- Oct 24, 2011
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In a bid to present this question without prejudice, I will avoid sharing my personal arguments/thoughts just yet. What do you all think?
Politics Is Education better off Privatised?
- Thread starter darth_timon
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If all schools were private schools, would we still be able to keep the poor kids seperate?
I can appreciate the reason for keeping the question succinct, but I think it does need a bit more meat on the bone.
Would greater competition between schools improve education more generally? Probably yes, but not by very much at all. Probably not worth the hassle. Would privatisation lead to greater efficiencies in the sector? Again, maybe. But not worth the hassle.
To narrow the question a bit, does competition within the private school marketplace improve private schools as a collective? Probably yes. Evidence suggests that socio-economic status is a much more reliable indicator of literacy and numeracy outcomes, so on a macro level the privatisation of education for a third of the population doesn't seem to count for much, but we also know/are told that school funding is an extremely important contributor to such and private schools are much better funded, so maybe funding doesn't seem to predict outcomes very well either?
Probably Probably Probably. There are a list of external factors longer than your arm that has an influence as well.
I can appreciate the reason for keeping the question succinct, but I think it does need a bit more meat on the bone.
Would greater competition between schools improve education more generally? Probably yes, but not by very much at all. Probably not worth the hassle. Would privatisation lead to greater efficiencies in the sector? Again, maybe. But not worth the hassle.
To narrow the question a bit, does competition within the private school marketplace improve private schools as a collective? Probably yes. Evidence suggests that socio-economic status is a much more reliable indicator of literacy and numeracy outcomes, so on a macro level the privatisation of education for a third of the population doesn't seem to count for much, but we also know/are told that school funding is an extremely important contributor to such and private schools are much better funded, so maybe funding doesn't seem to predict outcomes very well either?
Probably Probably Probably. There are a list of external factors longer than your arm that has an influence as well.
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Privatisation of all schools would mean some kids going without an education, so I'd say no.
I also think the availability and government funding of private schools is a good thing to provide choices. The taxpayer funds plenty of choices already and I don't see why education should be different.
I also think the availability and government funding of private schools is a good thing to provide choices. The taxpayer funds plenty of choices already and I don't see why education should be different.
- Oct 24, 2011
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Fair enough, I probably should have added more details.
The nuts and bolts of where I'm coming from are rooted in a discussion with someone who absolutely does not trust government involvement in education. They are American, would vote for Trump at the next election, and deeply religious. They view the Department of Education as a form of socialism, which he passionately decries. I believe his view is that turning education over to a corporate model would serve it better. I suspect the hidden truth of his reasoning lies more in that he doesn't like what gets taught in the public classroom. To him, there is not enough 'Godly goodness', and he would prefer more parental control over teaching.
My own personal view is that public-run education systems generally score very highly. The current US system, the UK system, the Australian system, and the systems in Nordic countries, as well as the likes of Japan, all run world-renowned state education systems, with the option to go private should someone wish to. It would cost most families considerably more to turn to private education as it stands, and the irony is that my opponent in this case would still want/expect government funding in the form of vouchers for families, to help assist a national private school model.
In other words, he does not want taxpayer's money funding public schools, but does not object to it funding private schools (it's no co-incidence that many private schools in the US are also religious schools, and I believe my opponent is quite happy for greater religious involvement in education, even if this violates the First Amendment.
I hope that provides more of an explanation for this thread.
Hell no. If I were supreme dictator, I'd nationalise every single private school, take their resources and redistribute them, so that every school can have nice things rather than a small few having luxuries.
Since that won't happen, I'll settle for the elimination of all public funding from any private and/or religious school. You want to hold your own values, fine, but you can do it without my tax money. I don't care if that creates a higher burden for the government overall, the principle is worth the cost.
Since that won't happen, I'll settle for the elimination of all public funding from any private and/or religious school. You want to hold your own values, fine, but you can do it without my tax money. I don't care if that creates a higher burden for the government overall, the principle is worth the cost.
