Research Help Building a VFA Football Database (similar to AFL Tables)

[Michael Riley]

What Already Exists
AFL Tables is amazing but it does not encompass the Pre VFL era (where Mark Pennings has done so much research) and Wal's database at the Gap Chess Club is amazing but frustrating at the same time as it does not have the database features that would be great.

Why we need something more
Anyone researching VFA players has no reference material. It is also very difficult to check VFA records such as goal kickers, high scores per ground etc.

There has been discussion on Facebook regarding the creation of a VFA museum. I think that is great, but that will need player names and dates and that will have to be built by the community.

A Website
After thinking about it for ages, I have built an database and have written scripting to generate a website based on it. It is currently very crude, but I think it will do the job. I will release what I have in a few weeks.

Help needed
Player to game data......does anyone have any? I have done a couple of years (1897-1899), and have scratch data for other years so everything is going to be useful.

I have a copy of the Sandringham Football Club Player Encyclopedia as well as other material

I have done the following for 1941
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vku1tihcrdtuhc7/1941 team details.xlsx?dl=0

 

[Michael Riley]

Please find some early versions of the spreadsheets I have been working with

1897
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9506229/1897 v1.xlsx

1898
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9506229/1898 v1.xlsx

1899
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9506229/1899 v1.xlsx



I have a spreadsheet with the shell of names for 1896 (based on Mark Pennings work) but it needs work. (I have footscray, but no other teams). Penning is pretty accurate with his data.

I have a shell of names for 1940. (and games up to about Round 4). This one is relatively easy because the sporting globe gives the player names and positions in their reports after each game.

I have a complete season for 1950 (not done by me) with all names for all games, but it has not been checked by anyone

1896
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9506229/1896 v1.xlsx

1940
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9506229/1940 v1.xlsx

1950
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9506229/1950 v1.xlsx

I have partial and unchecked data for many other seasons

 

[BringBackTorps]

Please find some early versions of the spreadsheets I have been working with

1897
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9506229/1897 v1.xlsx

1898
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9506229/1898 v1.xlsx

1899
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9506229/1899 v1.xlsx



I have a spreadsheet with the shell of names for 1896 (based on Mark Pennings work) but it needs work. (I have footscray, but no other teams). Penning is pretty accurate with his data.

I have a shell of names for 1940. (and games up to about Round 4). This one is relatively easy because the sporting globe gives the player names and positions in their reports after each game.

I have a complete season for 1950 (not done by me) with all names for all games, but it has not been checked by anyone

1896
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9506229/1896 v1.xlsx

1940
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9506229/1940 v1.xlsx

1950
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9506229/1950 v1.xlsx

I have partial and unchecked data for many other seasons

I noticed in 1896, Footscray had a player -Janie Barrass.
I wonder if this is a relative (anglicised surname) of the great man?

Keep up the great work.

It is a sad reflection on the AFL that it does not record, & celebrate properly, our wonderful pre-1897 history.

 

[blueycarlton]

I noticed in 1896, Footscray had a player -Janie Barrass.
I wonder if this is a relative (anglicised surname) of the great man?

Keep up the great work.

It is a sad reflection on the AFL that it does not record, & celebrate properly, our wonderful pre-1897 history.

There were a few players named Barrass going back to the early days of football in the 1860's. Some played with Melbourne, Carlton, South Melbourne and Footscray.
Carlton had Charles Barrass 1868 - 70, and Edward 'Ted' Barass 1878 - 83
Blueseum has more info. on them as well as Carlton Pre 1897 seasons, bios, images, articles.

 

[35Daicos]

West Coast has a Barrass (Tom) on it's books currently, of course.

 

[BringBackTorps]

There were a few players named Barrass going back to the early days of football in the 1860's. Some played with Melbourne, Carlton, South Melbourne and Footscray.
Carlton had Charles Barrass 1868 - 70, and Edward 'Ted' Barass 1878 - 83
Blueseum has more info. on them as well as Carlton Pre 1897 seasons, bios, images, articles.

