It's time to recognise how great this current team is

[Coops93]

When looking at the achievements of the team in the past 12 months their achievements are starting to stack up into what represents an era of greatness.

The framing around the team has made the response to this team feel Luke-warm at best. Former players in particular have been slamming the current team, criticising them for not having any legends around the team and not being happy they sacked their mate - which based on subsequent results you'd have to say was the correct call, as distasteful as it may have been -as well as saying they're soft or they're this or that. There's no doubt the reverence in which we all hold that era has caused the relationship with the current team to fracture given we hold their comments in such esteem.

Yet in the past few months they've won the test WC in England, retained the Ashes in England and won an ODI World Cup in India against an undefeated India in what were doctored conditions everyone knows are usually Australia's kryptonite.

I feel like we need to accept that this team is different to old Australian teams whether we like it or not (and the old players certainly don't), and the results are that it's lead to a year of unparalleled success. Coach boring and Captain Solar Panel have achieved more in 12 months than any other team ever has and that's an accomplishment that deserves to be celebrated.

 

[PhatBoy]

When looking at the achievements of the team in the past 12 months their achievements are starting to stack up into what represents an era of greatness.

The framing around the team has made the response to this team feel Luke-warm at best. Former players in particular have been slamming the current team, criticising them for not having any legends around the team and not being happy they sacked their mate - which based on subsequent results you'd have to say was the correct call, as distasteful as it may have been -as well as saying they're soft or they're this or that. There's no doubt the reverence in which we all hold that era has caused the relationship with the current team to fracture given we hold their comments in such esteem.

Yet in the past few months they've won the test WC in England, retained the Ashes in England and won an ODI World Cup in India against an undefeated India in what were doctored conditions everyone knows are usually Australia's kryptonite.

I feel like we need to accept that this team is different to old Australian teams whether we like it or not (and the old players certainly don't), and the results are that it's lead to a year of unparalleled success. Coach boring and Captain Solar Panel have achieved more in 12 months than any other team ever has and that's an accomplishment that deserves to be celebrated.

They’ve done awesome, you can only win what you have in front of you - and going back (not sure if you factored this in) you can add a t20 World Cup into that as well.

The only thing that will stop people from ‘appreciating’ it like they have past teams, aside from stupid petty shit like Cummins quite normal and understandable decision to take a stance on an issue he feels strongly about, is the fact that because cricket is the way it is: ie. it’s not like footy where greatness is decided over a 26-27 game period then you all f**k off for five months - greatness is usually an accumulated thing. Teams become great over periods of years.

In my lifetime there has been at most 3 genuinely great teams that have stood head and shoulders above the pack and even one of them - SA - gets ignored by most people because they were only great in tests.

 

[Coops93]

They’ve done awesome, you can only win what you have in front of you - and going back (not sure if you factored this in) you can add a t20 World Cup into that as well.

The only thing that will stop people from ‘appreciating’ it like they have past teams, aside from stupid petty s**t like Cummins quite normal and understandable decision to take a stance on an issue he feels strongly about, is the fact that because cricket is the way it is: ie. it’s not like footy where greatness is decided over a 26-27 game period then you all f**k off for five months - greatness is usually an accumulated thing. Teams become great over periods of years.

In my lifetime there has been at most 3 genuinely great teams that have stood head and shoulders above the pack and even one of them - SA - gets ignored by most people because they were only great in tests.

I did consider it, you can extend this era back a few years. Like you say the t20 world cup, but also the 4-0 ashes win at home and previous retaining of the Ashes in England.

It's quite a period of strength for a few years now that hasn't been appreciated. I think due the the rumblings in the camp with Langer around the players weren't overly happy despite the success, then post the fans & former players haven't been happy despite the success.

Take away all the peripheral stuff and it's been several years of greatness that's mostly gone underappreciated.

 

[PhatBoy]

I did consider it, you can extend this era back a few years. Like you say the t20 world cup, but also the 4-0 ashes win at home and previous retaining of the Ashes in England.

It's quite a period of strength for a few years now that hasn't been appreciated. I think due the the rumblings in the camp with Langer around the players weren't overly happy despite the success, then post the fans & former players haven't been happy despite the success.

Take away all the peripheral stuff and it's been several years of greatness that's mostly gone underappreciated.

The two home series losses to India and away defeats there (that’s no disgrace and the series there this year was a good effort), the draw in Sri Lanka who really are a rabble at the moment, mean a lot of the stuff before this current upsurge was sort of counteracted a bit.

