Analysis Hawthorn rebuild: are they tanking?

[Strapping Young Lad]

My opinions & the poll still stand. A dismally coached side in 2022 doesn't change that. I know it's easier for you to deflect to North, but back onto the theme of this thread. Whilst it may be a long tough road ahead for the Hawks, at least now they will get access to the real top end of the draft.

I’m not deflecting to North, I’m telling you that you and your opinion carry no weight, because you’ve proven yourself time and time again to be quite clueless.
So much so, you had to go dormant for large parts of 2022 after blathering on all of last summer with your shit opinions on players.

 

[RUNVS]

I’m not deflecting to North, I’m telling you that you and your opinion carry no weight, because you’ve proven yourself time and time again to be quite clueless.
So much so, you had to go dormant for large parts of 2022 after blathering on all of last summer with your s**t opinions on players.

I have shit opinions but it doesn't stop me from posting

 

[perplexed]

Many of these things are at odds with the rebuild structure outlined by Sam Mitchell and Mark Mackenzie themselves.

It's okay to disagree with their vision, strategy and timeline, however passing off that opinion as a fact just makes you seen purposely ignorant or a bit arrogant.

I don't mind at all if opposition supporters (or Hawks supporters for that matter) believe we'll struggle to win 4 games in 2023.

Except I'm not disagreeing with Hawthorn's strategy. I think it's fine. It's short-term pain for long-term gain. You just seem to object to anyone mentioning the inevitable pain bit.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Gunston kicked 19 goals in the 5 wins he played in, in 2022.

Where are those 19 goals coming from?

Gunston kicked 11 goals against the top 8 last year and of the 19 goals you’re talking about, he kicked 8 of them against the wooden spooners.

19 goals is nothing. Brockman kicked 10 goals from 11 games in his first year.

 

[Psicosis]

Gunston kicked 11 goals against the top 8 last year and of the 19 goals you’re talking about, he kicked 8 of them against the wooden spooners.

19 goals is nothing. Brockman kicked 10 goals from 11 games in his first year.

19 goals in 5 of your 8 wins is significant regardless of whichever way you wanna try and spin it.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Deflect deflect deflect.

Norths youth is significantly better then the Hawks. That’s been established over and over again. You & Dommy think otherwise, great company. Nothing more needs to be said on that matter from my perspective.

You literally the only person making this about North, because you’re a true nuffie.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Except I'm not disagreeing with Hawthorn's strategy. I think it's fine. It's short-term pain for long-term gain. You just seem to object to anyone mentioning the inevitable pain bit.

Absolutely agree that I have more to be defensive about, simply because it's my own team.

However I believe I'd be opposing anybody who suggested that ANY team 'obviously won't be competitive' in an upcoming season.

That's reserved for country footy teams who lose all their players in a pay dispute and have thirds and reserves doubling up in the seniors. Not AFL clubs.

 

[hawkman]

19 goals in 5 of your 8 wins is significant regardless of whichever way you wanna try and spin it.

3-3 without Gunston
5-11 with Gunston

He will be a loss but it is not all doom and gloom

 

[Psicosis]

You literally the only person making this about North, because you’re a true nuffie.

Keep spinning and deflecting, spinning and deflecting!

 

[Dewyyyyy]

No one genuinely thinks we're tanking right?

Lol

 

[Bradkli]

It’s not only gunston’s goals that will need to be replaced, it’s his on field leadership that will be missed more. Especially with how young our team will be.

The recruitment of Fergus greene was a good one and he may get the chance early on to play the Gunston role but he’s no certainty to make it at afl level having already been delisted by the bulldogs.

Jai serong was drafted to play this role but he needs at least another season at box hill if not two.

Whilst we will have Chad Wingard back, the chances of him playing the majority of the season are slim. He will do a hammy or calf by round 4 or 5. Bookmark it.

Other than Mitch Lewis and Luke Breust, our forward line stocks are incredibly bare and bereft of quality.

One of Lloyd meek and Ned reeves will spend time down there when resting from ruck duties. Both are young and inexperienced. Max Ramsden has the potential to make it as a 2MP type but like many of our other youngsters needs another year if not two playing at box hill.

We don’t have another second key forward locked in behind mitch Lewis. Jacob Koschitzke will most probably get first crack but he’s miles off being a consistently good key forward. If Lewis goes down, which he has in previous seasons, we will struggle to kick a winning score. We will have a top 3 pick in the 2023 draft which is timely as there is 3-4 elite key forward talent. We will definitely take one.

