Analysis Hawthorn rebuild: are they tanking?

[La Dispute]

You didn’t watch the clip, did you.

Doesn’t make a difference one way or another.

Using Kane Cornes comments to add validity to an opinion either way is hilarious.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Where did Stephens and Meek finish in their previous clubs B&F’s?

Mitchell finished 5th, JOM 7th and Gunston 11th (16 games). To say they weren’t amongst your clubs best players is lying.

Meek and Stephens are terrific low risk and cost/high reward recruits for the Hawks.

The fact they couldn't get regular games at finalists who had plenty of similar players ahead of the pecking order there is immaterial.

Plus they shredded heaps of cap space by losing Gunston, Mitchell, JOM

Moving forwards it's a case of addition by subtraction for The Hawks, still not sure if they had a successful National and Rookie Draft, but time will tell

 

[La Dispute]

It all comes down to age and potential mate.

Carlton supporters know this all too well.

Cooper Stephens might be the next Josh Kennedy, but more than likely he’ll become the next Sam Kerridge or Charlie Constable.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Doesn’t make a difference one way or another.

Using Kane Cornes comments to add validity to an opinion either way is hilarious.

Of course it makes a difference, because I would bet that you were parroting the same rhetoric at the start of the year that they were worth little in a trade.

 

[La Dispute]

Of course it makes a difference, because I would bet that you were parroting the same rhetoric at the start of the year that they were worth little in a trade.

Well you’d be wrong.

I’d clearly gone on record as saying Mitchell was worth a late 1st at the end of 2021, JOM a late first-early second.

Mitchell did a fair bit to dent their value this year.

 

[hawkman]

Well you’d be wrong.

I’d clearly gone on record as saying Mitchell was worth a late 1st at the end of 2021, JOM a late first-early second.

Mitchell did a fair bit to dent their value this year.

I would argue we got better value than that for O'Meara. A ruck and 2nd round pick for O'Meara and a 4th round pick

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Well you’d be wrong.

I’d clearly gone on record as saying Mitchell was worth a late 1st at the end of 2021, JOM a late first-early second.

Mitchell did a fair bit to dent their value this year.

And yet we still got Meek in and a future 2nd, when Freo were asking for a second alone for him before JOM was on the move.

And for Tom we got a kid we were looking to get across at the end of 2023 a year earlier, as well as late picks that helped us trade up on draft night.

The whole idea that we got nothing for them is false.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

“Amongst”?

That’s not was was posted. “Your best players” was written, and Tom and JOM were not that.

Semantics.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Semantics.

Words.

 

[La Dispute]

I would argue we got better value than that for O'Meara. A ruck and 2nd round pick for O'Meara and a 4th round pick

And yet we still got Meek in and a future 2nd, when Freo were asking for a second alone for him before JOM was on the move.

And for Tom we got a kid we were looking to get across at the end of 2023 a year earlier, as well as late picks that helped us trade up on draft night.

The whole idea that we got nothing for them is false.

Meek is a 24yo backup ruckman who’s played less than 20 games of football.

Not shooting for the stars here.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Meek is a 24yo backup ruckman who’s played less than 20 games of football.

Not shooting for the stars here.

10 clubs enquired about his services. We were fortunate enough to 'win the race'.

No guarantees, but he's shown decent signs at AFL level, tremendous signs at reserve level and joins a club who just lost their number 1 ruck. He'll get his opportunity now.

 

[La Dispute]

10 clubs enquired about his services. We were fortunate enough to 'win the race'.

No guarantees, but he's shown decent signs at AFL level, tremendous signs at reserve level and joins a club who just lost their number 1 ruck. He'll get his opportunity now.

All clubs do their due diligence on players.

Ruckman typically don’t go for a lot in trades, hence Witts for a token late pick, we got Pittonet for a similar price, Hickey signed for very little multiple times.

On balance I’d rather retain one of few AFL standard midfielders if it’s one or the other.

It’s going to be a bleak few years for the Hawks.

 

[peetoo]

Gunston would have been a handy player to keep around for a couple of years.

Leadership, versatile, decent output, but understandably he wanted another crack at a flag and wasn’t going to get it at Hawthorn.

Gunners probably saw isaacs success as encouragement.

 

[peetoo]

Don’t think anyone doubts that, but when you fling your best players for peanuts - on top of losing a stack of premiership veterans - there’s a real danger of sinking your professional standards.

Young players ‘creating their own legacy’ is often starry-eyed claptrap.

There’s huge Carlton 2006 vibes around the Hawks right now.

