Analysis Hawthorn rebuild: are they tanking?

[demondavey]

No team deliberately loses but it's obvious they are tanking.

It's a hell of a risk and can breed serious fan discontentment.

I can see the logic in doing it; I've just never seen it so blatant as it is now. It's not cheating, though, so let them do what they feel they must under the system we have.

Chris Scott: "If we're accused of trying to be relevant every year rather than not being in the conversation, I'll wear that."

It’s not tanking.

You don’t know what tanking is.

 

[RUNVS]

It was a rebuttal post from a guy who said that we were uncompetitive in the clearances. I was not bragging at all.

Calm your farm mate.

Just want everyone to know that the "Swans being very good at clearances" is very much a myth that just keeps being repeated. We are in fact very very below par when it comes to clearances and have been for a long time.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Just want everyone to know that the "Swans being very good at clearances" is very much a myth that just keeps being repeated. We are in fact very very below par when it comes to clearances and have been for a long time.

And that's fine but the facts state that Hawthorn was not uncompetitive in the clearances as the guy I quoted suggested. Hawthorn won the clearance battle handily.

It was a rebuttal point. Nothing more. I have no earthly idea why you are making an issue out of it.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Why would we feel bad?

We got 4 premierships out of an extraordinary generation of players and the AFL's equalisation measures mean that we are now paying the piper. Clarko tried to make one more run at it with some poor trading...so what? He had earned that right.

And if 10 years, even 20 years of languishing at the bottom is the price we pay then so be it. I doubt you'll have much luck finding more than a handful of us who lived through the good times who are unwilling to pay it.

So, I don't feel bad. I feel great. Actually being at the MCG to watch one of the greatest teams of all time win 4 premierships in 8 years (including the threepeat) has provided a lifetime of memories.

100%, Hawthorn supporters have been kissed on the dick, so whether it’s 5 years or 15 years before we are any good, nothing changes how great we’ve had it and how enjoyable all the flags have been in our lifetime.

This might be something other supporters just can’t understand.

 

[The 747]

It was a rebuttal post from a guy who said that we were uncompetitive in the clearances. I was not bragging at all.

Calm your farm mate.

It was a parody David King account that was right on brand by making incorrect assertions of fact.

 

[peetoo]

100%, Hawthorn supporters have been kissed on the dick, so whether it’s 5 years or 15 years before we are any good, nothing changes how great we’ve had it and how enjoyable all the flags have been in our lifetime.

This might be something other supporters just can’t understand.

Not much happened 97 to 04 but memberships increased most of those years

 

[Zephyr Effekt]

Why would we feel bad?

We got 4 premierships out of an extraordinary generation of players and the AFL's equalisation measures mean that we are now paying the piper. Clarko tried to make one more run at it with some poor trading...so what? He had earned that right.

And if 10 years, even 20 years of languishing at the bottom is the price we pay then so be it. I doubt you'll have much luck finding more than a handful of us who lived through the good times who are unwilling to pay it.

So, I don't feel bad. I feel great. Actually being at the MCG to watch one of the greatest teams of all time win 4 premierships in 8 years (including the threepeat) has provided a lifetime of memories.

100%, Hawthorn supporters have been kissed on the dick, so whether it’s 5 years or 15 years before we are any good, nothing changes how great we’ve had it and how enjoyable all the flags have been in our lifetime.

This might be something other supporters just can’t understand.

Take your memories of flags, happiness and enjoyment to the Kodak thread where they belong god dammit!!

 

[Toump Ass]

Why would we feel bad?

Board disharmony and instability, allegations of the ex-coach and his disciples being racist pricks which could have very long-lasting consequences (sanctions?), a lack of on-field leadership, poor list, and at least a full season of getting absolutely pumped by every other club in the AFL.

As a Dees supporter this sort of stuff doesn't really phase me tbh, not sure the average Hawks supporters has the necessary character to see the other side of it tho.

 

[theiaofseed]

Wish people would stop bringing up the clearances as bragging you beat the Swans in the clearances is like bragging you beat Usain Bolt in a game of Mario Party.

Really is that why Sydney were the third best clearance team last year, 8th by differential so far from bad like you like to claim. Guess where Hawthorn were?