The good is outweighing the bad by a pretty hefty margin now, and over a decent period for the foreseeable future I would think

 

[Coops93]

The two home series losses to India and away defeats there (that’s no disgrace and the series there this year was a good effort), the draw in Sri Lanka who really are a rabble at the moment, mean a lot of the stuff before this current upsurge was sort of counteracted a bit.

The good is outweighing the bad by a pretty hefty margin now, and over a decent period for the foreseeable future I would think

Agreed. For the good there was the bad on the other side, and that's perhaps where the internal issues showed. We could see the good was there, but for some reason it wasn't quite consistent enough. From what we've seen recently, the consistency is there and it's getting us results.

I could only imagine what the rooms would've been like with Langer as coach after the South African ODI series & 2 losses at the start of the World Cup. With this group it doesn't seem to have put any extra pressure on and if anything it brough out the best.

 

[PhatBoy]

Agreed. For the good there was the bad on the other side, and that's perhaps where the internal issues showed. We could see the good was there, but for some reason it wasn't quite consistent enough. From what we've seen recently, the consistency is there and it's getting us results.

I could only imagine what the rooms would've been like with Langer as coach after the South African ODI series & 2 losses at the start of the World Cup. With this group it doesn't seem to have put any extra pressure on and if anything it brough out the best.

Agreed, you kind of get the impression that hypothetically after the Afghanistan game if Australia lost, langer would have them doing shuttle runs and issuing public apologies and punishing themselves, but under this regime Cummins would have instead fronted up to the presser and shrugged his shoulders and made a joke about SA losing to the Dutch and said ‘at least we are still on track to make the semis’ and gotten over it straight away.

Even in someone like Mitchell Starc who has always had elements of his demeanour questioned even as far back as Warnie giving it to him, he’s had several different on field personas before. He’s tried being angry, tried being just passive. He actually laughed off some of his misfortune at times in this tournament and just turned around and got in with it: look how well he bowled in the two finals.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

This current Australian side feels comfortable and enjoying their cricket.

They do things their way and have some pretty damn good mental confidence.

Agreed, you kind of get the impression that hypothetically after the Afghanistan game if Australia lost, langer would have them doing shuttle runs and issuing public apologies and punishing themselves, but under this regime Cummins would have instead fronted up to the presser and shrugged his shoulders and made a joke about SA losing to the Dutch and said ‘at least we are still on track to make the semis’ and gotten over it straight away.

I feel more and more that Langer could not understand the players and on tour being around a guy who is intense all the time would piss anyone off.

This side is confident, but not arrogant, hard yet relaxed, Cricket is not everything for them.

 

[Westend]

Its been a fantastic achievement by this Aussie cricket team

before they where a good team now they are a great one

 

[cricketnut14]

Its been a fantastic achievement by this Aussie cricket team

before they where a good team now they are a great one

most of the test XI will end up in everyones 2nd XI of best aussies they've seen with smith and cummins as the 'A' graders.
it's still early in green and carey's career.

we were written off to win the WTC - having our 3 away series in the sub continent, so that's a massive tick.

under the pump to qualify for this cycle of the WTC because of penalty points, so we will see how good we really are.

the next big mission is to actually win a test series in both india and england.

 

[FreoGirl]

Mitch Marsh has made all the difference

 

[Westend]

Mitch Marsh has made all the difference

The move to the number three position has changed the dynamic of the white ball set up for Australia

T20 World Cup marsh was a monster at number three and has continued that form in the ODI format

Head Warner Marsh provides such power and dynamics at the top...oppostion bowlers/teams are on the Back foot immediately its great to see

 

[frankrizzo]

This current Australian side feels comfortable and enjoying their cricket.

They do things their way and have some pretty damn good mental confidence.


I feel more and more that Langer could not understand the players and on tour being around a guy who is intense all the time would piss anyone off.

This side is confident, but not arrogant, hard yet relaxed, Cricket is not everything for them.

Crazy thing is so many could never understand this wasnt cummins vs langer with other players as innocent bystanders cummins is clearly well liked and respected by his own generation of players they want him in charge they trust him they didnt want langer for another few years and knowing that it takes some amazing mental gymnastics to think that many professional cricketers must all be wrong when it comes to langer, it doesnt even mean langer is a bad bloke or bad coach but coaches like him as intense as they are will wear people down after years of that approach and there was nothing wrong with getting a fresh approach.

