Analysis Hawthorn rebuild: are they tanking?

[Cursed Cat]

Been through this so many times, but let's attempt a different approach for you.

In 2017 Brisbane won 5 games, finished 18th and had a percentage of 74.
In 2018 Brisbane won 5 games but finished with a percentage of 89.
In 2019 Brisbane made the top 4.

The percentage in 2018 was THE indicator of their improvement. The following season the wins came flooding in and they've been a top 4 side ever since.

Currently you're being given evidence to suggest that Hawthorn are improving in an area of the ground that was a weakness, and the percentage increase over the past 3 games also confirms that improvement is spreading throughout the side.

Quite literally that is all any Hawthorn supporter in here is trying to argue. Your perception that we chose to go backwards (or tank) was simply an optical decision to 'go back to go forwards'. We've actually gone forward in the area of concern (midfield) faster than I expected. The wins will come, whether that be this season or next season. The path is clear however.

Sophistry.

In 2022 Hawthorn won 8 games.

Clearly winning more games in 2023 was not an ‘area of concern’ for Mitchell’s Hawks.

 

[Foucault1989]

Want to point to CJ's performances over the last month as evidence that he is in our best 26 currently?

I don't know mate. Pre season you Hawks fans were describing him as the second coming of Andrew McLeod and now he's dropped. It's almost like players plateau and maybe all the youth on your list would develop in a linear manner into jets.

 

[HairyO]

I don't know mate. Pre season you Hawks fans were describing him as the second coming of Andrew McLeod and now he's dropped. It's almost like players plateau and maybe all the youth on your list would develop in a linear manner into jets.

Can you list who said that about him?

He hasnt plateau'd. His form over the last month has been worse than his form last year. He is still young and in a team getting routinely flogged. It probably isnt easy keeping your intensity and concentration at 100%.

You should know that as a Carlton supporter.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Sophistry.

In 2022 Hawthorn won 8 games.

Clearly winning more games in 2023 was not an ‘area of concern’ for Mitchell’s Hawks.

Day and Newcombe?

Or

Mitchell and O'Meara?

Sam made the right call. Perhaps McEvoy and Gunston leaving outside the clubs control and our only gun key forward being injured until round 7 is playing a bigger factor?

 

[Cursed Cat]

Day and Newcombe?

Or

Mitchell and O'Meara?

Sam made the right call. Perhaps McEvoy and Gunston leaving outside the clubs control and our only gun key forward being injured until round 7 is playing a bigger factor?

Absolutely no reason Hawthorn couldn’t have retained experienced players and still invested plenty in the younger kids.

 

[Foucault1989]

Can you list who said that about him?

He hasnt plateau'd. His form over the last month has been worse than his form last year. He is still young and in a team getting routinely flogged. It probably isnt easy keeping your intensity and concentration at 100%.

You should know that as a Carlton supporter.

You're 100% correct. As a Carlton supporter I've learnt that just because a young player shows some talent doesn't mean they'll make it. Development isn't linear and most, especially in bad teams won't make it.

Hence I suggest caution before over hyping young kids. Hawthorn's rebuild and performance could get uglier than this. Demoralized young footballers getting beaten week in week out, especially late in seasons, can get dark

 

[HairyO]

You're 100% correct. As a Carlton supporter I've learnt that just because a young player shows some talent doesn't mean they'll make it. Development isn't linear and most, especially in bad teams won't make it.

Hence I suggest caution before over hyping young kids. Hawthorn's rebuild and performance could get uglier than this. Demoralized young footballers getting beaten week in week out, especially late in seasons, can get dark

My point was more that young players are going to have bad weeks or even months. Weitering has been brilliant for the bulk of his career but has had bad weeks, so too Walsh, Cripps, etc, etc, etc.

Very few young players literally have no bad weeks. Even N. Daicos has had a few.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Absolutely no reason Hawthorn couldn’t have retained experienced players and still invested plenty in the younger kids.

Which would you have kept out of curiosity?

Liam Shiels
Daniel Howe
Tom Phillips

Or the two aforementioned midfielders who are comparatively being outperformed by Newcombe, Day, Worpel and Connor Nash?

Hawthorn supporters backed in Mitchell's approach for a reason.

 

[Foucault1989]

My point was more that young players are going to have bad weeks or even months. Weitering has been brilliant for the bulk of his career but has had bad weeks, so too Walsh, Cripps, etc, etc, etc.

Very few young players literally have no bad weeks. Even N. Daicos has had a few.

I could give you a long long list of Carlton players over the years we thought would make it...

Delisted a year or two later. Hold fire until they've actually proven their week in week out footballers

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I love that we're back to the "we had no idea what we were doing at carlton for so long, so you guys might not too".

 

[Crankyhawk]

What’s this then?

Someone is lurking on bigfooty

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Someone is lurking on bigfooty

This is something that’s been prevalent in the commentary for weeks, jay just put it to print.

 

[Foucault1989]

I love that we're back to the "we had no idea what we were doing at carlton for so long, so you guys might not too".

Better than "Hawthorn won't need to rebuild cos Hawthorn....". "Draft is overrated "

 

[Dewyyyyy]

What’s this then?

how to read without subscription

 

[Ashman23]

how to read without subscription

https://archive.md/xLBNC

 

[Dewyyyyy]

https://archive.md/xLBNC

Thanks heaps!

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Better than "Hawthorn won't need to rebuild cos Hawthorn....". "Draft is overrated "

Is it though?

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Cherry picking stats to try and prove a point

Good luck with it, I'm out lol

What a bunch of nutters

I dont believe you. What sort of a troll quits after less than a week?

Posting something to get a reaction then rolling out the 'why are you so wound up' line is as old as the internet. Almost as old as throwing out a personal attack as you promise everyone you are done.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

You're 100% correct. As a Carlton supporter I've learnt that just because a young player shows some talent doesn't mean they'll make it. Development isn't linear and most, especially in bad teams won't make it.

Hence I suggest caution before over hyping young kids. Hawthorn's rebuild and performance could get uglier than this. Demoralized young footballers getting beaten week in week out, especially late in seasons, can get dark

Im not sure anyone is overhyping young kids are they? Showing excitement for your team is surely ok?

Carlton look really good now and have a great age profile. A rebuilding club would be looking at both what they did right AND what they did wrong.

Subject of the thread is are Hawthorn tanking. Surely nobody, yourself included, still thinks they are?

 

[faible]

Not tanking

Worried West Coast are out tanking them for Harley Reid.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Better than "Hawthorn won't need to rebuild cos Hawthorn....". "Draft is overrated "

Better than "Hi, We Are Carlton, unsuccessful for 28 years, but we beat West Coast this week, so all is well"

 

[Foucault1989]

Im not sure anyone is overhyping young kids are they? Showing excitement for your team is surely ok?

Carlton look really good now and have a great age profile. A rebuilding club would be looking at both what they did right AND what they did wrong.

Subject of the thread is are Hawthorn tanking. Surely nobody, yourself included, still thinks they are?

No I don't think you're tanking. I've actually been impressed with your competitiveness

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

What’s this then?

 

[The 747]

What’s this then?

Ladder

 

[spudmaster]

Ukraine have sent back our Abrams tanks and requested we send them some Hawthorns instead.