International Cup in Melbourne 2008

[WFN2004]

If the moderators don't mind, I thought I'd drop this thread on the main board. Although it's related to international footy, it is very relevant to all the fans in Melbourne because the International Cup will be in Melbourne in August/September 2008. So I'd like to encourage you all to start thinking about which team you might want to support and think about getting along to some games next year. Obviously it isn't AFL standard but there will be plenty of solid amateur footy with players from around the world putting it all on the line for their country. Critically I reckon it's make or break for Melbourne - if it's the home of footy and people are passionate about the game, not just their club, then it's important for people to get out and support the game, otherwise maybe Perth or somewhere else should host it. That's just my opinion.

It'll probably be split into a main premier division and a developing nations division (for the very new countries). The proposed dates are:

The Proposed Dates (subject to change)

Wednesday 27 August Round 1 Melbourne
Friday 29 August Round 2 Melbourne
Friday 29 or Saturday 30 August Official function, Melbourne (depends on AFL fixture)
Friday 29 or Saturday 30 August Parade of teams at AFL match (depends on AFL fixture)
Sunday 31 August Travel to regional Victoria
Monday 1 September Round 3 regional Victoria
Monday 1 September Casual function regional Victoria Wednesday 3 September Semi Finals regional Victoria
Thursday 4 September Travel back to Melbourne
Saturday 6 September Finals (*)

* Opportunity for Grand Final to be played as curtain raiser to AFL final will depend on finals fixture which will not be confirmed until after Round 22 of 2008.

More info at: Cup dates proposed as AFL considers divisions

 

[fishmonger]

Thanks WFN.

I'll be there with bells on.

I'm looking forward to seeing some potential AFL recruits in action this time around. Particular interest in PNG, NZ and South Africa. There may be a young superstar in the making amongst them.

I've already booked my holidays in advance ... don't want to take any risks at my work. Hopefully the dates don't change and as many countries can make it as possible.

In 2005, I made the mistake of trying to attend the games outside of work hours but found it near impossible. I ended up only being able to make it to 2 finals games which were played on weekends ...

Fingers crossed that the Junction Oval is a likely venue. That would be ace.

As much as I love the fact that it is here in Melbourne, I really couldn't blame Adelaide or Perth for thinking they could do a better job of it. Hopefully the media here gives the event the exposure it deserves.

 

[Sebastian Balboa]

Thanks WFN.

I'll be there with bells on.

I'm looking forward to seeing some potential AFL recruits in action this time around. Particular interest in PNG, NZ and South Africa. There may be a young superstar in the making amongst them.

I've already booked my holidays in advance ... don't want to take any risks at my work. Hopefully the dates don't change and as many countries can make it as possible.

In 2005, I made the mistake of trying to attend the games outside of work hours but found it near impossible. I ended up only being able to make it to 2 finals games which were played on weekends ...

Fingers crossed that the Junction Oval is a likely venue. That would be ace.

As much as I love the fact that it is here in Melbourne, I really couldn't blame Adelaide or Perth for thinking they could do a better job of it. Hopefully the media here gives the event the exposure it deserves.

Gotta love this.
I'm the same. The past two years and again this year my 2-3 week break from work is set in concrete for the last weekend in September. I'm the only footy freak at my work so this helps. (But I'll probably miss the 2008 IC.)

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Its good to see the AFL perservering with this tournament. Maybe they could assist further in helping some of the countries struggling for the finances required. That Denmark didn't make it is a pity, as their league is reputed to be one of the better ones. And if some of the costs were covered, Germany might reconsider.
I saw some of the final of the first tournament (played before North and Hawthorn at the MCG). While the standard was clearly not that of most leagues in Australia, there were glimpses of untapped raw talent; particularly in the PNG team; that night.

 

[WFN2004]

And PNG should have some young guys that are much more polished than last time out. And we might just see the tip of South Africa's surge - certainly they should be pretty good next time around - which isn't until 2012 - so go along and watch this Cup or wait an awful long time before the next.

The AFL will look to try to cover some costs but flights is always the biggest component.

