NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[Soapy V]

Do you seriously think Jackson and the ABC would go with this story, using multiple sources of the actual contents of the Hawks external investigation, without having their legal types run over the published article? Actually, I've seen your repeat posts, don't bother answering that.

Yes. I refer you to Louise Milligan

 

[HirdsTheWord]

The report was recieved by the AFL in September correct. Only breaks today because revealed by the ABC. How different things might have been if the AFL had acted on this report immediately they had no choice as ABC went out with it. Would have affected finals to.How can you trust this organisation.

September is a bad time for the AFL.

Announcement of TV deal followed by Finals and then Grand Final.

Not a great look they have had this for 2 weeks and a third party news org is breaking it.

 

[Sphynx]

Did they get suspended for a year despite not being at the club at the time?

Will Jai Newcombe and Josh Ward get suspended for the actions of the club a decade ago? No.

 

[SSSSSS]

I think if proven correct Hawthorn as a club need to be punished in much the same way as Essendon did. Many of the key players are at other clubs but the success of the club at that time may have happened due to unethical and ruthless behaviour. They achieved success by behaviours that should not be encouraged which may have given them more revenue, premierships, etc. Therefore if proven correct and I have little doubt it will they should be subject to some of the same sanctions as other clubs such as fines (Essendon received these), draft (Essendon and Carlton have received these sanctions in the past) and suspensions (These may affect North and Brisbane, but could potentially impact Bulldogs (Beveridge), Saints (Ratten), or Richmond (Hardwick) amongst others such as Adam Yze. It must also be ascetained if staff at Hawthorn then modelled their behaviour at new clubs by what they learned at Hawthorn. There is a lot to play out here.

That is certainly a long bow to draw.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Heard Clarkson speak once at a function and he went into the kinda of discussions he had with players, including trying to avoid pregnancies that would interfere with finals etc. He also spoke about the kinds of outside influences they had to deal with (crappy friends and relos, hangers on, substance abuse etc).

Hodge touched on those kinds of conversations today as well. Will reserve my opinion till we’ve heard everything. I don’t think it’s ever appropriate for an employer to tell an employee to pressure their partner for an abortion, but it might still be a very complex matter.

Might be they’ve badly overstepped (in which case they’ll probably be slammed), but I have my doubts it’s as simple as it’s been put.

This. Clubs have forever been trying to get players away from toxic people in their life. Player welfare I’m sure some would call it.
The abortion part of all this seems incredible and i doubt we will ever know all the circumstances around it.
With how upset the players are though I think it’s extremely likely the club have over stepped the mark though.

 

[BartBart]

I'm glad for the current players (not directly effected by these incidents) that this got flushed out before the Trade period.
Would have been terrible for players getting traded to the associated clubs before they knew of it and then were stuck.
And similarly some who might have wanted to leave due to the info that has come out being too late to move.

 

[old55]

Andrew Newbold was Hawthorn President from 2012-15 and is now on the AFL Commission.

Ian Robson was CEO of Hawthorn from 2005-09 and then of course moved to Essendon in the drug saga period. Now CEO of Rowing Australia.

Stuart Fox was CEO of Hawthorn from 2009-16. Now CEO of the MCC.

Some heavy hitters in the Boys' Club there ...

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Cannot get my head around that one partner and player felt so bad about how they'd been treated as new parents that they felt forced to abort their 2nd child. What a completely ****ed up situation to be in, and something that'll scar her for life you'd imagine.
Clarkson, Burt and Fagan should be ashamed of for the rest of their lives for facilitating an environment where this occurred.

 

[nylexbandit]

I think we need less punishment because that may prevent what is really needed, a come to Jesus moment. Like it or not, footy often reflects and amplifies general community views and practices, but can also influence them. If they can use this as a real driver of change they at least get growth out of it, compared to punishing and moving on.

And yes, I acknowledge it should have been obvious to people involved that this was shit behaviour, but I don't think it's that far from the attitudes a lot of people hold, and can be a real teaching moment around the trauma some people in our community carry and aren't properly listened to about.

 

[HairyO]

Andrew Newbold was Hawthorn President from 2012-15 and is now on the AFL Commission.

Ian Robson was CEO of Hawthorn from 2005-09 and then of course moved to Essendon in the drug saga period. Now CEO of Rowing Australia.

Stuart Fox was CEO of Hawthorn from 2009-16. Now CEO of the MCC.

Some heavy hitters in the Boys' Club there ...

There are over a dozen current senior assistant coaches and senior coaches who were at Hawthorn around this time too. Plus GMs of football, list managers, etc.

None at Hawthorn now, so I suspect a lot of clubs would be making phone calls and setting up meetings.

