Analysis Hawthorn rebuild: are they tanking?

[Westcoast88]

In my opinion you got effectively a second round pick for both players. For losing two best 22 players that is basically nothing, particularly when you are allegedly paying some of their wage. I don't consider Stephens or Meek to be worth anything as they are both fringe players / close to being delisted by their former clubs.

Well said, they cant see it mate.

 

[Saint]

I love how O'Meara is some star now

When for the last 7 years since we got him, every oppo fan just ripped Hawthorn for getting him

It defies belief

I think he's an ok midfielder which Hawks paid overs for. Mitchell won a Brownlow and won the Peter Crimmins medal in 2021, hawks clearly paid unders.

Mitchell got the second most Brownlow votes (9) for the hawks behind Newcombe (11) in 2022. O'Meara was the only other Hawks mid to get votes (2)

You can't say that losing Mitchell for the gain of Cooper Stephens is going to make the midfield better. It's clearly going to make it worse. Tossing in the loss of O'Meara and the midfield will get worse again.

Complaining that the midfield already got beaten and arguing that making it worse can't do any more harm is silly. Of course it's going to get worse.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Darling and Oscar Allen leading the forward line. A good midfield without injuries will help. McGovern and Barrass leading the defence, I could go on, but there is more than enough quality at West Coast to make the 8, and they will easily. I have never been wrong when I make a call like this, 100% strike rate!

Darling is a crab and always has been, midfield is garbage and is only getting older. Just like your name, this may be a wrong bet.

 

[Westcoast88]

Posters like you are whats wrong with bigfooty, with nothing factually to offer

They become patronizing and sour

And if we are tanking, what's it your issue, is it because you cant use Covid as an excuse for being s**t this year?

Its only wrong in your mind because I am calling out your precious club which you are emotionally attached to. I know my club West Coast was very poor this year and I am not afraid to admit it and I accept it. You on the other hand cannot accept that the available evidence does point to likely tanking. Getting rid of key players in their primes on the cheap, looks clearly like an attempt to slide down the ladder for draft picks, its disgusting.

 

[hawkman]

If that's the case then they have basically given them away for free. Disgusting list management

No one wanted them without us paying a good portion of their salary. Look at Crouch at Adelaide they couldn't get rid of them and are now stuck with for next season. We took what we could get with him

I think he's an ok midfielder which Hawks paid overs for. Mitchell won a Brownlow and won the Peter Crimmins medal in 2021, hawks clearly paid unders.

Mitchell got the second most Brownlow votes (9) for the hawks behind Newcombe (11) in 2022. O'Meara was the only other Hawks mid to get votes (2)

You can't say that losing Mitchell for the gain of Cooper Stephens is going to make the midfield better. It's clearly going to make it worse. Tossing in the loss of O'Meara and the midfield will get worse again.

Complaining that the midfield already got beaten and arguing that making it worse can't do any more harm is silly. Of course it's going to get worse.

If we are talking Brownlow votes we are bringing in someone who got more than Mitchell and O'Meara combined

 

[FlowersByIrene]

I love how O'Meara is some star now

When for the last 7 years since we got him, every oppo fan just ripped Hawthorn for getting him

It defies belief

He's not a star but he's better than Jacob Hopper (although older). Should have at least gotten a second round for him straight up with no wage paid. Mitchell should have been a pick around 20, with more upside if wage paid. To get a second rounder for both of them combined and to pay some fo their wage is a laughably bad move. While you weren't necessarily going to get better picks for them, trading them for nothing is worse than keeping them for another year and having them support the developing side.

 

[Westcoast88]

No one wanted them without us paying a good portion of their salary. Look at Crouch at Adelaide they couldn't get rid of them and are now stuck with for next season. We took what we could get with him

If we are talking Brownlow votes we are bringing in someone who got more than Mitchell and O'Meara combined

Your tanking just admit it.

 

[hawkman]

He's not a star but he's better than Jacob Hopper (although older). Should have at least gotten a second round for him straight up with no wage paid. Mitchell should have been a pick around 20, with more upside if wage paid. To get a second rounder for both of them combined and to pay some fo their wage is a laughably bad move. While you weren't necessarily going to get better picks for them, trading them for nothing is worse than keeping them for another year and having them support the developing side.

We got 2nd rounder plus a ruckman who is likely best 23 next season for O'Meara. Happy with that deal

The Mitchell deal is weaker but there was no real market for him. If Stephens becomes a decent player we will have done well out of it though

 

[Saint]

No one wanted them without us paying a good portion of their salary. Look at Crouch at Adelaide they couldn't get rid of them and are now stuck with for next season. We took what we could get with him

If we are talking Brownlow votes we are bringing in someone who got more than Mitchell and O'Meara combined

Who plays on the wing. If the promise is to give Amon more on-ball time, the Hawks are going to find out why Port didn't put him in the guts very often (He's soft, but he runs lots).

I wouldn't be surprised to see S.Mitchell going for a full flood-defence and then sprint-up-the ground in attack type of game style. One not suited to O'Meara and Mitchell, but suited to Amon.

They're certainly going to need to flood back as they're going to lose a lot of centre clearances.

 

[Westcoast88]

We got 2nd rounder plus a ruckman who is likely best 23 next season for O'Meara. Happy with that deal

The Mitchell deal is weaker but there was no real market for him. If Stephens becomes a decent player we will have done well out of it though

Meek wasnt best 23 at Freemantle so not worth much. Meek and a lowly 2nd rounder is unders. Keep telling yourself it wasnt. No market for brownlow medalist Mitchell - give me a spell . You wanted to cut as many players as possible that were keeping you from the bottom of the ladder.

