Irish experiment

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M

Mansons Haircut

Team Captain
Jan 5, 2008
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AFL Club
Collingwood
I think at end of this season we can start to judge how successful this has been. Marty will have played 4 seasons, Cribbin 2 and Mooney 1. So far I think benefit has outweighed cost but if Marty plays 100+ games and one of the other boys ends up with 50 then I'd call it a big success. Beyond that it becomes a raging success.
Bearing in kind that so far (apart from financial and coaching resources that come outside draft and is where we have an edge on most teams) the cost has been 4 last rookie picks (one was on Dyas) and the trade to get Marty back (plus Elliot) just wondering what other peoples thoughts are so far and expectations?
 
I guess apart from recruiting Marty again through GWS all it's cost the club is money, development and spots on the rookie list so like you said even having Clarke come through it's a win. The only way it's a loss is if one of them drags the club down, because even trying IMO is worth it.

As for expectations, I expect Marty to make it back into the 22, that's about it. I hope that Cribbin and Mooney make it (I have more hope for Mooney than Cribbin) but there's a lot of water to go under the bridge before you can talk about games in the seniors.
 
Aren't the Irish rookies outside the standard rookie list?

In that case all they're doing is taking away spots that might otherwise go to players from ... I dunno ... Bangladesh.

And on the money / resources / coaching side of things - the club has made a profit and the only thing they're allowed to do with it is spend it.

No brainer really - even if there's a one in a hundred chance an Irish player will kick the winning goal in a game, it's an exercise worth doing for a club with an embarrassment of riches.
 

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76woodenspooners said:
Aren't the Irish rookies outside the standard rookie list?
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Other international rookies don't, but Irish ones ount against te main rookie list number, despite being recruited in the same way.

Even then, I think that international rookies are only outside the main rookie list number for their first year. So you are sacrificing the opportunity to draft another player to bring in an Irish kid, and that has to be weighed up against what you get out of it.

You would expect a higher strike rate and a better average quality in Irish players over regular rookie listed players for it to be worth pursuing, and for us the jury is still out on that.
 
Vinnie Vegas said:
You would expect a higher strike rate and a better average quality in Irish players over regular rookie listed players for it to be worth pursuing, and for us the jury is still out on that.
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This. They need to be weighed against all the other rookies out there because ultimately that is who they have beaten off the list.

With Marty his value needs to be weighed against the first round pick we had to use to bring him back to the club. I agree with the decision but whether it comes off only time will tell.
 
Quicky said:
This. They need to be weighed against all the other rookies out there because ultimately that is who they have beaten off the list.

With Marty his value needs to be weighed against the first round pick we had to use to bring him back to the club. I agree with the decision but whether it comes off only time will tell.
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This is probably the best summary of the situation really.

With Marty the "Irish Experiment" was undoubtedly a success. Collingwood got him IIRC before the rules regarding Irish players being part of the main list were brought in so he was considered a true international rookie. To get a 46 game (of varying, but generally decent quality) player who got a RS nomination out of a regular rookie would probably be considered a success, to get one out of an intenational rookie is a massive win.

Clarke's second AFL incarnation should not be considered part of the Irish Experiment, as he has been recruited as a known quantity, who has a proven record at AFL level. The success of Marty - Part II should be measured against what Collingwood would have gotten for the pick they gave up to get him (obviously taking any Yagmoor output into account also). The club picked up Marty second time around with their eyes wide open, for a considerable price and the success or failure should be judged without any regard to the fact that he is an Irish player.

I'm convinced that at least one of Mooney or Cribbin will make the grade, and if they do then I would say the club will be very happy. 2 out of 3 is a better than average return for rookie-listed players, Irish or not. At least the club have gone about recruiting their Irish players in the right manner, clearly pinpointing elite talents (all of the three were outstanding underage players) and approaching them directly rather than dealing with the likes of Ricky Nixon's free-for-all camps.

For those doubting the potential of Cribbin, from what I heard he struggled with trying to build up the necessary bulk required initially and had a couple of injuries but he's gotten considerably bigger over the last few months and will obviously benefit from another pre-season and obviously the games he played last year will help develop his games sense. He's a fantastic athlete and I think he might surprise a few people this year once he plays a few more games.