The small forward position is also a major worry. Tyler Brockman should return from a shoulder reconstruction but is still not training and will need to come back via box hill. Sam butler played a few games last season but is still raw and is at least another season off playing quality afl football.

Dylan moore would be a perfect forward but will spend more time in the midfield next season. We need 2 of him desperately.

Is this forward line going to worry many teams next season?? I don’t think so.

HF: Wingard Koschitzke Greene
FF: meek Lewis Breust
Bench: Butler

 

[Blackhawk42]

Star players? boy oh boy, long year ahead no doubt.

Their first year as such. 8-14 is about right as a result. Young players announce themselves and we win an extra game compared to the previous season.

Why the perception that new players in brown and gold won't ascend to similar heights in 2023?

There appears to be a belief that every young player at Hawthorn will stagnate next season. There's no other explanation for the 'uncompetitive' or 'tanking' claims. You MUST allow for internal improvement. Sam Mitchell, thankfully, already has more runs on the board than David Noble ever had, so should be given more respect as a result.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Keep spinning and deflecting, spinning and deflecting!

I’ll keep discussing Hawthorn in the thread about Hawthorn.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It’s not only gunston’s goals that will need to be replaced, it’s his on field leadership that will be missed more. Especially with how young our team will be.

The recruitment of Fergus greene was a good one and he may get the chance early on to play the Gunston role but he’s no certainty to make it at afl level having already been delisted by the bulldogs.

Jai serong was drafted to play this role but he needs at least another season at box hill if not two.

Whilst we will have Chad Wingard back, the chances of him playing the majority of the season are slim. He will do a hammy or calf by round 4 or 5. Bookmark it.

Other than Mitch Lewis and Luke Breust, our forward line stocks are incredibly bare and bereft of quality.

One of Lloyd meek and Ned reeves will spend time down there when resting from ruck duties. Both are young and inexperienced. Max Ramsden has the potential to make it as a 2MP type but like many of our other youngsters needs another year if not two playing at box hill.

We don’t have another second key forward locked in behind mitch Lewis. Jacob Koschitzke will most probably get first crack but he’s miles off being a consistently good key forward. If Lewis goes down, which he has in previous seasons, we will struggle to kick a winning score. We will have a top 3 pick in the 2023 draft which is timely as there is 3-4 elite key forward talent. We will definitely take one.

The small forward position is also a major worry. Tyler Brockman should return from a shoulder reconstruction but is still not training and will need to come back via box hill. Sam butler played a few games last season but is still raw and is at least another season off playing quality afl football.

Dylan moore would be a perfect forward but will spend more time in the midfield next season. We need 2 of him desperately.

Is this forward line going to worry many teams next season?? I don’t think so.

HF: Wingard Koschitzke Greene
FF: meek Lewis Breust
Bench: Butler

Brockmans had twins. He’s spending time with them in Perth and had been training along side Shai Bolton and will return in January. He’s not injured or recovering from shoulder surgery.

Moore will play forward. It’s where he’s training.

Predicting Wingard will get injured early asking people to bookmark it like you want to be proven right is just poor form.

Pressure is on Koschitske to take his chances now he’s not going to be asked to ruck.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

It’s not only gunston’s goals that will need to be replaced, it’s his on field leadership that will be missed more. Especially with how young our team will be.

The recruitment of Fergus greene was a good one and he may get the chance early on to play the Gunston role but he’s no certainty to make it at afl level having already been delisted by the bulldogs.

Jai serong was drafted to play this role but he needs at least another season at box hill if not two.

Whilst we will have Chad Wingard back, the chances of him playing the majority of the season are slim. He will do a hammy or calf by round 4 or 5. Bookmark it.

Other than Mitch Lewis and Luke Breust, our forward line stocks are incredibly bare and bereft of quality.

One of Lloyd meek and Ned reeves will spend time down there when resting from ruck duties. Both are young and inexperienced. Max Ramsden has the potential to make it as a 2MP type but like many of our other youngsters needs another year if not two playing at box hill.

We don’t have another second key forward locked in behind mitch Lewis. Jacob Koschitzke will most probably get first crack but he’s miles off being a consistently good key forward. If Lewis goes down, which he has in previous seasons, we will struggle to kick a winning score. We will have a top 3 pick in the 2023 draft which is timely as there is 3-4 elite key forward talent. We will definitely take one.

The small forward position is also a major worry. Tyler Brockman should return from a shoulder reconstruction but is still not training and will need to come back via box hill. Sam butler played a few games last season but is still raw and is at least another season off playing quality afl football.

