How do you fix rugby in Australia?

[mikey127]

Just wondering how you fix rugby in Australia and how much trouble people think it is in.

I really hope I am wrong but I can't see the wallabies being a decent side in the next 10 years the talent just isn't there. Really its seems when we last a really good wallabies side it was in the late 90s and early 2000s and Soccer was not nearly what it is now and rugby league was still recovering from the super league war.

I also worry that for young kids we don't have an Eales, Larkin or Gregan to look up to. If you went down the street and asked people who the wallabies captain was most wouldn't even know the answer. In that time I wasn't nearly as interested in rugby as I am now but still new who our captain was.

I'd be interested in peoples thoughts as too how much trouble do you think the game is in here and how do we turn it around?

 

[Seedsfan]

It is certainly at a cross roads no doubt living in Melbourne I think the strength of club rugby is growing having the Rebels in town and we are starting to see the first generation of Melbourne super rugby players.

A bigger FTA presence is needed so more people can watch the game and be engaged, I think the NRC is a step in the right direction. I think it is great we now have a national comp as let's face it we don't care about beating the Japs or Argies and the South African games are so early in the morning it makes it hard to watch making Super Rugby a very disjointed comp.

The structure of Super Rugby needs to change get rid of the conferences go back to 15 sides and everyone plays each other once.

 

[mikey127]

It is certainly at a cross roads no doubt living in Melbourne I think the strength of club rugby is growing having the Rebels in town and we are starting to see the first generation of Melbourne super rugby players.

A bigger FTA presence is needed so more people can watch the game and be engaged, I think the NRC is a step in the right direction. I think it is great we now have a national comp as let's face it we don't care about beating the Japs or Argies and the South African games are so early in the morning it makes it hard to watch making Super Rugby a very disjointed comp.

The structure of Super Rugby needs to change get rid of the conferences go back to 15 sides and everyone plays each other once.

Think you raise some good points.

I hear club rugby has improved in the last few years due to the rebels but one mate says at his club there is 1 aussie and the rest are kiwis islanders etc, is this common?

 

[Seedsfan]

Think you raise some good points.

I hear club rugby has improved in the last few years due to the rebels but one mate says at his club there is 1 aussie and the rest are kiwis islanders etc, is this common?

Look you get people from all backgrounds, from my experience you can expect to find a mix of Aussie, Kiwis, Islanders, Poms, South Africans and maybe even a Frenchman or two. But it's a good environment to be around and you see the older blokes with kids they maybe a kiwi but their kids wear Rebels gear

 

[chibimatty]

A lot of stuff needs to be sorted out underneath the top-level. There is a disconnect between the top-level and the youth (and their friends and family who supported them) coming through. Once, young players coming through the grades were playing alongside Wallabies at their clubs, learning from them from high school age, through colts and then the grades up to first. All the clubs had state and test players plying their trade, with different styles of play and coaching philosophies. I think playing alongside and against those differing styles, philosophies and rep players, holds you in good stead with your ability to play instinctively. I think what they do now instead, is that they choose players very young and put them into high-performance training to channel them into Super Rugby, I'm not sure this is creating rugby "players" but instead rugby "automatons." I feel most Australian players seem to pin their ears back when they make a break, running at 100mph, without getting their hands ready to pass and waiting for support, meanwhile the rest of the team don't know how to instinctively link in order to back up and to continue the movement to score tries from range when given the opportunity. Likewise, when there is a numerical advantage, but no space, the Australians do not engage the opposition defenders instinctively in a drive or maul, which would gain them yardage and allow them time to set for a three-quarter movement across the field. It seems to me our default option is to go to ground and set up the next orchestrated phase.

How they can solve this problem? I'm unsure they can or will. Super Rugby and test rugby are where we get our money from, I don't see us reducing that part of the calender in order to have all our Wallabies back at their local clubs, playing week in week out alongside the players of the future. I certainly know when I was younger, it was great seeing the great Randwick or South Brisbane sides with their full compliment of state and Wallaby reps around the clubrooms and at training, I reckon this would have been awesome for young players.

