Moved Thread how do you rate and compare the past two premiers?

[Dr Tigris]

Must take into account the injury run Richmond has. They hardly had an injured player on their entire list the majority of the year. Incredible luck on the injury front

Love this one. The tigers had quite a decent injury list in 2017. That's why we had the midget forward line. Why Townsend played. Why Nankervis was sole ruck. The Crows had a great injury run all year.

What is true is that the Tigers had their key players uninjured come finals. That was awesome. But it was a normal injury year - plenty of guys out, but covered well.

 

[Grrr]

Must take into account the injury run Richmond has. They hardly had an injured player on their entire list the majority of the year. Incredible luck on the injury front

This is a shallow often repeated analysis.
Go through our major players in Martin, Cotchin, Riewoldt (missed 2) and Rance. Between them they have hardly missed a game between them in years. Against that, Grimes and Astbury, who were great all year finally got on the park after years of injury.
Shane Edwards missed 5, Houli 4, Vlaustin 9, all three got better and better as the season went. So you could say other than Rance, our back line has missed heaps of games over the last few years. Conca playing HB had a really good first 6 games before missing the rest of the season.
Griffiths played 2 games all year due to concussion. Who knows what he would have been like as a player if he wasn't constantly injured. Caddy missed 3. Prestia 3 (and many of those early he wasn't fit).
Also players like Broad who played the last 10 games got a gig because of injury and cemented his spot. 19 year old Graham has played 5 games, due to not even getting on the park until Rd.13 due to a hamstring, he spent 8 weeks in a moon boot during the season. Butler an Castagna and Nankervis were pretty much first year players. We played the equal most player of any club during the season, (38 from memory) and delisted about 5 players that got games this year. Adelaide played 28 for the entire season, but did lose two good ones in the finals.We don't hear the injury free excuse about Adelaide.
We copped injuries to good players, our stars stayed on the park and we introduced some gun youngsters. About normal.

 

[hoianbulldog]

Why's that? Because the competition got better and they were relying on poor players hitting good form not the star power the Tigers have.

We were 2 games from swans who finished on top. Poor players out of form do not get you to that point.

Then we went bang, bang, band and bang to win a premiership.

 

[Heaps of fun]

We were 2 games from swans who finished on top. Poor players out of form do not get you to that point.

Then we went bang, bang, band and bang to win a premiership.

Wait how did you win the premiership? Bang bang?

 

[Lsta062]

Why top 3 priority pick specifically? Genuine question.

Probably because we had an end-of-first priority pick in Rance at pick 18. So we didn't win the flag without having a priority pick on our list Not as big of an advantage as having a priority pick in the top 3 picks though.

Because he needed to shift the goal posts to support his argument.
Cotchin and Martin were top 3 picks and Alex Rance was a priority pick.

Granted, this is just my opinion, but I I'd rate those 3 as fairly solid contributers to the Richmond flag.

Cotchin and Martin were obtained because we finished lowly though, not through a priority pick.

 

[barracoutta]

these type threads keep popping up, downplaying the significance of the bulldogs and then tigers premiership. personally I try not to chime in, I don't want to throw it into opposition supporters faces. I know follow board members have been very forward with their opinions and the fact that while others downplay it as best they can we are on top of that tree until at least the season proper starts again. Opposition supporters will continue to either try and downplay what these teams have achieved in response to the over zealous posts - some of these will be genuine trolls and also genuine opinions and nothing can be proven till the season is underway.

are bulldogs and tigers the prince of penzance of the football world, maybe - it could be argued forever. Bulldogs had a lean 2017 which gives some creedence to that argument. But for the tigers we can only wait and see but I feel for those currently downplaying the Richmond squad as a genuine threat in 2018 because if they do happen to back up in 2018 this board is going to go into meltdown! if we do back up with the same style and pressure does this give them the respect deserved and possibly a comparison to the top recent sides to win the premiership?

 

[kranky al]

View attachment 461818

I’ll just leave this here.

