NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[sr36]

I long ago lost any idea of what your "argument" is on this thread, and I'm pretty sure you have too.

My points have been pretty simple:

Good article - based on what we know at this stage.
Coaches are in trouble.
Hood's comment about confidence in Clarkson's version of events was an error - regardless of the outcome of an investigation.
North and Brisbane are in a shithouse no win position, through no fault of their own.
AFL should have gone external with the inquiry

 

[perplexed]

Yeah nah.

When an outcome is reached after "consultation" with a number of parties, each with different (and in part opposite) desires, agendas and preferred end states....

You can call it a purple unicorn if you like. But it is still a negotiation.

Negotiation involves trying to reach an agreed outcome. Consultation (at it's worst) is just telling people what you plan to do. If you have ever been involved with public consultation on anything to do with town planning or infrastructure development you will know there is no negotiation going on there.

 

[mcnulty]

My points have been pretty simple:

Good article - based on what we know at this stage.
Coaches are in trouble.
Hood's comment about confidence in Clarkson's version of events was an error - regardless of the outcome of an investigation.
North and Brisbane are in a shithouse no win position, through no fault of their own.
AFL should have gone external with the inquiry

External where? They have guaranteed the panel independence. Not much more they can do.

 

[perplexed]

My points have been pretty simple:

Good article - based on what we know at this stage.
Coaches are in trouble.
Hood's comment about confidence in Clarkson's version of events was an error - regardless of the outcome of an investigation.
North and Brisbane are in a shithouse no win position, through no fault of their own.
AFL should have gone external with the inquiry

I'll give you 3/5.

 

[sr36]

External where? They have guaranteed the panel independence. Not much more they can do.

It's an internally structured inquiry with external chairs.

 

[mcnulty]

It's an internally structured inquiry with external chairs.

Yeah…by what mechanism do they do it externally? As I’ve said, if either party feels aggrieved they can appeal to a higher authority. What exactly do you propose the AFL do?

 

[Osho]

Negotiation involves trying to reach an agreed outcome. Consultation (at it's worst) is just telling people what you plan to do. If you have ever been involved with public consultation on anything to do with town planning or infrastructure development you will know there is no negotiation going on there.

Consultation as often practiced is gathering opinions and maybe or maybe not implementing them. We listened, so fcuk off now.

Negotiation in my experience is coming to a consensus via compromise. And parties sign off on it if successful. In the end there are no guarantees it will work and compromises will be accepted.

 

[4cunningTonneTruck]

It was a poor time to bring up that particular meme, no doubt, but for anyone familiar with that one it was very clearly not a racial comment.

I might not agree with the premise of what blackshadow was posting up to that point, but I can recognise that he wasn't intending that particular comment in a racial fashion.

Just because the intent may not have been one of racism, doesn't make it not racist.

 

[sr36]

Yeah…by what mechanism do they do it externally? As I’ve said, if either party feels aggrieved they can appeal to a higher authority. What exactly do you propose the AFL do?

Commission an extenal group and back the **** off.

 

[sr36]

I'll give you 3/5.

I'm not expecting any North supporters to agree with my point about Hood's comment, but I bet she doesn't say it again unless there is a conclusion of sorts. It went against any standard policy of handling a serious allegation against an employee - and probably NMFCs own policies and protocols.

 

[mcnulty]

Commission an extenal group and back the * off.

Pretty much what they have done

• The investigation will run independently of the AFL and the panel will prepare a report by projected end date in December 2022.

 

[sr36]

Pretty much what they have done

No they haven't. They've set the terms and timeline of the inquiry. I'd cynically suggest that both are to suit them. They are actually the ultimate employers of AFL footballers - open to a big litigation case - and they've set up how and when they want it inquired in to and are expecting people not in the industry any more to just comply. What reason is there for the claimants to participate in it?

 

[perplexed]

I'm not expecting any North supporters to agree with my point about Hood's comment, but I bet she doesn't say it again unless there is a conclusion of sorts. It went against any standard policy of handling a serious allegation against an employee - and probably NMFCs own policies and protocols.

She knows much more about the claims and Clarkson's defense than any of us. I trust her judgement, and if she lets him start work, I'll back her on that too. I expect you will blow a fuse.

 

[mcnulty]

No they haven't. They've set the terms and timeline of the inquiry. I'd cynically suggest that both are to suit them. They are actually the ultimate employers of AFL footballers - open to a big litigation case - and they've set up how and when they want it inquired in to and are expecting people not in the industry any more to just comply. What reason is there for the claimants to participate in it?