Carlton 2006? Get off it.

 

[peetoo]

Meek is a 24yo backup ruckman who’s played less than 20 games of football.

Not shooting for the stars here.

6 games more than blankk who is in everyone’s best 22

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Meek is a 24yo backup ruckman who’s played less than 20 games of football.

Not shooting for the stars here.

Meek isn’t seen as a backup ruckman, which is the exact reason 10 clubs came knocking. He was stuck behind Darcy.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Extreme actions cause extreme reactions. As I noted in another thread, Hawthorn’s abandoning of the draft previously was absolutely extreme. They have quickly come to the realisation that Clarkson and co completely rooted the list, so to fix it they needed extreme measures. That’s what we’re seeing.

 

[La Dispute]

Meek isn’t seen as a backup ruckman, which is the exact reason 10 clubs came knocking. He was stuck behind Darcy.

He’s predominantly a WAFL ruckman.

I like him as a prospect but wouldn’t have given up a proven senior midfielder to bring him in.

Hawks fans celebrating taking on reserves players in their mid 20’s really is hitting different though. Real resetting of expectations over the past couple of off seasons.

 

[Blackhawk42]

He’s predominantly a WAFL ruckman.

I like him as a prospect but wouldn’t have given up a proven senior midfielder to bring him in.

Hawks fans celebrating taking on reserves players in their mid 20’s really is hitting different though. Real resetting of expectations over the past couple of off seasons.

The extra selection we received in the trade has become our future second round pick, allowing us to trade the other to acquire the pick that secured Josh Weddle.

If Carlton, for example, had Jaeger O'Meara with identical output since 2017, are you saying you wouldn't trade him if it meant Meek and Weddle joined your club? Especially if your side was currently years away from contending?

 

[spudmaster]

He’s predominantly a WAFL ruckman.

I like him as a prospect but wouldn’t have given up a proven senior midfielder to bring him in.

Hawks fans celebrating taking on reserves players in their mid 20’s really is hitting different though. Real resetting of expectations over the past couple of off seasons.

Much like Pittonet was a VFL ruckman who was stuck behind McEvoy and Ceglar, until given a chance with Kreuzer retiring? Sometimes they simply need an opportunity.

 

[theiaofseed]

He’s predominantly a WAFL ruckman.

I like him as a prospect but wouldn’t have given up a proven senior midfielder to bring him in.

Hawks fans celebrating taking on reserves players in their mid 20’s really is hitting different though. Real resetting of expectations over the past couple of off seasons.

Yes because he was behind Darcy and was only let go when Fremantle landed Jackson.... he would be your number one ruckmen and you know it.

 

[La Dispute]

The extra selection we received in the trade has become our future second round pick, allowing us to trade the other to acquire the pick that secured Josh Weddle.

If Carlton, for example, had Jaeger O'Meara with identical output since 2017, are you saying you wouldn't trade him if it meant Meek and Weddle joined your club? Especially if your side was currently years away from contending?

Our club was years away from contending because of how deeply we cut the list.

If the club had it’s time again I doubt we’d make some of the moves we did, because it rendered us uncompetitive for basically 2 and a half seasons, and was compounded by losing Docherty.

Most clubs are now moving away from scorched earth rebuilds, and in the Hawks case they aren’t even getting well compensated for losing quality senior players.

So no I would caution against swiping two onballers and would take 3 more years output over some mediocre picks and a WAFL ruckman.

 

[La Dispute]

Much like Pittonet was a VFL ruckman who was stuck behind McEvoy and Ceglar, until given a chance with Kreuzer retiring? Sometimes they simply need an opportunity.

Agreed, but as I have said I’d much prefer retaining an onballer given the Hawks lack of midfield depth and experience.

Can always sign a state league ruck in the interim which I guess the Hawks have basically done.

 

[La Dispute]

Yes because he was behind Darcy and was only let go when Fremantle landed Jackson.... he would be your number one ruckmen and you know it.

Well he isn’t as good as good a ruck as Pittonet or as good at ground level or forward of the ball as TDK, so he’d likely be 3rd in line and potentially 4th depending on Mirkov’s progression over the off season.

I get he’s considered a big ticket signing by Hawks supporters these days but he’s not that great.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Yes because he was behind Darcy and was only let go when Fremantle landed Jackson.... he would be your number one ruckmen and you know it.

Carlton have a younger and better prospect in De Koning who has exposed AFL form.

Meek is a two's ruckman until he proves otherwise. Traded for one of your best midfielders after a season where you were smashed on ball week in week out.