 

[tombomb]

Tanking only really becomes an issue when a team is deliberately trying to lose games.

Moving on older players to bring in younger players is perfectly reasonable.

Only issue would be in a few years if Hawthorn ask for extra draft assistance.

 

[hawkman]

Your tanking just admit it.

From the B&F we lost 5th, 7th, 11th, 28th, T30th, T30th, 32nd, 35th and 36th

Brought in Amon who is capable of being top 5. Meek and Stephens could be top 20

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Tanking only really becomes an issue when a team is deliberately trying to lose games.

Moving on older players to bring in younger players is perfectly reasonable.

Only issue would be in a few years if Hawthorn ask for extra draft assistance.

I get the feeling Hawthorn are too proud to ever ask for draft assistance, even if they finish stone motherless last for the next 5 years in a row (which they won't btw, but just pointing out how strong their culture is)

Going to be a rough few years for The Hawks, but they have the right commander in chief in Mitchell to righten their ship.

 

[hawkman]

Who plays on the wing. If the promise is to give Amon more on-ball time, the Hawks are going to find out why Port didn't put him in the guts very often (He's soft, but he runs lots).

I wouldn't be surprised to see S.Mitchell going for a full flood-defence and then sprint-up-the ground in attack type of game style. One not suited to O'Meara and Mitchell, but suited to Amon.

They're certainly going to need to flood back as they're going to lose a lot of centre clearances.

Well we should be used to it already as we were the worst team at centre clearances

 

[Westcoast88]

I get the feeling Hawthorn are too proud to ever ask for draft assistance, even if they finish stone motherless last for the next 5 years in a row (which they won't btw, but just pointing out how strong their culture is)

Going to be a rough few years for The Hawks, but they have the right commander in chief in Mitchell to righten their ship.

Too proud to ask for draft assistance but not too proud to tank and have a racist culture.

 

[Westcoast88]

From the B&F we lost 5th, 7th, 11th, 28th, T30th, T30th, 32nd, 35th and 36th

Brought in Amon who is capable of being top 5. Meek and Stephens could be top 20

Amon Meek and Stephens are not as good as Omeara and Mitchell. Most neutral observers know this. You can cherry pick stats to support your argument all you like but O'meara and Mitchell were better players and deep down you know it but your emotional attachment (cough bias) to this issue won't allow you to admit it.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Too proud to ask for draft assistance but not too proud to tank and have a racist culture.

A West Coast Dan criticising another club's previous toxic and controversial culture ?

Bold Strategy Cotton.

 

[Westcoast88]

A West Coast Dan criticising another club's previous toxic and controversial culture ?

Bold Strategy Cotton.

West Coast did have an issue with its culture but thats nothing compared to what Hawthorn's done, complete false equivalence there. Racism is far worse than what West Coast are guilty of, unless you think racism is not that bad.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

What a deal! You gave up Jaeger O'Meara, a portion of your salary cap and you got a fringe player and second rounder from a finals team, what a bargain!

Meek will be a first ruck, to replace McEvoy, and the second rounder will come in very handy when we have a highly touted Father son next year.

We’ve got a tonne of cap space, so who cares if we paid some of their contract.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

In my opinion you got effectively a second round pick for both players. For losing two best 22 players that is basically nothing, particularly when you are allegedly paying some of their wage. I don't consider Stephens or Meek to be worth anything as they are both fringe players / close to being delisted by their former clubs.

Did you just stamp “I have no clue” on your forehead by accident?

Meek just won the Peel B&F and was contracted for next year, with Freo asking for a second round pick, yet you think he was about to be delisted?

I’m actually not sure on Stephens contract situation, but based on how wrong you are about Meek, I’m going to suggest he was nowhere near being delisted either.

 

[Pavlovs Cat]

OP that is a very poor take. Sam's philosophy on the rebuild is correct, do it once, do it properly.

Like St Kilda.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

You said:
yet you think he was about to be delisted?

No actually I never said that. I actually said he was not in the Freemantle best 22.

You said:
but based on how wrong you are about Meek

I cant be wrong about something I never said.

You said:
I’m going to suggest he was nowhere near being delisted either.

I never said he was close to being delisted.

Nice try putting words in my mouth, this is why I quote word for word what people say, it keeps people honest, never thought Id have to do it to a mod though.

Can you not read who was quoted?

 

[Pavlovs Cat]

Did you just stamp “I have no clue” on your forehead by accident?

Meek just won the Peel B&F and was contracted for next year, with Freo asking for a second round pick, yet you think he was about to be delisted?

I’m actually not sure on Stephens contract situation, but based on how wrong you are about Meek, I’m going to suggest he was nowhere near being delisted either.

Meek is a great selection considering McEvoy just retired. It will help Reeves out as well.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Meek is a great selection considering McEvoy just retired. It will help Reeves out as well.

Yeah, I think they’ll form a very good partnership in a couple of years.

 

[Ashman23]

Too proud to ask for draft assistance but not too proud to tank and have a racist culture.

This is the same as me saying your club has an illicit drug culture.

I'm still sure you had a good portion of premiership players playing last season.

BTW, I expect us to not do well and I give you my blessing to fully dine out on it if/when we finish on the bottom.