The countries considering attending are believed to be:

Previous attendees that have expressed an interest -

New Zealand
Papua New Guinea
United States
Ireland
Samoa
Britain
Canada
South Africa
Japan
Spain
Denmark
Nauru


Newcomers that have expressed an interest -

China
Croatia
Czech Republic
Pakistan
Sweden
Tonga
Finland
Catalonia (preliminary discussions)

 

[fishmonger]

And PNG should have some young guys that are much more polished than last time out. And we might just see the tip of South Africa's surge - certainly they should be pretty good next time around - which isn't until 2012 - so go along and watch this Cup or wait an awful long time before the next.

The AFL will look to try to cover some costs but flights is always the biggest component.

The countries considering attending are believed to be:

Previous attendees that have expressed an interest -

New Zealand
Papua New Guinea
United States
Ireland
Samoa
Britain
Canada
South Africa
Japan
Spain
Denmark
Nauru


Newcomers that have expressed an interest -

China
Croatia
Czech Republic
Pakistan
Sweden
Tonga
Finland
Catalonia (preliminary discussions)

nice bump.

Would be good if we can keep this thread going a bit. Post some upcoming news on the Cup.

I noticed that the AFL updated their international development pages.

http://www.afl.com.au/GameDevelopment/International/InternationalCup

Would be nice if this page had something more on it though. They still have the 2005 logo up there.

A new logo would be cool, the current one looks a bit 1990s.
But I guess the way it looks at the moment I suppose they can't really design it until they confirm which countries will be attending.

Any news as to whether it will officially be called the Tom Wills Trophy ?

Also, is there any news on a proposed women's division ?

 

[Philhawk]

In all seriousness, why can't the next International Rules series be played in Sydney?

It's a crappy sport, but a good spectacle - with Sydney based AFL fans like myself eager to see the alleged 'best of the AFL' take on the 'foreigners'.

I'd definitely go see it and I daresay it'd be good for AFL in general up in Sydney if it were held here.

 

[Father Jack]

In all seriousness, why can't the next International Rules series be played in Sydney?

It's a crappy sport, but a good spectacle - with Sydney based AFL fans like myself eager to see the alleged 'best of the AFL' take on the 'foreigners'.

I'd definitely go see it and I daresay it'd be good for AFL in general up in Sydney if it were held here.

Except we aren't talking about International Rules ...

 

[fishmonger]

In all seriousness, why can't the next International Rules series be played in Sydney?

It's a crappy sport, but a good spectacle - with Sydney based AFL fans like myself eager to see the alleged 'best of the AFL' take on the 'foreigners'.

I'd definitely go see it and I daresay it'd be good for AFL in general up in Sydney if it were held here.

International Rules is gone - kaput. So forget about it. Would be a crap sport without tackling, and practically Gaelic Football (which is the only way the GAA would allow it to return). And holding it in Sydney would be a joke, making our code a laughing stock. I say good riddence.

The International Cup is the future.
I'd highly recommend coming to Melbourne for it.
If people get behind it, one day we may one day see the All-Australian team take on South Africa in 2020. Then maybe it could be held in Sydney.

 

[WFN2004]

Not sure if International Rules is completely dead yet, will have to wait and see. Not suer why Philhawk said "In all seriousness...". That suggests this thread or the International Cup isn't serious?

We'll have more info on the International Cup later, but no, I don't think there will be a women's division, and I don't think calling the cup the Tom Wills Trophy has ever been on the cards - not sure where you got that from?

Maybe that'll be the name when/if there's a full World Cup oneday.

The logo is likely to be very similar but I've certainly put my 10 cents worth in to suggest that it at least have some extra colour to distinguish from it previous Cups. Don't know if that will happen or not.

Fish, the link you had didn't work for me. I think this is what you wanted:

http://prod.www.afl.cfour.com.au/GameDevelopment/International/tabid/285/Default.aspx

or

http://prod.www.afl.cfour.com.au/Ga...ional/InternationalCup/tabid/549/Default.aspx

As for the overall lack of discussion on this thread - perhaps we're flogging a dead horse. Only when the draft picks start flowing from PNG and South Africa will larger numbers of people start to realise there's some increasingly serious footy overseas. But it does reinforce the idea, in my mind at least, that people love their club as opposed to the sport of footy itself.