Someone has to set the terms. It’s currently in their jurisdiction. You need to be more precise with what you actually want.

 

[sr36]

She knows much more about the claims and Clarkson's defense than any of us. I trust her judgement, and if she lets him start work, I'll back her on that too. I expect you will blow a fuse.

I'm happy for him to start work. I don't think he currently poses a risk - that's when I think someone should be stood down subject to an investigation. My fuses will remain intact - there will be a heap of fuses blown though. It's going to be a bloody tough can't win decision for North.

She certainly would know a lot more about Clarko's version of events, but it's not about her judgement of the events - it's about her judgement to comment - it just goes against what you do in her situation before the claims have been investigated. But enough on that, it's been done to death.

 

[blackshadow]

She knows much more about the claims and Clarkson's defense than any of us. I trust her judgement, and if she lets him start work, I'll back her on that too. I expect you will blow a fuse.

Well said.

I can’t wait for a few blown fuses.

 

[Chief]

or maybe toxic ex-employees/partners grinding an axe. Lots of scenarios where these guys aren’t quite as heinous as the untested allegations suggest. Or they could be worse.

Or maybe others not speaking up to incriminate themselves?

Tons of possibilities.

Some of the possible scenarios don't even support the idea that North should get their coach!

Crazy, right?

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

This inquirey is a farce and one sided if the compainants don't trust it.
McLoughlan has pre-empted the result as well.

 

[The Warlord]

I'm not expecting any North supporters to agree with my point about Hood's comment, but I bet she doesn't say it again unless there is a conclusion of sorts. It went against any standard policy of handling a serious allegation against an employee - and probably NMFCs own policies and protocols.

Clarkson isn't an employed at North until Nov 1.

Pretty gutsy of you to post about Sonja given her demonstrated form in dealing with mediocre dudes on the internet lolol.

 

[Psicosis]

I'm not expecting any North supporters to agree with my point about Hood's comment, but I bet she doesn't say it again unless there is a conclusion of sorts. It went against any standard policy of handling a serious allegation against an employee - and probably NMFCs own policies and protocols.

Haha you’ll bet? You have nfi. I’ll personally bet she doubles down if given the opportunity.

It is purely your personal opinion of what you think she should or shouldn’t do. Myself and others disagree, as I acknowledge that she would have significantly more information then we do.

Stop spouting it as anything more then your opinion that you’ve made with significantly less information.

 

[the big lebowski]

The more I think about this highly compromised investigation, the more I think they should scrap it.

The AFL should come out and say whilst they felt it was their responsibility to investigate, the differing needs of the parties make it that there is too much compromise and this we are unlikely to get to the bottom of this important issue.

Let the players then commence civil proceedings at their leisure so timeframes, limitations on cross examinations etc are not a concern to truth and transparency. If nothing happens in that space, they have to option of human rights commission.

The accused also have the option of commencing defamation proceedings if they deem it appropriate.

What we have now doesn’t appear to be the best way of doing things.

 

[FlyHigh18]

My points have been pretty simple:

Good article - based on what we know at this stage.
Coaches are in trouble.
Hood's comment about confidence in Clarkson's version of events was an error - regardless of the outcome of an investigation.
North and Brisbane are in a shithouse no win position, through no fault of their own.
AFL should have gone external with the inquiry

Just stop it mate, it was not a good article and Sonja is very confident. She found out who Russell interviewed, as did many of us and the media. The story went from ‘bombshell’ / “heads will roll” prime time news to fizzling out and losing its tone within 4 days as the background info spread.

There are others from the review who actually experienced racism, but those stories weren’t good enough for Russ, all that will come out in the wash, along with Russell’s construct.

 

[sr36]

Clarkson isn't an employed at North until Nov 1.

Pretty gutsy of you to post about Sonja given her demonstrated form in dealing with mediocre dudes on the internet lolol.

You just watch if she makes any more comments about her confidence in Clarkson's version of events before a conclusion to this. She's going to have a lot of chances to, but she won't, because she made a mistake. Even messiahs make mistakes.

 

[Psicosis]

You just watch if she makes any more comments about her confidence in Clarkson's version of events before a conclusion to this. She's going to have a lot of chances to, but she won't, because she made a mistake. Even messiahs make mistakes.

The club isn't going to make public comment now that the investigation is underway & terms of reference are in place?

Wow, massive call!

 

[the big lebowski]

McLoughlan has pre-empted the result as well.

He’s not the only one it seems