 

[frankrizzo]

the next big mission is to actually win a test series in both india and england.

I really cant see how we win in india, much better teams than this one haven't been able to do it, we just cant beat them in those conditions we have tried so many approaches with so many different groups and nothing works, im interested to see how bazball goes as much as we like to shit on england one place its certainly worth a try is india as nothing else works for any of us over there so why not just try bazball? worse thing that happens england get rolled in india which is what happens with standard test approach in india.

 

[Leeda]

I would like to thank the aussie team for their win.....I said they needed a push...and I fell over...

 

[onthehill24]

Its been a fantastic achievement by this Aussie cricket team

before they where a good team now they are a great one

Great teams win test series in England and india

 

[Coops93]

I really cant see how we win in india, much better teams than this one haven't been able to do it, we just cant beat them in those conditions we have tried so many approaches with so many different groups and nothing works, im interested to see how bazball goes as much as we like to s**t on england one place its certainly worth a try is india as nothing else works for any of us over there so why not just try bazball? worse thing that happens england get rolled in india which is what happens with standard test approach in india.

I think it's the biggest home ground advantage in the world of sport, it's got to be bigh on impossible. Given their political strength allowing them to get away with whatever they want these days as well as Indias depth and professionalism on field now it's infinitely harder than it used to be. They sack curators when they lose a test because the pitches mustn't have been cooked enough in Indias favour ffs, just look at the pitch they cooked up last tour their where 4/5s of it was watered and developed a certain way then just a certain length outside off to the left hander was intentionally squared off a left bone dry.

ICC just said nothing to see here, so even winning a test over their is a successful tour these days, and we were 1 abominable session away from winning 2!

 

[Coops93]

Crazy thing is so many could never understand this wasnt cummins vs langer with other players as innocent bystanders cummins is clearly well liked and respected by his own generation of players they want him in charge they trust him they didnt want langer for another few years and knowing that it takes some amazing mental gymnastics to think that many professional cricketers must all be wrong when it comes to langer, it doesnt even mean langer is a bad bloke or bad coach but coaches like him as intense as they are will wear people down after years of that approach and there was nothing wrong with getting a fresh approach.

I think people underestimated what happening during The Test documentary when they literally said to him "some blokes are afraid of you mate" and everyone just said they need to harden up. Suddenly Usman was dropped for the next 2 or 3 years... but rest assured it had nothing to do with the fact he stood up to the bloke that everyone was afraid of.

In retrospect it was a fairly early representation of the issues the team had but it largely went either unnoticed or joked about.

Look I think JL was the perfect "war time" leader. His approach was exactly what the group needed at that time and he was hugely responsible for rebuilding the image and standards of the team. However, he was just that, a "war time" leader, and often those types aren't that good outside of those periods. Once we were back to smooth sailing - relatively - his overly intense and combative style was so unnecessary and just lead to guys walking on egg-shells for no reason.

Similar to Paine as captain, I thought he was a great leader during that period, but it was clear by the end he'd sort of served his purpose and it was time to move on. CA were happy to knife him in the back, and while JL was treated differently, it was hardly a gracious way to handle things. Both guys deserved better exits than what they got, but in the end moving on was the right call on both counts.

 

[PhatBoy]

most of the test XI will end up in everyones 2nd XI of best aussies they've seen with smith and cummins as the 'A' graders.
it's still early in green and carey's career.

we were written off to win the WTC - having our 3 away series in the sub continent, so that's a massive tick.

under the pump to qualify for this cycle of the WTC because of penalty points, so we will see how good we really are.

the next big mission is to actually win a test series in both india and england.

I think it's the biggest home ground advantage in the world of sport, it's got to be bigh on impossible. Given their political strength allowing them to get away with whatever they want these days as well as Indias depth and professionalism on field now it's infinitely harder than it used to be. They sack curators when they lose a test because the pitches mustn't have been cooked enough in Indias favour ffs, just look at the pitch they cooked up last tour their where 4/5s of it was watered and developed a certain way then just a certain length outside off to the left hander was intentionally squared off a left bone dry.

ICC just said nothing to see here, so even winning a test over their is a successful tour these days, and we were 1 abominable session away from winning 2!

As people are finally starting to realise though, doing that doesn’t help them.

The best thing they can do is produce just normal Indian wickets and back their natural strengths and if they do that they will belt everyone, more or less.

 

[Coops93]

As people are finally starting to realise though, doing that doesn’t help them.