If you're too thick to understand why Hawthorn winning clearance was huge step you shouldn't be posting in this thread.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Board disharmony and instability, allegations of the ex-coach and his disciples being racist pricks which could have very long-lasting consequences (sanctions?), a lack of on-field leadership, poor list, and at least a full season of getting absolutely pumped by every other club in the AFL.

As a Dees supporter this sort of stuff doesn't really phase me tbh, not sure the average Hawks supporters has the necessary character to see the other side of it tho.

You listen to Caroline Wilson too much.

The racism thing will play out as it plays out but almost all, if not all of the involved parties are long gone from the club.

Board disharmony? Don Scott being an agitator is hardly new news. The guy is an angry old man and these days, if he is scathing of Hawthorn then they must be doing something right. He's been a serial whinger for 25 years now. I suspect he feels jilted that he wasn't handed the club on a silver platter post the 1996 merger talks.

As to the situation with the actual team, well this was addressed in a couple of my earlier posts.

 

[BigPond101]

They will beat North this week and win a few games this year like any bottom 4 club this hysteria is too much after 2 games

 

[demondavey]

100%, Hawthorn supporters have been kissed on the dick, so whether it’s 5 years or 15 years before we are any good, nothing changes how great we’ve had it and how enjoyable all the flags have been in our lifetime.

This might be something other supporters just can’t understand.

I’d really like to understand it.

 

[Whiskers]

Just can’t respect a side who needs to be deliberately terrible in an attempt to rise again.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Just can’t respect a side who needs to be deliberately terrible in an attempt to rise again.

Good for you sport.

We aren't "deliberately terrible." We are just terrible.

I mean, we are damned by the simple whatever path we take. We keep JOM, Mitchell and Shiels and are told that we should be cutting them loose in favour of the kids. Cut them loose so we can get games into the kids and we are accused of tanking.

Explain to me what other avenues were available to us.

 

[demondavey]

Just can’t respect a side who needs to be deliberately terrible in an attempt to rise again.

What’s your suggestion? I think AC attempted a rebuild with vets but it didn’t work. Mitchell just needs to try something else. Not that bad an idea.

 

[Beerfish]

Explain to me what other avenues were available to us.

Fold.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Fold.

Well there's an option I guess.

 

[hawkman]

Well there's an option I guess.

The other option may be use something to help bulk up our players quickly. I hear it worked quite well previously

 

[Beerfish]

The other option may be use something to help bulk up our players quickly. I hear it worked quite well previously

Doubt it. They're slow enough as it is.

 

[jakson68]

Hawthorn offloaded good players and purposely made themselves a weaker team.
They knew full well that they were going to be holding up the ladder by doing that but winning a few games wasn't the most important thing to them.
Some can see this as "tanking" but all Hawthorn players that enter the field will be trying just as hard as every other team to win.
The players would not tank!!
Hawthorn couldn't care less about the results for this year, or next, as they have one eye on the future.
Their plan is obvious, get as many early picks and good kids in as we can and grow them together as a team.
Hawthorn supporters are patient because they know when they are ready to challenge for a flag, they usually get it (and then some).

Four years from now, this could be a masterstroke, getting a bunch of highly rated kids each year is one way to build a great team.

GWS and GC, will tell you it doesn't always work though.

 

[Beerfish]

Hawthorn supporters are patient

 

[hawker11]

I’d really like to understand it.

So we found out in 1996

 

[jakson68]

As my Wife (a mad Hawthorn supporter) constantly tells me.
She has seen her team win 10 flags in her 40 years, which is more than most teams have in their existence.
"We may not win it this year but that is ok, I can wait because when we do win it, it is rarely just one"

I have seen my beloved Pies win only two flags in my 50 years, so I wouldn't be disappointed if I followed Hawthorn over the years.

 

[Beerfish]

"We may not win it this year but that is ok, I can wait because when we do win it, it is rarely just one"

That's not really patience. That's hubris.

 

[Vindicater]

We aren't "deliberately terrible." We are just terrible.

Fairly certain you are deliberately more terrible than you needed to be.

Which is fine by the way. I don't see that as tanking.