Were any of these Barrass players distant relatives of Ron? AFAIK, R.Barassi had a nthn. Italian grandfather.

 

[Michael Riley]

There is progress
http://www.TheVFAProject.org

29 years of data have been added so far. Thanks to WhiteHartLane23

 

[Michael Riley]

Just added the latest data to the site.

The ladders are not 100% for early seasons and do not account for walkovers) so buyer beware. Otherwise...This was a big update, now 8308 players and all years up to 1986 in the database.

 

[Bassoon]

Just added the latest data to the site.

The ladders are not 100% for early seasons and do not account for walkovers) so buyer beware. Otherwise...This was a big update, now 8308 players and all years up to 1986 in the database.

 

[Bassoon]

Hi Michael. What great work you have done!!! At this stage I'm not so much interested in players, but actual scores of matches - and have found great inconsistency in many records. I've compiled quarter by quarter scores for all VFA matches (with a few rounds missing) - I've done the results from a mixture of the Age, Argus, Herald Sun, the Mercury, the Examiner Launceston), and the VFA recorders. I would hate to say that my collection is wrong, but hope it helps. Cheers, Julie. Sorry, PM me - no allowed to upload XLSM Files evidently.

 

[blueycarlton]

Were any of these Barrass players distant relatives of Ron? AFAIK, R.Barassi had a nthn. Italian grandfather.

Possibly, although slightly different spelling. Why don't you do a ancestry search? It would be great to find out.

 

[Supermercado]

This has already been a fantastic help in building our list of MFC/VFA crossover players. Thanks for your work on this.

 

[Gibbsy]

There is progress
http://www.TheVFAProject.org

29 years of data have been added so far. Thanks to WhiteHartLane23

I'm getting a 404 for both this and the Gap Chess Club site. What's up?

 

[35Daicos]

I'm getting a 404 for both this and the Gap Chess Club site. What's up?

This one works for the Gap Chess Club site: http://old.thegapchessclub.org.au/vfa/

I'm not sure whether or not it's still being worked on, however.

 

[Michael Riley]

oops...better pay that invoice then
Should be back soon.

I did not know about old.thegapchessclub.org.au, I was using
https://web.archive.org/web/20180314140145/http://www.thegapchessclub.org.au/vfa/

I have been working on 1909, 1910 and 1919. They will be uploaded relatively soon...I still have to cross check the names

I have also done a lot of work on vfa crowds especially from 1920 to 1950. The numbers have been very interesting.

Year VFL VFA % VFA
1921 1,340,858

1922 1,532,070 360,000 19%
1923 1,544,888 418,000 21%
1924 1,646,273 517,100 24%
1925 1,871,336 270,800 13%
1926 1,966,841 396,750 17%
1927 1,862,068 400,800 18%
1928 2,053,432 350,300 15%
1929 1,911,541 674,550 26%
1930 1,876,678 568,800 23%
1931 1,785,275 440,200 20%
1932 1,876,973 464,900 20%
1933 1,942,580 436,600 18%
1934 1,899,507 312,600 14%
1935 1,903,348 289,300 13%
1936 1,804,435 334,000 16%
1937 1,782,055 251,000 12%
1938 1,978,930 357,700 15%
1939 1,895,375 591,050 24%
1940 1,596,946 501,232 24%
1941 1,522,004 416,839 21%

 

[VFA1877]

Wal William's results can now be accessed here: http://www.elitetograssroots.net/vfa/
This is now the permanent home for Wal's results.

 

[Michael Riley]

There is progress
http://www.TheVFAProject.org

1897-1954 player data is nearly complete
1955+ player data is about 50% complete (only goal kickers and best and fairest)
The website has a spreadsheet indicating coverage of player data.
Ladders are still being automatically generated from games and may contain errors where games were annulled. Fixing this is on the to-do list.

http://www.thevfaproject.org/TheVFAProject/pages/Crowds.php
http://www.thevfaproject.org/TheVFAProject/pages/CrowdsHighest.php
http://www.thevfaproject.org/TheVFAProject/pages/StatsHighScorebyDecade.php

There are now 19000 players in the database
Of these over 3500 played in the VFL

There are over 320,000 player to game references.
If the data is 99% correct then there are 3200+ errors

Thanks to WhiteHartLane23, Wal Williams and John Ficara
WhiteHartLane23 supplied more data for 1900-1902 seasons - This must have been an amazing amount of work, as these early seasons are very hard to work with.
Wal Williams has supplied player databases for all vfa clubs, I have been cross checking against these.
John Ficara has supplied resources I did not know existed and his copies of club annual reports and VFA records have been of much use.