I would love to know if there was a way to do this now, but I think the threat of European money means that Australia has to do things in an alternate way in order to get similar results. Maybe there should be a nationwide sevens program for all youths/colts which encourages every player to learn the basics of linking up and support-play? I dunno if they do that now or not. Could there be more selection XV matches, whereby forwards have to play alongside different team-mates from other clubs and rugby backgrounds in order to learn basic, instinctive mauling and driving play?

If anyone's been watching some of the play by the Jaguares, they have been reminding me of old Australian rugby. They've scored some tries which have gone the length-of-the-field this season, and they always look to run in support and to get their hands free to deliver a pass and keep the ball alive. There is an instinctive nous to doing this, it takes a seasoned player to know how to control themselves and not throw the wasteful ball. It takes a seasoned player and instinctive forwards to know when there is nothing on and it's time to go up the middle and draw in the defenders.

Another problem is getting the game to expand from the heartland schools into the wider community. Rugby is a largely school-based game, it would be awesome if the game was expanded in the state schools and non-traditional associated colleges, also if there was a coordinated effort to expand the junior club scene, to compliment the schools system. I would love to see these competitions stripped of the public/private lines and turned into more of a geographical-based divisions system based on equivalent quality. I would seriously look at weight-for-age rugby also.

Of course, all of the above may already be taking place for all I know. The other problem, is that there may be intentions to do these things, but no money in the coffers to execute it

 

[mikey127]

We aren't likely to have a world cup here till about 2035 are we? Another world cup would give rugby a real lift here.

 

[chibimatty]

That would be the best short term injection of funds that I could think of.

 

[Seedsfan]

We aren't likely to have a world cup here till about 2035 are we? Another world cup would give rugby a real lift here.

Surely we could get 2027

 

[mikey127]

Surely we could get 2027

Wouldn't South Africa argue that we have had it more recently then they have?

 

[robbieando]

Surely we could get 2027

Ireland, France and South Africa are competing against each other for 2023.

Could easily make the case for Ireland in 2023 then South Africa in 2027 and then France in 2031. That means the earliest we could bid would be 2035 and we could knocked away by a Argentina bid if they wanted to host thus ruling us out in 2039. So that brings us to 2043. We aren't a walk up start if we bid

 

[Seedsfan]

Wouldn't South Africa argue that we have had it more recently then they have?

They just lost the Com games people won't trust them

 

[robbieando]

They just lost the Com games people won't trust them

Not really. Different organisations and they have the Stadiums ready to go.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

A bigger FTA presence is needed so more people can watch the game and be engaged, I think the NRC is a step in the right direction. I think it is great we now have a national comp as let's face it we don't care about beating the racist or Argies and the South African games are so early in the morning it makes it hard to watch making Super Rugby a very disjointed comp.

The NRC may help player development but it won't do a thing to make rugby union more popular. People know it's a third rate competition.

 

[Seedsfan]

The NRC may help player development but it won't do a thing to make rugby union more popular. People know it's a third rate competition.

Yeah it's a step down from test or super rugby but it is still a good standard they also play a high speed attacking game that less loyal fans will find more appealing

 

[Seedsfan]

Not really. Different organisations and they have the Stadiums ready to go.

It still is a bad look Australia has a very good reputation for staging events like these and that will always count in our favour

 

[chibimatty]

The NRC is an okay competition, I would look at the way it's broadcast and it's presentation. Even if it's seen as lower quality, it could make up for it in the closeness of it's contests and the fun style of football being played.

 

[robbieando]

It still is a bad look Australia has a very good reputation for staging events like these and that will always count in our favour

South Africa has successfully hosted the FIFA World Cup, Rugby World Cup and the Cricket World Cup, so they have us matched really. Not setting up an organising committee for the Commonwealth Games (which was the only reason the Games were striped) will hardly be a factor for World Rugby to consider.

The fact South Africa is in the same time zone as Europe will please the TV Networks to push them over Australia as well. So no our "very good reputation" won't count in our favour for many reasons as it hasn't counted for years and the only major competitions we get are either in a joint bid with New Zealand (CWC/RWC), as the only bidder (Commonwealth Games) or we promise to pay for everyone's costs at the last minute (Sydney Olympics).