Mooney will be a star if he can develop his ball skills because the kid is lightning...probably the fastest player I've ever seen carry a ball in Gaelic Football :footy:
 
Seldom Seen Kid said:
Clarke's second AFL incarnation should not be considered part of the Irish Experiment, as he has been recruited as a known quantity, who has a proven record at AFL level. The success of Marty - Part II should be measured against what Collingwood would have gotten for the pick they gave up to get him (obviously taking any Yagmoor output into account also). The club picked up Marty second time around with their eyes wide open, for a considerable price and the success or failure should be judged without any regard to the fact that he is an Irish player.
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So Someone like Ross and Elton
 

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76woodenspooners said:
Aren't the Irish rookies outside the standard rookie list?

In that case all they're doing is taking away spots that might otherwise go to players from ... I dunno ... Bangladesh.

And on the money / resources / coaching side of things - the club has made a profit and the only thing they're allowed to do with it is spend it.

No brainer really - even if there's a one in a hundred chance an Irish player will kick the winning goal in a game, it's an exercise worth doing for a club with an embarrassment of riches.
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Irish recruits are inside the rookie list (total max of 6 rookies 2012 then reverting to max 4 rookies 2013). The only players outside CFC 2012 rookie list are Shae (Intl Rookie) & Hartley (NSW Scholarship).
 
Timmy from Thomastown said:
It hasnt been an experiment for decades.

Jim Stynes won a Brownlow, Tagh Keneally won a premiership, and many other Irish players have made an impact over the years.
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True but it is a pretty new recruiting option from a Collingwood perspective. Thats what the OP is saying. We are getting to the point where we can begin to judge our success (or lack of) with the Irish guys at the end of this season.
 
With the rookie list being reduced from 6 to 4 in 2013 season, the selection of Irish recruits cannot afford to be a speculative selection. They will have to measure up to other potential rookie list players within Australia. I think that clubs will be very careful in the future (unless the AFL change the rules & allow Irish rookies to be outside the rookie list).
 
DermiesLuvChild said:
With the rookie list being reduced from 6 to 4 in 2013 season, the selection of Irish recruits cannot afford to be a speculative selection. They will have to measure up to other potential rookie list players within Australia. I think that clubs will be very careful in the future (unless the AFL change the rules & allow Irish rookies to be outside the rookie list).
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Any of Clarke, Cribbin and Mooney measure up very favourably with other rookies. Dyas was probably the most speculative of the lot but at the time we had a very big rookie list to utilise. I think with the cuts to the rookie list, a rule change I really dislike, I don't think we would have taken the chance on Dyas.
 
DermiesLuvChild said:
With the rookie list being reduced from 6 to 4 in 2013 season, the selection of Irish recruits cannot afford to be a speculative selection. They will have to measure up to other potential rookie list players within Australia. I think that clubs will be very careful in the future (unless the AFL change the rules & allow Irish rookies to be outside the rookie list).
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I think it'd be very unlikely the AFL would change the rules to put (for example) one Irish rookie outside of the rookie list. If they did, it would in effect lead to the AFL poaching 18 of the best Gaelic players going around.

And the GAA wouldn't be too happy about that.

And I'd imagine the AFL would rather have a good relationship with the GAA.
 
76woodenspooners said:
I think it'd be very unlikely the AFL would change the rules to put (for example) one Irish rookie outside of the rookie list. If they did, it would in effect lead to the AFL poaching 18 of the best Gaelic players going around.

And the GAA wouldn't be too happy about that.

And I'd imagine the AFL would rather have a good relationship with the GAA.
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It's why the rule exists. Irish players used to be considered international rookies and hence outside the rookie list. The AFL did a goodwill deal with the GAA to change the definition of "international rookie" to exclude Irish players. This was to ensure there wasn't a free-for-all with clubs poaching Gaelic players.
 
I am a massive fan of Marty Clarke. His transition into AFL was nothing short of astounding. No other player has taken to it so quickly. His 3rd Q in the 2007 PF, the hottest game of that season was unbelievable when you consider he was in his 1st season of the game.

His next 2 seasons , esp 2009 , dropped off but I believe the reasons for that are now behind him. I expect him to quickly restablish a place in the 22 and become an A grader in the future
 
blaze036 said:
Why does the AFL care about upsetting the GAA? lets get the best for our league
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You don't really understand the GAA do you? The core ethos of the organisation is that it is very much community based and all of the players have close ties to their home club/county. If players felt that going to try AFL would damage relationships at home with teammates they grew up with, fans, club members etc and create animosity, they would be far more reluctant to come over.

Believe me on this, the best way to ensure that there is opportunities for clubs like Collingwood to continue to secure the best talents is to maintain good relations with the GAA.
 

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