Maybe we should look at the things that make our Premiership more impressive.

Overhauled our game plan and managed to execute it more often than not and have it lead us to a flag. Usually it takes rebuilding teams years to be able to have a game plan bear any fruit. Granted we had a lot of established players, we also played with a lot of guys in their 1st or 2nd year of senior footy.

Love the argument we were lucky because we ‘put it together at the right time of the year’. Maybe the side just started to click and have the game plan become more embedded towards the back half of the year?

Hope for the rest of the competitions sake that we don’t pick up where we left off and continue to improve our game plan and execute more consistently in its second year of use.

Because we made the rest of the top 4 look silly in September.

What about a list of teams whove won a premiership from 4th that didnt play an away game to get there.

Think your lot are unique there too.

 

[Morris Major]

Has anyone ever one a premiership with a priority pick? I can't think of one.

Hawthorn (Jarryd Roughead)
Collingwood (Daisy Thomas)

Unless you meant something else, then play on

 

[kranky al]

Wait how did you win the premiership? Bang bang?

They sure f#%^% us

Ive never left a live game more shellshocked and disbelieving.

 

[Lsta062]

Love the argument we were lucky because we ‘put it together at the right time of the year’. Maybe the side just started to click and have the game plan become more embedded towards the back half of the year?

Yeah, that is probably what happened in my opinion. Hardwick himself said at the beginning of last year that it may take a while for our players to get used to our new gameplan. Not only that, but we played with a structure that we were not used to nor were seeking to have in the small forward line. We started the season off with Griffiths as our second tall and then tried Elton and Soldo as our second tall when Griffiths went out injured. It is only then that we decided to scrap the 2nd tall altogether and stuck with a smaller forward line and midfielders as our "2nd tall".

The time that we officially ended the search for a second tall to support Riewoldt was Round 22 against Fremantle in Domain Stadium, when we replaced Soldo with Townsend in our forward line. Soldo was technically a ruck, but he'd also rest forward. From there, we kicked 155 in Round 22 (vs Fremantle), 122 in Round 23 (vs St Kilda), 91 in the QF (vs Geelong), 103 in the PF (vs GWS) and 108 in the GF (vs Adelaide).

It took us that long to actually find a forward structure that worked, so if we start the season with a sound forward structure (keeping someone like Townsend or finding a tall forward in Balta or C.Moore), then we can definitely improve on last year in my opinion.

 

[Martin#4]

What about a list of teams whove won a premiership from 4th that didnt play an away game to get there.

Think your lot are unique there too.

I assume you mean against Geelong who have played all their home finals against other Victorian sides at the MCG?

Because it can’t surely be the Grand Final as that has been a known quantity, and will continue to be a known quantity, for a long long time.

We won our QF so the Prelim was our home final.

No wonder WCE fans have a reputation as sooks. Your constant tears continue to amuse.

 

[Martin#4]

Because he needed to shift the goal posts to support his argument.
Cotchin and Martin were top 3 picks and Alex Rance was a priority pick.

Granted, this is just my opinion, but I I'd rate those 3 as fairly solid contributers to the Richmond flag.

Top 3 picks received in the regular draft order. Rance was taken at the beginning of the second round. Hardly the value of getting a second pick inside the first 3.

How many father-sons did Geelong have during its golden era of 07-11 that we’re gained through huge discounts/concessions?

Our entire list has been built organically through the draft and trading picks for undervalued players at other clubs (Grigg, Houli, Nankervis etc).

 

[Rich01]

Geelong, Adelaide and West Coast supporters are the top three posters in this thread.

After all their whinging over the last few months, there’s no surprises there.

Geelong supporter is adament Richmond of 2017 doesn’t compare to Geelong premiership sides of the last few years.

Adelaide supporter is whinging about free kicks in the grand final (apparently there is a video).

West Coast supporter is whinging about the inequities of playing the grand final at the MCG.

I’m sure I’ve heard all this in a thread or ten before.