If anyone has the quarter by Quarter scores and goalkickers for Sunshines games in the 1989 season. I would like to add them to the database.

 

[ThePope]

Looks good. Will you extend it past 95 into the VFL era, or are you happy to stop at the end of the VFA name?

In your VFL crossover section, you have Jamie Bond linked to Chris Bond (Carl/Rich/Freo), not Jamie Bond (Fitzroy).

 

[worbod]

If anyone has the quarter by Quarter scores and goalkickers for Sunshines games in the 1989 season. I would like to add them to the database.

As published in Inside Football:

Round 1: Sunshine 1.2, 7.2, 10.3, 12.6 (78) vs Brunswick 9.3, 20.6, 36.10, 53.15 (333)
Goals: M. Mirikilis 4, Gollant 3, Hewitt 2, Kirkham, Redpath, Williams

Round 2: bye

Round 3: Sunshine 3.3, 11.5, 17.14, 18.17 (125) vs Camberwell 3.3, 9.7, 16.9, 27.14 (176)
Goals: Molony 6, Williams, Dunstan 3, Kirkham 2, McPherson, Kelly, Dyson, Duggan

Round 4: Sunshine 2.6, 10.8, 14.9, 19.12 (126) vs Oakleigh 7.5, 14.8, 24.10, 34.16 (220)
Goals: Williams 6, Kelly, Duggan 3, Taylor, Harvey 2, Kirkham, McPherson, Bliss

Round 5: Sunshine 3.1, 6.3, 9.5, 9.5 (59) vs Preston 10.7, 26.11, 34.15, 49.21 (315)
Goals: Kelly, Williams 2, Dunstan, Dyson, Taylor, McPherson, Robinson

Round 6: Sunshine 0.5, 3.8, 5.11, 9.13 (67) vs Port Melbourne 7.4, 10.8, 13.11, 20.16 (136)
Goals: Protetto, Mitrovski 2, Taylor, Menadue, McPherson, Simmons, Williams

Round 7: Sunshine 1.8, 1.8, 1.10, 2.12 (24) vs Springvale 7.2, 12.12, 19.17, 24.26 (170)
Goals: Taylor, Williams

Round 8: Sunshine 3.2, 4.3, 8.4, 10.4 (64) vs Frankston 8.4, 18.8, 28.13, 35.19 (229)
Goals: Kelly 3, Mitrovski, Andrewatha 2, Simmonds, Taylor, Williams

Round 9: Sunshine 1.0, 2.0, 2.3, 3.5 (23) vs Box Hill 7.5, 17.11, 23.20, 30.26 (206)
Goals: Anderwathia, Kelly, Buck

Hope this helps. In one edition Simmons was named as Simmonds, and Andrewatha was named as Anderwathia. I have included the differences in spelling as I presume they are the same player. I am hoping your database will allow you to determine the correct spelling for both these men.

 

[Michael Riley]

Looks good. Will you extend it past 95 into the VFL era, or are you happy to stop at the end of the VFA name?

In your VFL crossover section, you have Jamie Bond linked to Chris Bond (Carl/Rich/Freo), not Jamie Bond (Fitzroy).

My first aim was 1897-1941. That has stretched to 1954.
My next tasks are pre 1897 and 1955 to 95

In the short term no to post 95. I am not opposed to it. It is just it is already a monster.

I will fix an links people send in my database (thank you for all corrections) but I will not make them live for a while. My Access database generates approx 36,000 pages to create the site. The script takes just under 24 hours to run. And then another hour to push it to the web.

