging, and figure it out yourself.

And what if that pre-judgement is based on facts?

This is not as clear cut as you would like to make out.

 

[Makeshift Park]

The report will be prepared by the Investigation Panel and will be released publicly. It will set out:

• The Panel’s findings as to whether the inappropriate conduct occurred and, if so, the circumstances in which such conduct occurred.
• Recommendations as to whether any persons who engaged in, were involved in and/or were aware of any inappropriate conduct should, in the view of the Investigation Panel, be subject to disciplinary action which would be undertaken pursuant to a separate process under AFL Rules

Does anyone who knows more about internal AFL policies than I do want to have a stab at how they'll seek to define "inappropriate conduct"?
What kind of relevant commitments does a coach have to make to gain AFL accreditation?

I found a 6 year old AFL coaches code of conduct brochure - but it reads a bit more like an aspirational "I promise to be a good scout" wishlist than an exhaustive list of actual rules that would apply in situations where serious wrongdoing is alleged.

 

[blackshadow]

The reality is that the lawyer representing some of those that gave interviews to Rusty has had a massive public hissy fit at the AFL enquiry. Obviously they’re not on board with the AFL enquiry as they have stated that they may choose not to participate.

The AFL was pressured to investigate the claims because of the widespread publicity from the Jackson story.

The AFL has a responsibility to far more stakeholders than the complainants. Those stakeholders include at least three football clubs and three individuals who’ve had their reputations trashed without any redress.

There’s absolutely nothing racist in my take. It’s harsh reality.

 

[Ricketz]

And what if that pre-judgement is based on facts?

This is not as clear cut as you would like to make out.

We have already well and truly established it is NOT based on facts.

 

[faible]

The reality is that the lawyer representing some of those that gave interviews to Rusty has had a massive public hissy fit at the AFL enquiry. Obviously they’re not on board with the AFL enquiry as they have stated that they may choose not to participate.

The AFL was pressured to investigate the claims because of the widespread publicity from the Jackson story.

The AFL has a responsibility to far more stakeholders than the complainants. Those stakeholders include at least three football clubs and three individuals who’ve had their reputations trashed without any redress.

There’s absolutely nothing racist in my take. It’s harsh reality.

There's a certain irony here;

 

[QuietB]

Is there any point in me asking you to pony up the facts? Knowing true well that you can't have any of the facts, given that nobody except Jackson and their lawyer knows their identities.

We have already well and truly established it is NOT based on facts.

Seriously WTF

 

[Ricketz]

Seriously WTF

Please do enlighten us all on how they are making these judgements.

 

[sr36]

The reality is that the lawyer representing some of those that gave interviews to Rusty has had a massive public hissy fit at the AFL enquiry. Obviously they’re not on board with the AFL enquiry as they have stated that they may choose not to participate.

The AFL was pressured to investigate the claims because of the widespread publicity from the Jackson story.

The AFL has a responsibility to far more stakeholders than the complainants. Those stakeholders include at least three football clubs and three individuals who’ve had their reputations trashed without any redress.

There’s absolutely nothing racist in my take. It’s harsh reality.

The issue is that the AFL themselves are in the firing line for anything that occurred, yet they're expecting the claimants to just along with an AFL inquiry with terms, conditions and panel set by the AFL. It should be an external inquiry.

 

[faible]

The issue is that the AFL themselves are in the firing line for anything that occurred, yet they're expecting the claimants to just along with an AFL inquiry with terms, conditions and panel set by the AFL. It should be an external inquiry.

Wasn't the whole point of the AFL appointing an external panel that it was pretty clear from the outset the claimants had no faith in the AFL to handle it properly internally?