 

[Martin#4]

Geelong, Adelaide and West Coast supporters are the top three posters in this thread.

After all their whinging over the last few months, there’s no surprises there.

Seemed to have touched a nerve. Obviously the clear home ground advantage they get during the H&A season (as opposed to teams that have home grounds with multiple tenants) regularly finds them falling short when the whips are cracking in the real stuff.

Inferiority complex maybe?

 

[JackFlash]

Very little between them, i expect the Dogs to improve this year and the Tigers to fall, both teams have very few A graders, but have a balanced over all team.
The Tigers have Martin, Cotchin and Rance in the upper echelon, the rest are a bunch of good ordinary footballers...Can Hardwick discover a couple more A graders and ensure the Tigers don't fall like the Dogs? Richmond fans won't agree, but I reckon the Tigers are 50/50 to make the 8. I can't leave them out just yet, but it wouldn't surprise me if they came a complete cropper this year!
As for the Dogs, the "Bont" is a gun and has Brownlow written all over him, but who will help him out, who will step up in 2018, they could also miss out again?
History tells us, winning a flag is one thing, following it up is another.....

 

[HTT]

What about a list of teams whove won a premiership from 4th that didnt play an away game to get there.

Think your lot are unique there too.

Very unique. So unique we're not a part of that subset.

 

[Shazza_]

lol @ Carlton mod . I guess u go a bit loopy when you support such a rabble

 

[tigertigertiger]

both 10/10

 

[Tiger2709]

Is quite a drop in premiership standards from what we have seen primarily from 07-11.

We had three runner ups that won 20 games or more for the season which is insane when you think about it. ( Geelong 08, Collingwood 11, St Kilda 09)

Quite a few of the top four sides from those years would also easily take out the flag the past two years.

We do know that some clubs were getting assistance fron Dank during their glory years, do you think that may be a part of the reason for the smaller bodies in the last two years and had they not had the benefit of now banned supplements these clubs may not have won thevflags they did yet alone being able to match the Dogs or Tigers?

 

[Tiger2709]

Must take into account the injury run Richmond has. They hardly had an injured player on their entire list the majority of the year. Incredible luck on the injury front

Yeah we only lost all of our back up talls and had to adjust our forward line to having just one target, incredibly lucky

 

[hoianbulldog]

Wait how did you win the premiership? Bang bang?

It translates to played better in finals. Winning first 9 means jack. Winning the last one matters.

 

[Tiger2709]

Adelaide were clearly the better side last year. Run a poll if you don't believe me.

That takes nothing away from Richmonds flag. In a way it even enhances it.

But that said, you guys got a dream run come September. Not taking anything away from you, a bit of luck helps sometimes. Heck Carltons last GF appearance in '99 we only got in due to the AFL ripping off West Coast (they changed the rules the year after) and then knocking over Essendon in the Prelim by a point (and Essendon that year were also clearly better than us).

My point was, I still dont see Richmond as a dominant side notwithstanding your premiership last year.

All clubs need a large chunk of luck to win a flag, we peaked at just the right time and dominated the rest of the top 4 through the finals but the plans were in place before the season began, the fact that most underrated us cpme the finals helped immensely.

Having said that we also had the best player for the year, the best Captain and the best backline in the comp and defense usually wins finals so it certainly wasn't a fluke

 

[Engimal v3]

Wait how did you win the premiership? Bang bang?

No, can't you read? They went bang, bang, band and bang

 

[Tiger2709]

What about a list of teams whove won a premiership from 4th that didnt play an away game to get there.

Think your lot are unique there too.

We finished 3rd not 4th and played games as they have always been played, by continuing to win we earned the home games, the GF is always played at the G so nothing was different than when the Eagles won flags.

 

[Boston tiger]

What about a list of teams whove won a premiership from 4th that didnt play an away game to get there.

Think your lot are unique there too.

Richmond won a premiership in 1969 from fourth.
2017 they won from 3rd.