The best thing they can do is produce just normal Indian wickets and back their natural strengths and if they do that they will belt everyone, more or less.

I think the only time it has backfired into ultimately losing was the final in India, and even then it may not have if Australia did what everyone except themselves thought they would and batted first.

 

[The Passenger]

However, he was just that, a "war time" leader, and often those types aren't that good outside of those periods. Once we were back to smooth sailing - relatively - his overly intense and combative style was so unnecessary and just lead to guys walking on egg-shells for no reason.

Especially when you are coaching a national team (regardless of sport) rather than a club team.

I said elsewhere, but when coaching a national team the cattle you have is pretty much you're stuck with and any perceived "mental frailties"* that go with them. Maybe you pull a gem from nowhere (e.g. Labs) but that doesn't happen often.

When coaching a national team you have to mould yourself to the players much more than a club coach ever does. You can't exactly dump half the team and sign up better players.

The normally reserved Ian Redpath had a similar altercation with an ABC official in the leadup to the WSC days.

In 1975, plagued ridiculously poor compensation, a of the Australian cricketers had threatened to go on a strike during an Ashes Test. ACB secretary Alan Barnes told The Australian, “There are 500,000 cricketers who would love to play for Australia for nothing.” Redpath had grabbed Barnes by the shirt and tie and had pinned him against the wall, saying, “You b***y idiot, of course 500,000 people would play for nothing, but how b****y good would they be?”

* I think this group has proved they are mentally strong, hence the word perceived.

 

[Gough]

Redders was the last Australian player to play as an amateur too.

 

[Cursed Cat]

I am a very big fan of the current iteration of the Aussie cricket team under the captaincy of Patrick Cummins.

The Tim Paine/Justin Langer-lead faux-rehabilitation of the culture of Australian cricket was just head-butting The Line under a different guise; Cummins' Aussies have a more endearing authenticity with disparate characters like Khawaja and Head indicating a harmonious diversity of types in the ranks, with Cummins himself the marshaling force (and increasingly a tactical force too, as the culmination of the 2023 WC has proven).

But how do we define the ''current'' team?

Warner, Smith, Starc, Lyon and Hazlewood each now have long histories with Australian cricket; Cummins is a veteran himself but these guys predate him.

Perhaps the Steve Smith/Tim Paine/Pat Cummins years fall under the same period, despite the 3-tenured captaincies and a couple of coaches to boot.

A number of posters in this thread have written eloquently as to the significant achievements of the ''current'' Australian team, but in the interests of balance I think we need to acknowledge just how tough India have been as Test opponents over the past few years.

The fact remains that this current Aussie team lowered their colours to India in consecutive home Test series. They have held the Border-Gavaskar trophy for 8 years now.

And while we have been tantalisingly close to matching them on their home decks, they have ultimately had all the answers.

Yes we beat them in England for the WTC.

And the ODI WC just now passed should quite rightly be praised to the heavens; it was an epic tournament performance.

But those consecutive Indian Test series losses both at home and abroad is an asterix that needs to be noted. I feel as though a lot of Australian cricket supporters are loathe to cede Indian cricket their full regard, but to be toppled in home conditions twice running should have been a humbling experience. I know I grew to respect the names of Pujara, Kholi, Bumrah, Ashwin and Jadeja.

Sth Africa also had a period of ascendancy against the Smith/Paine Australians, again beating us on home soil.

England have troubled the current Australian side on English soil, no doubt about it. But it is to the credit of our County's cricketers that we have generally fought hard to attain at least near-parity. Imo we salvaged a drawn series in 2023. I can respect that grit though.

Australian cricket is in a healthy state; my prediction is that we might be on the cusp of even greater things to come.

Imo Andrew McDonald and Cummins have shown an aptitude for planning their approach to overseas Test series effectively; no, not everything has come off but a lot of it has. McDonald has had a lot of scrutiny and criticism but I think his input has been at worst benign and at best crucial in attaining some big results in the Pat Cummins era.

 

[Mr Meow]

I am a very big fan of the current iteration of the Aussie cricket team under the captaincy of Patrick Cummins.

The Tim Paine/Justin Langer-lead faux-rehabilitation of the culture of Australian cricket was just head-butting The Line under a different guise; Cummins' Aussies have a more endearing authenticity with disparate characters like Khawaja and Head indicating a harmonious diversity of types in the ranks, with Cummins himself the marshaling force (and increasingly a tactical force too, as the culmination of the 2023 WC has proven).