 

[finders]

Bring it on! Im looking forward to seeing the new young talent from countries like PNG,South Africa and Samoa places where our game seems to be slowly catching on.

 

[MRobbo]

I went to most games in 2002 and 2005 and had a ball!

Bring on 2008 it will be great

 

[wizardcupfinalblues]

They are enjoyable to watch

 

[cos789]

In all seriousness, why can't the next International Rules series be played in Sydney?

I would dearly love to see the lead up games spread around the country
but is does add to accomodation and flight costs , even though IMO there are ways around those issues .

.

 

[Jascave]

I went to a couple of games in the 2002 International Cup and really enjoyed it. What do you guys on the forum think of the idea to have the Australian Amateurs Under-23 team take on New Zealand in a one-off match, a forerunner to possible Trans-Tasman matches later in the future? After all if rugby union, league, netball and cricket have Australia-NZ rivalry-why can't Australian Rules Football, at grassroots level at least?

 

[pazza]

The success of it last year tells me this will be a huge hit again.

I noticed a story about the Japanese lad from the last effort (and his time at Essendon and up Wodonga way) is now umpiring (Sporting Life in Age last week).

On an Australian Amateurs v New Zealand thing - I was proud to umpire the NZ tour here in 2001 against TAC Cup under 16 squads. Big boys beleive me - though i'm not sure about their kicking style. One of them was playing in the Hampden League at the time.

And I'm not sure under the current Amateur representative footy structure, there would be room enough for it - or a squad able to be picked.

 

[A Living God]

I went to a couple of games in the 2002 International Cup and really enjoyed it. What do you guys on the forum think of the idea to have the Australian Amateurs Under-23 team take on New Zealand in a one-off match, a forerunner to possible Trans-Tasman matches later in the future? After all if rugby union, league, netball and cricket have Australia-NZ rivalry-why can't Australian Rules Football, at grassroots level at least?

The comp will start just after the finish of the H&A season finishes for most of local leagues. A team from either EFL, EDFL, NFL (2nd division), WRFL or SFL that hasn't made the finals could be selected to represent Australia. The VAFA and NFL (1st division) season wouldn't have finished at that point.

 

[Frederlick]

Thanks. Will check it out, has to be better than the joke that International Rules has become.

 

[Jascave]

It would be interesting to see how the Australians reacted to the famous Maori haka performed by the All Blacks if they played against NZ in a one-off match, possibly as a forerunner to future Trans-Tasman matches. If there was a Trans-Tasman series, this is how the program would look like:

AUSTRALIA V NZ

First Test-Adelaide (AAMI Stadium)
Second Test-Perth (Subiaco Oval)
Third Test-Melbourne (MCG)

I would suggest this to the AFL-forget Ireland. Try playing against the Kiwis, even though they might lose, they'll give the Australians a run for the money. I actually saw the NZ Under 21 team here in 2001, and they were good. What about the haka-how scary was that! Now we know what the Wallabies had to put up with when they face the All Blacks before the Bledisloe Cup!!!

 

[Rob]

It would be interesting to see how the Australians reacted to the famous Maori haka performed by the All Blacks if they played against NZ in a one-off match, possibly as a forerunner to future Trans-Tasman matches. If there was a Trans-Tasman series, this is how the program would look like:

AUSTRALIA V NZ

First Test-Adelaide (AAMI Stadium)
Second Test-Perth (Subiaco Oval)
Third Test-Melbourne (MCG)

I would suggest this to the AFL-forget Ireland. Try playing against the Kiwis, even though they might lose, they'll give the Australians a run for the money. I actually saw the NZ Under 21 team here in 2001, and they were good. What about the haka-how scary was that! Now we know what the Wallabies had to put up with when they face the All Blacks before the Bledisloe Cup!!!

Even though they might lose?

They might not lose by over 300 points if they're lucky and Australia has about half a dozen blokes stretchered off.

 

[WFN2004]

Ah the classic dilemma for proponents of international footy. Some people think they don't play Aussie Rules overseas, and we try to convince them otherwise, then the next thing we know people are talking about countries playing against Australia's best!