Dylan moore would be a perfect forward but will spend more time in the midfield next season. We need 2 of him desperately.

Is this forward line going to worry many teams next season?? I don’t think so.

HF: Wingard Koschitzke Greene
FF: meek Lewis Breust
Bench: Butler

Brockman is currently in Perth with twins, he is training with a high level coach and with Shai Bolton and will come back post Christmas.

Moore will play forward.

 

[peetoo]

If the coaches follow Clarko before 2008, there may be games where they look great for periods, but the game and season is too long.

This may be due to persisting with players in positions for too long, as a learning experience, or generall trying stuff out.

But it will be from a positive point of view, not tanking

 

[Bradkli]

Brockmans had twins. He’s spending time with them in Perth and had been training along side Shai Bolton and will return in January. He’s not injured or recovering from shoulder surgery.

Moore will play forward. It’s where he’s training.

Predicting Wingard will get injured early asking people to bookmark it like you want to be proven right is just poor form.

Pressure is on Koschitske to take his chances now he’s not going to be asked to ruck.

HF: Wingard Koschitzke greene/moore
FF: Meek Lewis Breust
Bench: butler/brockman

Do you think that is a quality forward line?? A forward like capable of performing in finals?

There wouldn’t be too many worse in the league.

Wingard and Breust are 2 of the best 3 players and are not getting better..Wingard has played one full season since coming from port Adelaide and it was during covid when quarters were shorter and the season was only 17 games. I like him and think he’s been a good off field leader but on field he’s been a bust. Arguably worse than Jaeger was for what we paid. Another season riddled by injury in 2022 and his hawthorn career will be over.

Breust is quality and elite in his position but in a struggling team as we saw last season, he can play many games without any influence. If he gets injured, who can replace him?

Koschitzke wouldn’t get a game at any other team.

Greene has been playing VFL and has already been delisted from another club. He will most probably play round 1. Would he get a game at another team? No chance.

Meek, who I think will be a great pick up as a ruckman, played the majority of last season in the WAFL. Still very inexperienced.

Brockman missed all of last season with injury. As you have said, he’s recently had twins and been in WA. He only signed a one-year extension. There’s more chance of him heading back to WA at the end of 2023 to be with family then being at the club in 2024. Hope I’m wrong. He has X factor and exactly what we need moving forward.

Butler showed some good signs last year but is two years off being a quality afl player. This position is absolutely crucial. The top sides have at least two quality small forwards. We have one in Breust who will be retired when we hopefully challenge for our next flag.

Our lack of key position and small forward depth in the forward half is a huge worry heading into next season. Let’s hope Sam Mitchell has some left field ideas which I am sure he does. He will need to be creative.

That list above will be our forward for the majority of next season. It’s not as if there is an abundance of players coming through.

Serong, Ramsden, O’Sullivan Bennetts will be playing at box hill for the majority of next season and are a long way off being quality afl players.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

HF: Wingard Koschitzke greene/moore
FF: Meek Lewis Breust
Bench: butler/brockman

Do you think that is a quality forward line?? A forward like capable of performing in finals?

There wouldn’t be too many worse in the league.

Wingard and Breust are 2 of the best 3 players and are not getting better..Wingard has played one full season since coming from port Adelaide and it was during covid when quarters were shorter and the season was only 17 games. I like him and think he’s been a good off field leader but on field he’s been a bust. Arguably worse than Jaeger was for what we paid. Another season riddled by injury in 2022 and his hawthorn career will be over.

Breust is quality and elite in his position but in a struggling team as we saw last season, he can play many games without any influence. If he gets injured, who can replace him?

Koschitzke wouldn’t get a game at any other team.

Greene has been playing VFL and has already been delisted from another club. He will most probably play round 1. Would he get a game at another team? No chance.

Meek, who I think will be a great pick up as a ruckman, played the majority of last season in the WAFL. Still very inexperienced.

Brockman missed all of last season with injury. As you have said, he’s recently had twins and been in WA. He only signed a one-year extension. There’s more chance of him heading back to WA at the end of 2023 to be with family then being at the club in 2024. Hope I’m wrong. He has X factor and exactly what we need moving forward.

Butler showed some good signs last year but is two years off being a quality afl player. This position is absolutely crucial. The top sides have at least two quality small forwards. We have one in Breust who will be retired when we hopefully challenge for our next flag.

Our lack of key position and small forward depth in the forward half is a huge worry heading into next season. Let’s hope Sam Mitchell has some left field ideas which I am sure he does. He will need to be creative.