But how do we define the ''current'' team?

Warner, Smith, Starc, Lyon and Hazlewood each now have long histories with Australian cricket; Cummins is a veteran himself but these guys predate him.

Perhaps the Steve Smith/Tim Paine/Pat Cummins years fall under the same period, despite the 3-tenured captaincies and a couple of coaches to boot.

A number of posters in this thread have written eloquently as to the significant achievements of the ''current'' Australian team, but in the interests of balance I think we need to acknowledge just how tough India have been as Test opponents over the past few years.

The fact remains that this current Aussie team lowered their colours to India in consecutive home Test series. They have held the Border-Gavaskar trophy for 8 years now.

And while we have been tantalisingly close to matching them on their home decks, they have ultimately had all the answers.

Yes we beat them in England for the WTC.

And the ODI WC just now passed should quite rightly be praised to the heavens; it was an epic tournament performance.

But those consecutive Indian Test series losses both at home and abroad is an asterix that needs to be noted. I feel as though a lot of Australian cricket supporters are loathe to cede Indian cricket their full regard, but to be toppled in home conditions twice running should have been a humbling experience. I know I grew to respect the names of Pujara, Kholi, Bumrah, Ashwin and Jadeja.

Sth Africa also had a period of ascendancy against the Smith/Paine Australians, again beating us on home soil.

England have troubled the current Australian side on English soil, no doubt about it. But it is to the credit of our County's cricketers that we have generally fought hard to attain at least near-parity. Imo we salvaged a drawn series in 2023. I can respect that grit though.

Australian cricket is in a healthy state; my prediction is that we might be on the cusp of even greater things to come.

Imo Andrew McDonald and Cummins have shown an aptitude for planning their approach to overseas Test series effectively; no, not everything has come off but a lot of it has. McDonald has had a lot of scrutiny and criticism but I think his input has been at worst benign and at best crucial in attaining some big results in the Pat Cummins era.

You can't salvage a 5 match series from 2-0 up. England salvaged a drawn series, which in their mind was a moral victory, yet retaining the Ashes on away soil is closer to "job done" than failing to regain them at home.

 

[Cursed Cat]

You can't salvage a 5 match series from 2-0 up. England salvaged a drawn series, which in their mind was a moral victory, yet retaining the Ashes on away soil is closer to "job done" than failing to regain them at home.

Yes you can.

We were on the back foot in those final 3 Tests, in fact we had to fight tooth and nail to stay competitive in the entire series.

England's recent ODI WC woes have made for mirthful entertainment no doubt, but the fact remains they were highly competitive throughout the 2023 Ashes series.

I don't care what England's attitude is to squaring the series; we were in a position to win the Ashes on English soil, but the fact is that apart from 2-3 players we looked a little down on touch for much of that series.

Joe Root thinks man-for-man England are a better outfit than Australia but I reckon that's bullsh*t and we should probably have won the past two Ashes series on English soil.

But the 2023 English Test outfit were a pretty formidable opponent and we - in my opinion - were lucky not to completely cough up that early 2-0 lead and hand them back the urn.

I'm a big fan of the current Aussie set-up but I'm not so parochial that I can't give strong opposition credit for pushing us to be the best.

 

[Mr Meow]

Yes you can.

We were on the back foot in those final 3 Tests, in fact we had to fight tooth and nail to stay competitive in the entire series.

England's recent ODI WC woes have made for mirthful entertainment no doubt, but the fact remains they were highly competitive throughout the 2023 Ashes series.

I don't care what England's attitude is to squaring the series; we were in a position to win the Ashes on English soil, but the fact is that apart from 2-3 players we looked a little down on touch for much of that series.

Joe Root thinks man-for-man England are a better outfit than Australia but I reckon that's bullsh*t and we should probably have won the past two Ashes series on English soil.

But the 2023 English Test outfit were a pretty formidable opponent and we - in my opinion - were lucky not to completely cough up that early 2-0 lead and hand them back the urn.

I'm a big fan of the current Aussie set-up but I'm not so parochial that I can't give strong opposition credit for pushing us to be the best.

2-0 up as holders is the series done barring a miracle. Which they got in match 5 but not match 4.

They turned up when there was too much left to do. It wasn't a lady luck shining on us escape at all. You sound like a Pommy moral victory devotee.

The "you are just saying this out of blind parochialism" routine is a lazy cop out. Argue the points for their merit, don't accuse people of something you have zero idea applies.