No, Australia won't be playing NZ or anyone else in the next 10 years (or likely many more). The AFL is already so far above the next tier, and the gap is growing. If Australia plays anyone in the next 20 years I'd guess it would be Australia versus the Rest of the World, where the ROTW would be drawn mostly from overseas players that would be playing in the AFL. Not just overseas born (who might well consider themselves Australian and so not want to play against Australia) but rather the Irish recruits and players that learnt the game in other countries like PNG and South Africa.

There is a loose council for amateur footy in Australia:

http://www.aafc.com.au

So yes, Australia could field an under 23 team, and I reckon that is on the right track, but the top countries are probably not likely to provide a reasonable contest until say the next Cup, in 2012 (it's going to a 4 year cycle after 2008). So MAYBE in 2012 the top countries might be PNG, RSA, USA and NZ, and MAYBE an Australian amateur under 21 side wouldn't be out of place. Development will have to continue strongly in those countries though. But it'd certainly get people more interested if there was some kind of Australian side involved.

Good to see this thread coming to life a bit more!

 

[fishmonger]

Ah the classic dilemma for proponents of international footy. Some people think they don't play Aussie Rules overseas, and we try to convince them otherwise, then the next thing we know people are talking about countries playing against Australia's best!

It really doesn't hurt anyone WFN.

It is visionaries that international footy needs, not skeptics. There are enough of them already.

At least if we know that there is a possibility that it will happen someday, people will get excited about it.

As to whether we can expect more than a few hundred people to attend an international match in Melbourne unless it is a curtain raiser ? Well, that's another story.

I'd like to see the AFL start to charge admission for these matches. They're really underselling it at the moment. Sure, it isn't AFL, but plenty of people pay to watch amateur football. People are generally skeptical of something's value if it is free. Look at the $10 entry fee for the Gridiron world Cup qualifier on the Central Coast, or the $50 to see rugby Sevens matches at the Commonwealth Games. Not sure how many tickets the Gridiron sold, but the rugby tickets all sold out and it even got me wanting to go even though I know that Australia vs countries like Sri-Lanka (who can barely assemble a team) was going to be a whitewash. I would have thought that a money hungry organisation like the AFL would be keen to scrape up any dollars they could get from the average punter. Unless of course, they are a Mickey Mouse governing body with little interest in promoting the international aspects of our game.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Certainly, the AFL could be promoting it much more than they have in the past.
I'm not so sure about charging entry, and most of the grounds used tend to open to the public anyway. I can see the logic in terms of perhaps getting the public value to the event more, but it might also drive away the casual observer who just happens to have little else to do and is drawn by curiosity on the day.

Anyway, the important thing is that it happens at all. And that the game is slowly growing, albeit with setbacks and teething problems in some places. Sure, its still mostly ex-pats filling the local leagues in many countries - though not for this tournament - but it has to start somewhere and that is the only realistic way. And there are locals playing the game in each of these nations, or they couldn't field a team.

 

[WFN2004]

It really doesn't hurt anyone WFN.

It is visionaries that international footy needs, not skeptics. There are enough of them already.

But we do need to be realistic - when people cry wolf over and over then most people stop listening to them. There's a difference between visionary and someone just talking rubbish or navel gazing (that isn't aiming at anyone above, I'm just talking in general). Actually even "visionary" is over-rated in my opinion - most people can dream up what they'd like to see, none of this is rocket science, it's actually putting in the work to make things happen that is more important.

Anyway that's just a philosophical point.

A debate was had a few years ago on the USFooty forum about whether to charge for an amateur event. I agree it may actually undervalue it by not charging. If the grounds are enclosed then a $5 or less entry fee to see a double-header (the way they were staged last time) wouldn't be unreasonable. I doubt it would scare too many people away, and most casual walking-by spectators probably wouldn't go into a stadium either way (different say to Murphy Reserve where some games were staged last time). And ultimately the more the event covers its own costs the more money will be spent on it.

 

[BIGBEZ]

Imagine a big Tongan Chief, just plonking himself in the goal square, or an African in full flight down the wing etc, a little crazy kamakaze Jap going in ander under the packs, sound interesting, worth a look!