That list above will be our forward for the majority of next season. It’s not as if there is an abundance of players coming through.

Serong, Ramsden, O’Sullivan Bennetts will be playing at box hill for the majority of next season and are a long way off being quality afl players.

Do you think we’re playing finals in 2023?

I don’t, so I’m not sure why you’d present that forward line and then write a page about how it won’t perform in finals, or how it’s not the finished product.

We all know this.

 

[peetoo]

Do you think we’re playing finals in 2023?

I don’t, so I’m not sure why you’d present that forward line and then write a page about how it won’t perform in finals, or how it’s not the finished product.

We all know this.

At least he’s consistent.

 

[Blackhawk42]

HF: Wingard Koschitzke greene/moore
FF: Meek Lewis Breust
Bench: butler/brockman

Do you think that is a quality forward line?? A forward like capable of performing in finals?

There wouldn’t be too many worse in the league.

Wingard and Breust are 2 of the best 3 players and are not getting better..Wingard has played one full season since coming from port Adelaide and it was during covid when quarters were shorter and the season was only 17 games. I like him and think he’s been a good off field leader but on field he’s been a bust. Arguably worse than Jaeger was for what we paid. Another season riddled by injury in 2022 and his hawthorn career will be over.

Breust is quality and elite in his position but in a struggling team as we saw last season, he can play many games without any influence. If he gets injured, who can replace him?

Koschitzke wouldn’t get a game at any other team.

Greene has been playing VFL and has already been delisted from another club. He will most probably play round 1. Would he get a game at another team? No chance.

Meek, who I think will be a great pick up as a ruckman, played the majority of last season in the WAFL. Still very inexperienced.

Brockman missed all of last season with injury. As you have said, he’s recently had twins and been in WA. He only signed a one-year extension. There’s more chance of him heading back to WA at the end of 2023 to be with family then being at the club in 2024. Hope I’m wrong. He has X factor and exactly what we need moving forward.

Butler showed some good signs last year but is two years off being a quality afl player. This position is absolutely crucial. The top sides have at least two quality small forwards. We have one in Breust who will be retired when we hopefully challenge for our next flag.

Our lack of key position and small forward depth in the forward half is a huge worry heading into next season. Let’s hope Sam Mitchell has some left field ideas which I am sure he does. He will need to be creative.

That list above will be our forward for the majority of next season. It’s not as if there is an abundance of players coming through.

Serong, Ramsden, O’Sullivan Bennetts will be playing at box hill for the majority of next season and are a long way off being quality afl players.

Just on Greene, didn't we pick him up as a DFA instead of later in the rookie draft because we knew multiple clubs were keen on him and could snatch him up in an open pool?

Not to suggest that makes him a round 1 lock, but I don't believe we picked up a recycled player for the sake of it.

 

[tonygeeks]

Brockmans had twins. He’s spending time with them in Perth and had been training along side Shai Bolton and will return in January. He’s not injured or recovering from shoulder surgery.

Moore will play forward. It’s where he’s training.

Predicting Wingard will get injured early asking people to bookmark it like you want to be proven right is just poor form.

Pressure is on Koschitske to take his chances now he’s not going to be asked to ruck.

You and the other cult members should give old mate a bit more respect , the only Hawk fan who was on point in that elite end of the draft thread where as you guys were utterly wrong over and over and over

Think his opinion carries quite a bit more weight than all you lot

Curse of the Big Footy realist I suppose , gets disrespected for being right because he was right in a way no one wanted to hear

 

[Khmerhawk]

No one genuinely thinks we're tanking right?

Lol

No I doubt anyone really believes that ! How could anyone in their right mind think that Sam Mitchell wants to be known as the guy who took over from Alastair Clarkson and delivered the hawks the wooden spoon in his second year as coach. And our first in 58 years ?

 

[Freomaniac]

A punishment for poor governance re: the allegations would be appropriate.

Then a further punishment for tanking. This would be OK with me.

And force the hawks to be coached under Ross Lyon lol

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

You and the other cult members should give old mate a bit more respect , the only Hawk fan who was on point in that elite end of the draft thread where as you guys were utterly wrong over and over and over

Think his opinion carries quite a bit more weight than all you lot

Curse of the Big Footy realist I suppose , gets disrespected for being right because he was right in a way no one wanted to hear

Correcting him on where players are training and why they’re not at training is disrespectful? Get a grip.

 

[tonygeeks]

Correcting him on where players are training and why they’re not at training is disrespectful? Get a grip.

Was just a general statement and your post just happened to be there