While I'm sure some Australians would like all education privatised, it seems like an odd and uncontroversial question to ask here. I presume most of those who strongly oppose the funding of public schools for religious reasons would be eager to homeschool their kids.
I've nothing against private schools. But the idea of all schools being corporate or business model institutions leads to corporate and business model goals, which introduce a whole range of problems into the education system that would of course negatively affect those lower on the socioeconomic status ladder. They've already got it hard as it is.
Yeh you can always opt out if you feel strongly about it for whatever reason
No education should be privatised. You cant justify a capitalist system unless there is equal opportunity in education. Privatised schooling prevents equal opportunity.
Equal opportunity in education is an impossible ideal that shouldn't even be attempted. I'd prefer we seek best outcomes overall which requires the use of private schooling too.
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No private schools mean the wealthy, powerful and political have an investment in the quality of the public system. Two birds, one stone.
Personally I like the current system we have. Private schools should continue to receive an amount of public funding as they take pressure off the public system. Private schools are also better because the worst kids can be expelled.
Socioeconomic status of parents is linked to educational outcomes in children. It's also associated with social trust, personality, prosocial tendencies and other aspects of psychological wellbeing. Therefore public school performance and culture is inherently linked to location whereby schools in wealthier suburbs generally provide an environment more conducive to learning.
The 'out' for parents who live in regions with poor quality public schooling is to choose private schools. That's a choice I'm more than happy to fund.
Removing government funding for private schools would lead to the middle class missing out while it would barely put a dent in the riches of the truly wealthy.
- Nov 10, 2022
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Not many private schools are corporate. Mostly nfp.
I like kidders where the liberal party mps and associates profit
I like kidders where the liberal party mps and associates profit
Why is it impossible? Simply ban private schools
Easy fix to this, which is to provide more funding to rural schools. The private option only helps some of the kids leaving the others further behind.
Segregating the kids from high and low socio-economic status further erodes the education equality again on top of the funding provided for it.
We will never get perfect equal opportunity just like we will never eliminate car crashes. But that doesnt mean we don't strive to minimise unfairness as much as we can. Making seatbelts mandatory and banning drink driving above .05 are good policies despite the fact they will never eliminate all road deaths.
School funding will mitigate the effects, but it cannot fix the geographical-SES based inequalities that are inherent between overall student cohorts.
Separating students based on SES may even have some positive effects in reducing jealousy and bullying because one student has 'more' than another. While I don't know enough to say that's true, it seems a reasonable theory.
We already separate students based on academic performance in the public system through separate classes for more academic students and selective entry schools. Having private schools provides another option to move children to an environment more conducive to their learning.
I don't see how banning private schools or removing government funding will provide better overall mental health and educational outcomes to children, nor do I see it being a source of equal opportunity (for the reasons I've discussed).
Government funding of private schools is something I feel is beneficial and I'm unlikely to change my position on. It's also an issue that could potentially sway my voting intentions despite not affecting me in any personal capacity at this time.
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Just on the public schools are indoctrinating a generation of kids to be socialists meme - what a load of BS. My son goes to a public high school in one of the most left leaning suburbs in Australia and his biggest concern is when is Will Day coming back. Other than they are taught to treat everyone equally (what a horrid thought), there's very little political discussion at all. I do love the fact his bedroom looks like the United Nations pre match (boys always seem to be at our house before heading off to the MCG) and one of the kids he hangs out with his gay and no-one seems to give a damn - he's treated like all the other boys.
As for private, well my wife has relos that teach at a Christian college that are pretty much Bible literalists. They are forced to teach evolution as per the curriculum but they teach it under the guise of that's what the heathens believe - the real story is the Earth was created in six days (and on the seventh day he created Hulkamania if I remember my 80s wrestling promos clearly). I have a much bigger issue with this anti-science rubbish being taught in a school - preach it in a church but it should not be presented as education.
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