This is painful, but means the site is fast and hosting costs are low.

As I write this I have discovered that M

Back To Top​

atthews for North Melbourne 1913 is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herb_Matthews_Sr.

 

[Michael Riley]

As published in Inside Football:

Hope this helps. In one edition Simmons was named as Simmonds, and Andrewatha was named as Anderwathia. I have included the differences in spelling as I presume they are the same player. I am hoping your database will allow you to determine the correct spelling for both these men.

Spelling in early newspapers is very variable. It is often very difficult to decide
A few examples from WhiteHartLane23's 1902 include changes from
Dowers->Gowers;
Rennett->Kennett
Langlands >Landells
Shiffers>Chivers
Shuter>Shooter Ford

In many cases I choose one and just note the variation in the player notes. I then make corrections as more accurate data comes in over time.

 

[Bassoon]

Spelling in early newspapers is very variable. It is often very difficult to decide
A few examples from WhiteHartLane23's 1902 include changes from
Dowers->Gowers;
Rennett->Kennett
Langlands >Landells
Shiffers>Chivers
Shuter>Shooter Ford

In many cases I choose one and just note the variation in the player notes. I then make corrections as more accurate data comes in over time.

 

[Bassoon]

From the research I've done, The Age was crap past 64 teams. Goalkickers can be done, but happy to help to. Please email me for any help I can give you.

 

[Bassoon]

As published in Inside Football:

Round 1: Sunshine 1.2, 7.2, 10.3, 12.6 (78) vs Brunswick 9.3, 20.6, 36.10, 53.15 (333)
Goals: M. Mirikilis 4, Gollant 3, Hewitt 2, Kirkham, Redpath, Williams

Round 2: bye

Round 3: Sunshine 3.3, 11.5, 17.14, 18.17 (125) vs Camberwell 3.3, 9.7, 16.9, 27.14 (176)
Goals: Molony 6, Williams, Dunstan 3, Kirkham 2, McPherson, Kelly, Dyson, Duggan

Round 4: Sunshine 2.6, 10.8, 14.9, 19.12 (126) vs Oakleigh 7.5, 14.8, 24.10, 34.16 (220)
Goals: Williams 6, Kelly, Duggan 3, Taylor, Harvey 2, Kirkham, McPherson, Bliss

Round 5: Sunshine 3.1, 6.3, 9.5, 9.5 (59) vs Preston 10.7, 26.11, 34.15, 49.21 (315)
Goals: Kelly, Williams 2, Dunstan, Dyson, Taylor, McPherson, Robinson

Round 6: Sunshine 0.5, 3.8, 5.11, 9.13 (67) vs Port Melbourne 7.4, 10.8, 13.11, 20.16 (136)
Goals: Protetto, Mitrovski 2, Taylor, Menadue, McPherson, Simmons, Williams

Round 7: Sunshine 1.8, 1.8, 1.10, 2.12 (24) vs Springvale 7.2, 12.12, 19.17, 24.26 (170)
Goals: Taylor, Williams

Round 8: Sunshine 3.2, 4.3, 8.4, 10.4 (64) vs Frankston 8.4, 18.8, 28.13, 35.19 (229)
Goals: Kelly 3, Mitrovski, Andrewatha 2, Simmonds, Taylor, Williams

Round 9: Sunshine 1.0, 2.0, 2.3, 3.5 (23) vs Box Hill 7.5, 17.11, 23.20, 30.26 (206)
Goals: Anderwathia, Kelly, Buck

Hope this helps. In one edition Simmons was named as Simmonds, and Andrewatha was named as Anderwathia. I have included the differences in spelling as I presume they are the same player. I am hoping your database will allow you to determine the correct spelling for both these men.

 

[Bassoon]

Michael, give me your email, not so much goal kickers, but apart from Sunshine, the demise of Mordialloc, Moorabbin, and Brunswick/Broadmeadows throughout the years. However correct or otherwise, Ladders and scores by Round from 1897. Email is juliepholmes@yahoo.com.au. If I can help, I will.