 

[Seedsfan]

South Africa has successfully hosted the FIFA World Cup, Rugby World Cup and the Cricket World Cup, so they have us matched really. Not setting up an organising committee for the Commonwealth Games (which was the only reason the Games were striped) will hardly be a factor for World Rugby to consider.

The fact South Africa is in the same time zone as Europe will please the TV Networks to push them over Australia as well. So no our "very good reputation" won't count in our favour for many reasons as it hasn't counted for years and the only major competitions we get are either in a joint bid with New Zealand (CWC/RWC), as the only bidder (Commonwealth Games) or we promise to pay for everyone's costs at the last minute (Sydney Olympics).

And there was big issues during the soccer World Cup

 

[robbieando]

And there was big issues during the soccer World Cup

Such as?

 

[Seedsfan]

Such as?

I can remember watching some program on the ABC about it apparently it angered the vast amounts of poor in the country as they were spending so much on stadia

 

[robbieando]

I can remember watching some program on the ABC about it apparently it angered the vast amounts of poor in the country as they were spending so much on stadia

That's an issue with all major tournaments and events.

The Sydney Olympics faced the same thing, therefore by your reasoning Australia had big issues hosting the Olympics and thus can't host the RWC.

 

[Seedsfan]

That's an issue with all major tournaments and events.

The Sydney Olympics faced the same thing, therefore by your reasoning Australia had big issues hosting the Olympics and thus can't host the RWC.

We don't have the same class disparity or levels of poverty that they have in South Africa

 

[Demosthenes]

Rugby will always struggle to be accessible because it is complicated and highly technical. I love rugby but if I had (say) an American friend visiting, I would take them to see an NRL or AFL game instead - league and footy are more exciting and comprehensible for someone who has no great understanding of the rules. I can honestly say that I probably wouldn't be a huge rugby fan if I didn't play the game growing up.

Realistically, I don't think rugby will ever return to the heights it did in the '90s. Then, the private school heartland was a strength by giving access to resources and infrastructure not otherwise possible for amateur sport. Now, it is an isolating factor that limits its growth potential because of the stigma and the limited support base.

I think the NRC is a great move - new clubs disassociated from the class divisions of 'old rugby' are the best way to bring in first-generation rugby supporters, and the more FTA coverage the better. Sevens is also the way forward - the free-flowing and open nature of that game has natural appeal to casual fans and the uninitiated. I definitely think it is the way forward in terms of creating a sustainable and broad-based community for the future. Ultimately that is what I'd be content with - I have no pretensions towards a return to global dominance (although winning the Bledisloe once in a while would be nice).

 

[Greenstar5]

I would like to see the ARU spread the love of Wallabies games, different games in different cities.

Doing the deal for 1 Bledisloe Cup game in Sydney every year doesnt help. The All Blacks are our biggest game. Should be shared around the 5 major cities, every 2nd year when we have 2 games, 1 can be in Sydney.

This years fixtures I would have had,
Fiji In Sydney at SFS (Afternoon).
Scotland in Adelaide at Adelaide Oval (Afternoon).
Italy in Canberra (Afternoon).
Argentina in Melbourne at MRS.
South Africa in Perth at Nib.
New Zealand In Sydney at ANZ
New Zealand in Brisbane at Suncorp.

Next year take
Argentina to Brisbane
New Zealand to Sydney
South Africa to Melbourne
And which ever Northern Hemisphere team tours in June to Perth, Adelaide and Canberra.

We know in 2019 the All Blacks play in Perth at the new stadium, so in 4 years of tests in Perth we have had 4 different teams. Do the same for the other cities.

As for getting a World Cup, I cant see us getting one anytime soon. Rugby is growing around the world, World Rugby would love to World Cups in the US, Argentina, Italy and as stated before South Africa will be in line before us.

 

[Seedsfan]

I think part of the issue with rugby in Australia is how the expanded, when Super Rugby started instead of putting a side in ACT they should have gone straight to Melbourne then to Perth and then to the ACT if we needed a 5th side. The Rebels would have had a big following and rugby in Victoria would be a lot stronger as a result