 

[AvantGardener]

Racism doesn’t always work like that. It doesn’t have to be complete hate and exclusion, particularly nowadays. If a Blakfulla with exceptional talent is available, the modern AFL Coach isn’t stupid, he will draft him in the hope he will help him win a Premiership. His recruitment doesn’t mean Coach X holds no racist views, just that he is potentially willing to tolerate it if it helps him he successful. The idea that Coach X can’t be racist because he recruited a Blakfulla is completely wrong.


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Yes I know that and that was my trap. AFL coaches will do anything in the hope of a premiership, including telling players black white or blue what to do in their personal lives.

 

[ChristianBoy]

Is that an acceptable answer? Not the sort of thing you'd forget.

Perhaps you do if it didn't happen.

 

[catpremier 07]

Any comment from North Melbourne yet?

 

[Vindicater]

Yes. I refer you to Louise Milligan

How is that the same. Didn't Milligan lose a defamation case for personal tweets she made?

 

[Royce Hafey]

Added to that, people may not believe they are racist towards Aboriginal people yet hold prejudices around aspects of their culture. Clarkson may well welcome Aboriginal players from what he considers a 'traditional family environment' while making assumptions about players from larger Aboriginal family groups.

Or welcome the latter because of their talent but feel they have to be managed in a heavy-handed and paternalistic way to quarantine them from "bad influences" like their families.

 

[Lord of the Wings]

AFL have had the report for a week. Reckon the negotiations were long over.

its officially 2 weeks, but more than likely it was within days of Hawthorn receiving it.

 

[Sphynx]

There are over a dozen current senior assistant coaches and senior coaches who were at Hawthorn around this time too. Plus GMs of football, list managers, etc.

None at Hawthorn now, so I suspect a lot of clubs would be making phone calls and setting up meetings.

Sam Mitchell, David Hale, Monkhurst were all at Hawthorn at the time, and still are.

As well as multiple board members.

 

[The Nostradamus]

Any comment from North Melbourne yet?

Think we will wait for clarko and his manager to comment before we do

 

[hk89]

Yeah but define ‘right to comment’. If you are given less than 12 hours to respond to a series of extremely detailed questions concerning what the players have said above, you can’t drop a response without at least getting pretty serious legal advice. I know why the journos do it, but they are typically pretty liberal with the idea of what constitutes the “right to comment”, particularly with extremely serious issues.

Yeah, it's a fair point, but we also don't know the exact timeline here, it might have been 12 hours, it might have been longer. Either way it is still false to say they were give no right to comment. "Not given a lot of time to make a comment before publication" may be more reasonable way of putting it, but we don't even know if that is true. I accept the small window for comment is par for the course with the way publications deal with this kind of thing. However, it is also possible Clarko/Fagan were approached for interview when the ABC first started investigating the matter, and not just presented with the opportunity to comment right before publication. Comments from Clarko and Fagan would certainly have been valuable to have from a journalistic point of view.

 

[SSSSSS]

Wont happen. Too much money at stake for the schools. I know one local private school that targets footballers for scholarships and doesn't give a s**t how they perform academically. All they care about is how well they football and how that translates into publicity and extra enrollments at $25K per year.

Plenty of private schools where the groundskeepers make vastly more in salary than the teachers.

Priority #1.

 

[Occidental]

Wont happen. Too much money at stake for the schools. I know one local private school that targets footballers for scholarships and doesn't give a s**t how they perform academically. All they care about is how well they football and how that translates into publicity and extra enrollments at $25K per year.

Then that is a system that MUST be changed.
The welfare and wellbeing of these young men is not beholden to the wealth, influence and competition between elite schools.
That system you describe, is broken.
The progression is straight to those schools at 15, then to the Draft at 18.
No wonder those in power think they can exploit every part of their lives.
Lambs to the slaughter.

Raise the Draft age to 20.
Recruit young men instead.

 

[Heisenberg_]

‘A place like Australia’ you don’t have to look to far to see how inherently racist so many of us are.

Australia is a inherently racist country and it’s wild that so many people refuse to admit it

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Fagan stepping down is damning on Clarkson and has kind of forced North's hand to do something.

Admittedly I haven't seen anything other the club statement from the Lions, but my understanding is that Fages has taken a leave of absence to focus on helping the AFLIU in their investigations, as he was never spoken to by the Hawthorn independent review people.

There's a distinct difference in stepping down and taking leave. It might eventually lead to him stepping down or being sacked, but he still holds coaching position for now.
Stepping down suggests that he has left the role.

 

[SSSSSS]

I am strongly in favour of stripping Hawthorn of their first round pick this year and giving it to North Melbourne as some kind of compensation for Clarkson.

They definitely deserve to be hit with severe penalties for bringing the game into disrepute.

In what world would Hawthorn have to compensate North Melbourne?

North Melbourne didn't poach Clarkson from Hawthorn. Ties were cut with the club and he was free to walk anywhere he wants.

This is a baffling take.

 

[Soapy V]

How is that the same. Didn't Milligan lose a defamation case for personal tweets she made?

Among others